BA Cabin Crew and American Visas
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Rainboe
1 - an American citizen shot and killed a British policeman in cold blood last year - that does not make all Amercians potential cold blooded killers and nor should we (or do we) treat them this way. The US citizen was convicted and Reid was convivted too, so all this proves is that both countries are not free of serious criminals
2- The Brits who were held at Guantanamo have not been convicted of any criminal activity to my knowledge, in fact they have not even been charged, so using this to support your argument seems naive to say the least - many would quote this incident as showing the US in a very bad light. Your comment about their names is despicable and racist IMHO
3- the reason that we did not have a WTC type incident was that UK domestic flight security was rather tighter than US domestic flight security and by the way, a substantial number of the victims were expat Brits
Punishing the innocent (i.e. this Visa process) is not smart and when you link it back to BA s profitability versus the state of the US competition, I think it is only natural that some wonder whether there is not a commercial motive, at least to some degree, behind the latest developments. Personally, I have no idea whether there is any substance in that line of thought.
If you wish to consider this view rampant anti Americanism, that's your privilege.
1 - an American citizen shot and killed a British policeman in cold blood last year - that does not make all Amercians potential cold blooded killers and nor should we (or do we) treat them this way. The US citizen was convicted and Reid was convivted too, so all this proves is that both countries are not free of serious criminals
2- The Brits who were held at Guantanamo have not been convicted of any criminal activity to my knowledge, in fact they have not even been charged, so using this to support your argument seems naive to say the least - many would quote this incident as showing the US in a very bad light. Your comment about their names is despicable and racist IMHO
3- the reason that we did not have a WTC type incident was that UK domestic flight security was rather tighter than US domestic flight security and by the way, a substantial number of the victims were expat Brits
Punishing the innocent (i.e. this Visa process) is not smart and when you link it back to BA s profitability versus the state of the US competition, I think it is only natural that some wonder whether there is not a commercial motive, at least to some degree, behind the latest developments. Personally, I have no idea whether there is any substance in that line of thought.
If you wish to consider this view rampant anti Americanism, that's your privilege.
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***WARNING***
Yet another thread where a few people are not able to understand that the debate is about crew visas for the US. This thread is NOT about TOURIST visas or anyone who is not aircrew. Also, it is not about US foreign policy in the middle east or anywhere else.
Yet again we have a few muppets who are unable to grasp the fundamentals of keeping the debate about the topic title. I've left a few of the borderline posts in, such as the stupid one about British passport holders who have committed crimes involving aviation and the suitable countered post about US passport holders being equally unreliable, if that's the way you choose to take the debate. Personally, I don't choose to have the debate follow that course as once again it just allows the thread to degenerate into the endless looping rants about the US and the Mid East. If you want to debate that, go and find yourself a website dedicated to it. This is for aircrew and aviation related issues.
Thanks for making my job here so enjoyable... NOT!
Yet again we have a few muppets who are unable to grasp the fundamentals of keeping the debate about the topic title. I've left a few of the borderline posts in, such as the stupid one about British passport holders who have committed crimes involving aviation and the suitable countered post about US passport holders being equally unreliable, if that's the way you choose to take the debate. Personally, I don't choose to have the debate follow that course as once again it just allows the thread to degenerate into the endless looping rants about the US and the Mid East. If you want to debate that, go and find yourself a website dedicated to it. This is for aircrew and aviation related issues.
Thanks for making my job here so enjoyable... NOT!
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Latvia,
At the risk of offending Danny....
I don't live in St Pierre any more (the weather as you have found is too horrible for a man working in Africa to want to go back there except on an occasional nostalgia trip!). I live in Europe but I work in Africa. For my company it is very difficult to get visas for our local pilots to go to America to carry out recurrent simulator training and it makes it a nightmare trying to do the planning for it. Even though we have local pilots who have visited many times it is more difficult for them than it used to be and the American embassy staff are often unfriendly and aggressive. It's almost as bad for those who want to visit UK - but this thread is not about that.
On the other hand getting visas to go to France is not usually a problem so going to use the Eurocopter simulator is easier (even thouigh it's not as good as the simulators we use in America IMHO). We aren't going to cancel any deal with Sikorsky, just not replace them with American aircraft. America will lose out, just a tiny bit, but multiplied by all the people like me and companies like ours, it can't be good for the American economy. I thougt it would be okay to get into America to do crew training under the visa waiver program as we're only flying simulators, but apparently that's not the case and anybody wanting to do any sort of flight training, whether on simulators or real aircraft needs a visa. My own experience at the American embassy was no problem. A bit of a wait as one gets at all embassies of places which large numbers of people need to visit and the official who interviewed me was quiet and polite - if only the actual experience of entering the United States itself were the same.
At the risk of offending Danny....
I don't live in St Pierre any more (the weather as you have found is too horrible for a man working in Africa to want to go back there except on an occasional nostalgia trip!). I live in Europe but I work in Africa. For my company it is very difficult to get visas for our local pilots to go to America to carry out recurrent simulator training and it makes it a nightmare trying to do the planning for it. Even though we have local pilots who have visited many times it is more difficult for them than it used to be and the American embassy staff are often unfriendly and aggressive. It's almost as bad for those who want to visit UK - but this thread is not about that.
On the other hand getting visas to go to France is not usually a problem so going to use the Eurocopter simulator is easier (even thouigh it's not as good as the simulators we use in America IMHO). We aren't going to cancel any deal with Sikorsky, just not replace them with American aircraft. America will lose out, just a tiny bit, but multiplied by all the people like me and companies like ours, it can't be good for the American economy. I thougt it would be okay to get into America to do crew training under the visa waiver program as we're only flying simulators, but apparently that's not the case and anybody wanting to do any sort of flight training, whether on simulators or real aircraft needs a visa. My own experience at the American embassy was no problem. A bit of a wait as one gets at all embassies of places which large numbers of people need to visit and the official who interviewed me was quiet and polite - if only the actual experience of entering the United States itself were the same.
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back on track
So just how do I renew my crew visa. I am based in Middle East, work freelance, and do need to visit USA as crew sometimes, and for recurrent often.
Do I need all extremities "printed", and is it try that FSI in PLB is the only place outside the USA I can do this.
Do I need to go to USA to be finger printed to be able to enter the USA. Chicken and Egg question.
Thanks, Bumz...
Do I need all extremities "printed", and is it try that FSI in PLB is the only place outside the USA I can do this.
Do I need to go to USA to be finger printed to be able to enter the USA. Chicken and Egg question.
Thanks, Bumz...
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Bumz_Rush,
You are talking about two different types of visa. You can obtain your "D" visa in the ME. But you cannot obtain the required fingerprinting for the TSA flight training approval.
Saudi Arabia has started issuing type ratings based on their own licence for the first time. For obvious reasons they were having immense problems getting crew training approvals.
Mutt.
You are talking about two different types of visa. You can obtain your "D" visa in the ME. But you cannot obtain the required fingerprinting for the TSA flight training approval.
Saudi Arabia has started issuing type ratings based on their own licence for the first time. For obvious reasons they were having immense problems getting crew training approvals.
Mutt.
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U.S. Visas
After all the bashing back and forth -- there will always be those who will seize the first opportunity to expound their political views -- the problem it would seem remains serious.
Pardon my ignorance, but are these flight crew visas to the U.S. for one trip, or are they good for an extended period of time. I assume that this does not just affect BA crews, but all crews internationally.
By the way, once a year I too have to stand patiently in line at the Latvian Immigration Department to renew my working residency visa in my U.S. passport. Not too much fun. You have my sympahties.
Pardon my ignorance, but are these flight crew visas to the U.S. for one trip, or are they good for an extended period of time. I assume that this does not just affect BA crews, but all crews internationally.
By the way, once a year I too have to stand patiently in line at the Latvian Immigration Department to renew my working residency visa in my U.S. passport. Not too much fun. You have my sympahties.
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The "D" visa requirement has existed for over 20 years, the only thing that has changed is the requirement for an interview before the issue of ALL visas.
Crews in the past, could send an airline courier with their passport/application, now they have to attend themselves.
Is that a good enough reason to scream that US crews should have visas?
Mutt.
Crews in the past, could send an airline courier with their passport/application, now they have to attend themselves.
Is that a good enough reason to scream that US crews should have visas?
Mutt.
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What I don't understand is why you have to go if it is a Visa Renewal...Surely, they know who you are from previous applications. Also, the joke of listing all countries visited in the last 10 yrs is a bit extreme. Do they think Ali terrorist is going to list the time he/she spent in a Libyan/Sudanese/Afghan terrorist training camp? Like most knee jerk reactions, i.e anti money laundering rules, they hit the man on the street , but have no effect on the real culprits.
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Mutt
IMHO yes, if taking a narrow perspective.
The effect of the interview is to turn a mild inconvenience into a major inconvenience.
Reciprocity is a reasonable viewpoint and the present arrrangements are asymmetric, favouring the US.
I see no valid argument why US air crew should not be required to attend and interview and hold a visa to visit the UK (as part of a general visa programme.)
However, taking a broader view, it may be that the UK Government are weighing up the value of tourist dollars (bearing in mind that the dollar is weak due to GWB policies) and deciding that no action is the best action, even though aircrew are inconvencienced.
If I were being very devious, I might instigate a new policy where US aircrew where required to submit to Scottish Disclosure and gain an airside pass for UK airports, of course visitng a British Embassy for a suitable interview
, but maybe I have spent too much time in France recently.
IMHO yes, if taking a narrow perspective.
The effect of the interview is to turn a mild inconvenience into a major inconvenience.
Reciprocity is a reasonable viewpoint and the present arrrangements are asymmetric, favouring the US.
I see no valid argument why US air crew should not be required to attend and interview and hold a visa to visit the UK (as part of a general visa programme.)
However, taking a broader view, it may be that the UK Government are weighing up the value of tourist dollars (bearing in mind that the dollar is weak due to GWB policies) and deciding that no action is the best action, even though aircrew are inconvencienced.
If I were being very devious, I might instigate a new policy where US aircrew where required to submit to Scottish Disclosure and gain an airside pass for UK airports, of course visitng a British Embassy for a suitable interview
, but maybe I have spent too much time in France recently.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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I fail to see why 'tit for tat' responses is going to help the situation of delays and difficulties at US Immigration. All it will do is not strike at the people who cause the problem, but at completely innocent airline US crews and passengers who will be the only people affected. If anything it will only escalate the problem rather than go towards finding a solution. There is a problem with US Immigration officials and officialdom- tell me again how making life hard for ordinary Americans will help?
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Make the Yanks get visas. Prohibit their access to crew channels in Europe. If this causes problems - who cares! Quid pro quo. There are other people in the World other than residents of the US!
Final Three Greens: I like that - We can't have naughty people on the ramp, can we!
Final Three Greens: I like that - We can't have naughty people on the ramp, can we!
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The thread is starting to turn again into Yank bashing territory!
Maybe all those of us involved in the British aviation industry should organise a delegation to the Houses of Parliament and seek an interview with our individual Constituency MP and demand that our case is taken up between the Foreign Office and the US and that the US Government should pay compensation to the airline industry for the financial losses incurred through flight cancellations.
That way, the innocent wouldn't get hurt and our government just might act democratically for a change!
(Mind you, if this was happening on French or Italian soil, I don't think they would be allowing US aeroplanes in/out of their airspace!)
Maybe all those of us involved in the British aviation industry should organise a delegation to the Houses of Parliament and seek an interview with our individual Constituency MP and demand that our case is taken up between the Foreign Office and the US and that the US Government should pay compensation to the airline industry for the financial losses incurred through flight cancellations.
That way, the innocent wouldn't get hurt and our government just might act democratically for a change!
(Mind you, if this was happening on French or Italian soil, I don't think they would be allowing US aeroplanes in/out of their airspace!)
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If it's any consolation to anybody, here in France it's the same problem to have your D visa renewed... But here it takes 2 days !! First day is for interview and second day is for visa issue. So for all of us who don't live in Paris, that means having to take a trip up there, pay for accomodation, etc etc and being greeted by less than sympathetic embassy employees who also b*** off for their lunch break.
A friend of mine had his visa refused despite him going for a renewal... had his previous us visa for over 10 years and for no reason whatsoever, new visa was refused. US embassy explanation: he has the same first and last name as somebody on their "black" list. He is a pilot who often flies to US and so now is grounded because of this, hasn't flown for over 2 months now as problem is still not solved. His boss (the owner of the private jet he works on) wants to fire him now 'cos he's "useless" to him without a US visa... Nice story eh ?
A friend of mine had his visa refused despite him going for a renewal... had his previous us visa for over 10 years and for no reason whatsoever, new visa was refused. US embassy explanation: he has the same first and last name as somebody on their "black" list. He is a pilot who often flies to US and so now is grounded because of this, hasn't flown for over 2 months now as problem is still not solved. His boss (the owner of the private jet he works on) wants to fire him now 'cos he's "useless" to him without a US visa... Nice story eh ?
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So the same and worse is happening in other countries. gtadxb I feel very sorry for your friend, this answers my earlier query to find out if it's happening in other countries too, seems it is with dire consequences for a few.
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For what it is worth I was at US Embassy, London for crew visa renewal on Friday.
In queue at 0710, through security just after eight and complete by 0855. Visa due for delivery to home tomorrow. No complaints.
Interview was 2 minutes and very friendly.
General advice - make sure you have read the application instructions, paperwork and photos are as required and GET THERE EARLY.
Queue builds up quickly after 0730.
In queue at 0710, through security just after eight and complete by 0855. Visa due for delivery to home tomorrow. No complaints.
Interview was 2 minutes and very friendly.
General advice - make sure you have read the application instructions, paperwork and photos are as required and GET THERE EARLY.
Queue builds up quickly after 0730.
Last edited by Cuillin; 14th Feb 2005 at 08:01.