BA Pilot's sex discrimination case. (Update: Now includes Tribunal's judgement)
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Female pilots
I sincerely hope that Jess winning her case does not adversly affect those of us women in our mid-twenties who are trying to get jobs.
Some of us have spent a fortune on training to get qualified, and have no intention of having sproggs.
I'm not sure Jess has done anything to ease sex descrimmination in the industry.
GQ
Some of us have spent a fortune on training to get qualified, and have no intention of having sproggs.
I'm not sure Jess has done anything to ease sex descrimmination in the industry.
GQ
Join Date: Aug 2002
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not living up to my name on this one!!!
This whole situation enrages me.
As a female pilot i can appreciate the desire to settle down and start a family, and the obvious difficulties our profession can place upon this. However we know what we are getting into when we chose this career.
Juggling this job and starting a family is something i don't plan on doing for a while but as a conscientious person i have put a lot of thought to, before starting down this path.
The government minister who was slated not too long ago for his statement that any sensible employer would not employ a woman of child bearing age, has his point proven here!
Aside from the issue of BA changing policy before/after her application for part-time the safety rules are there and she didn't meet the requirements. case closed.
She has done female pilots no favours. With the front page of BALPA log only a matter of months ago questioning/stating equality in the industry this can only serve to put more employers off.
I find it unbelievable how much time and money on both sides and in the courts has been wasted on this case for a futile victory as i hear she is now pregnant again.
If the case was on unfair maternity policies for the company then i could accept that, but a case against a short staffed company declining her request on currency and safety grounds should not have got this far.
This is just my view. I think its time feminists under any guise accepted we are not equal. Whilst we can perform to the same standards in the workplace etc there will always be the issue of pregnancy, childbirth and maternity leave which sets us apart from our male colleagues. We should be treated and paid as equals for the equal work that we do but when it comes to situations like this accept safety rulings or find a desk job.
All i can say is well done Jessica. I'm sure you've just made life a whole lot harder for the rest of us
As a female pilot i can appreciate the desire to settle down and start a family, and the obvious difficulties our profession can place upon this. However we know what we are getting into when we chose this career.
Juggling this job and starting a family is something i don't plan on doing for a while but as a conscientious person i have put a lot of thought to, before starting down this path.
The government minister who was slated not too long ago for his statement that any sensible employer would not employ a woman of child bearing age, has his point proven here!
Aside from the issue of BA changing policy before/after her application for part-time the safety rules are there and she didn't meet the requirements. case closed.
She has done female pilots no favours. With the front page of BALPA log only a matter of months ago questioning/stating equality in the industry this can only serve to put more employers off.
I find it unbelievable how much time and money on both sides and in the courts has been wasted on this case for a futile victory as i hear she is now pregnant again.
If the case was on unfair maternity policies for the company then i could accept that, but a case against a short staffed company declining her request on currency and safety grounds should not have got this far.
This is just my view. I think its time feminists under any guise accepted we are not equal. Whilst we can perform to the same standards in the workplace etc there will always be the issue of pregnancy, childbirth and maternity leave which sets us apart from our male colleagues. We should be treated and paid as equals for the equal work that we do but when it comes to situations like this accept safety rulings or find a desk job.
All i can say is well done Jessica. I'm sure you've just made life a whole lot harder for the rest of us
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I am in my mid-thirties,
worked full time for my company since 1998,
funded all my own flying training myself before I joined,
and would like to ask permission from everybody to start trying for a baby in a year's time. (just hope that all the ILSs I've been shooting haven't zapped ALL my eggs)
I can fly a desk while pregnant, so not to be too much of a waster and I guess, after seeing my sister-in-law giving birth, I will need a little time off work afterwards to just let my torn-open arse heal.
Then ideally I would like to go 50% for say 4 years, as my other half hasn't exactly volunteered to give up his time to look after said sprog.
Now: Do you think I'm beeing unreasonable?
After reading 25 pages of this I really wonder!
worked full time for my company since 1998,
funded all my own flying training myself before I joined,
and would like to ask permission from everybody to start trying for a baby in a year's time. (just hope that all the ILSs I've been shooting haven't zapped ALL my eggs)
I can fly a desk while pregnant, so not to be too much of a waster and I guess, after seeing my sister-in-law giving birth, I will need a little time off work afterwards to just let my torn-open arse heal.
Then ideally I would like to go 50% for say 4 years, as my other half hasn't exactly volunteered to give up his time to look after said sprog.
Now: Do you think I'm beeing unreasonable?
After reading 25 pages of this I really wonder!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I don't think you're being unreasonable sparkle.
If you meet your companys experience, and other, requirements to go 50% then good on you, take it!
I think the point is if you don't meet their published requirements, you don't go and sue them to get your way!
Good luck with the baby making! The practising's the fun bit!!
If you meet your companys experience, and other, requirements to go 50% then good on you, take it!
I think the point is if you don't meet their published requirements, you don't go and sue them to get your way!
Good luck with the baby making! The practising's the fun bit!!
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Part time pilots?
If, God forbid, the aircraft flown by the "part-time" pilot should prang, and pilot error was determined as a factor, where would the blame lie? With BA? With the pilot or with the industrial tribunal?
Sorry, I do think that flying is something where it is all or nothing, not part-time.
Sorry, I do think that flying is something where it is all or nothing, not part-time.
Paxing All Over The World
Your profile does not state how much experience you have of being a commercial pilot. When you have filled in that information, you may wish to comment again?
As I am not a pilot, I keep my trap shut on such matters. I advise you to be ready to defend your opinion.
Further, God has nothing to do with it. Whether you believe in him or not, aircraft rise and fall by the activities of humans alone.
As I am not a pilot, I keep my trap shut on such matters. I advise you to be ready to defend your opinion.
Further, God has nothing to do with it. Whether you believe in him or not, aircraft rise and fall by the activities of humans alone.
Sorry, I do think that flying is something where it is all or nothing, not part-time.
Join Date: May 1999
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The problem is, impartial, that certain large companies make up policy almost on a whim, and often with no real forethought, then try to justify it in retrospect when challenged.
The tribunal members, who you can guarantee are not stupid, have heard the best argument BA's barristers can present in considerably more detail than the misogynist ramblings on this forum and agreed with Jessica. I, for one, am pleased for her and for the whole industry. The 'don't rock the apple cart' view is a long term loser, some apple carts need to be overturned. Too many big companies need to be reminded that they can't just do what they like with their employees' lives.
sparkle, good on you!
The tribunal members, who you can guarantee are not stupid, have heard the best argument BA's barristers can present in considerably more detail than the misogynist ramblings on this forum and agreed with Jessica. I, for one, am pleased for her and for the whole industry. The 'don't rock the apple cart' view is a long term loser, some apple carts need to be overturned. Too many big companies need to be reminded that they can't just do what they like with their employees' lives.
sparkle, good on you!
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Part Time
No problems with part time pilots male or female....as has been mentioned many will do more flying than 'management' pilots. Of course I suspect that BA would contend that their 'management' pilots have a lot more hours behind them than this lady.
To be honest the real point is the crippling costs.....given the front end investment in training any pilot....who can blame the Company for wanting to make the most of its investment. I wonder if she could have afforded to work part time if she had had to pay for her own training??
To be honest the real point is the crippling costs.....given the front end investment in training any pilot....who can blame the Company for wanting to make the most of its investment. I wonder if she could have afforded to work part time if she had had to pay for her own training??
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I think you will find that "she" is on the BA senoirity list.
When her number comes up "she" will get a command course, irrespective of the fact that "she" will have half the experience of those around her.
Mind you, she may not even have half the experience by that time as it would seem "she" is pregnant again.
When her number comes up "she" will get a command course, irrespective of the fact that "she" will have half the experience of those around her.
Mind you, she may not even have half the experience by that time as it would seem "she" is pregnant again.
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She's now trying to shelve a substantial career because she doesn't like the hours she is doing - or her 280 mile round trip drive.
BA are appealing and i hope they win - i can't believe she won this case.
It is hardworking individuals who keep BA going ,and always have - not precious people who come in ,do 5 minutes work ,and then drag BA through the court and press because they suddenly don't like it.
I think she could at least waited until she had been here 5-7 years plus before taking on BA and this unjustifiable action.
Situations like this cost the company £'000s ,which in turn places more cost savings on the other hard pressed employees .... pure selfishness
BA are appealing and i hope they win - i can't believe she won this case.
It is hardworking individuals who keep BA going ,and always have - not precious people who come in ,do 5 minutes work ,and then drag BA through the court and press because they suddenly don't like it.
I think she could at least waited until she had been here 5-7 years plus before taking on BA and this unjustifiable action.
Situations like this cost the company £'000s ,which in turn places more cost savings on the other hard pressed employees .... pure selfishness
50% Working Schedule
My twp penny worth & it refers to all such like cases, not just this partricular one.
The Staff Member concerned wishes to work only 50% of the time, fine ok.
As the Company paid out 100% of the training costs at the outset, in return they are only going to achieve 50% productivity from the Staff Member.
Solution....Company says ok, we accept the ruling of the tribunal, but in view of my comments above, the Staff Member will repay the other 50% of her training costs back to the Company.
Seems fair to me!
The Staff Member concerned wishes to work only 50% of the time, fine ok.
As the Company paid out 100% of the training costs at the outset, in return they are only going to achieve 50% productivity from the Staff Member.
Solution....Company says ok, we accept the ruling of the tribunal, but in view of my comments above, the Staff Member will repay the other 50% of her training costs back to the Company.
Seems fair to me!
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This woman is a disgrace to our proffesion, she knew the rules before she became pregnant and that with her lack of experience she would not get 50% part time.
She has now wasted BALPA's money to for the tribunal and has now got pregnant again.
I think there is something seriously wrong with her decision making process and question wether she should be flying at all!
Don't get me wrong I'm really enjoy the lady pilots and look forward to flying with many of them, but why should this woman be given special treatment when us men have worked hard and missed our children growing up in the process.
I really object to my BALPA subs being wasted in this way!!!!!!!
rant over standing by for the incoming flack
She has now wasted BALPA's money to for the tribunal and has now got pregnant again.
I think there is something seriously wrong with her decision making process and question wether she should be flying at all!
Don't get me wrong I'm really enjoy the lady pilots and look forward to flying with many of them, but why should this woman be given special treatment when us men have worked hard and missed our children growing up in the process.
I really object to my BALPA subs being wasted in this way!!!!!!!
rant over standing by for the incoming flack
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unablereqnavperf
An excellent post.
There will be no incoming flack from this direction.
kaikohe76,
Valid point. A friend (F/O at the time) married a teacher from OZ who then joined him over here. She was committed to 10 years teaching there but only completed three. Before they would let he leave the country she had to pay back 70% of her training costs.
Anti-ice
To precis your post.... "pure selfishness" seems to sum it up perfectly.
An excellent post.
There will be no incoming flack from this direction.
kaikohe76,
Valid point. A friend (F/O at the time) married a teacher from OZ who then joined him over here. She was committed to 10 years teaching there but only completed three. Before they would let he leave the country she had to pay back 70% of her training costs.
Anti-ice
To precis your post.... "pure selfishness" seems to sum it up perfectly.
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unablereqnavperf
Well said.I understand that she has a husband who is a captain at BA.What an absolute disgrace that he (poor soul on 80K+ Pa) cannot support his wife or afford child care like the rest of the world does.
Theres rumoured to be in excess of 1200 cabin crew expecting at the moment.It must be an industry in itself trying to manage that lot.
There's even a diversity manager now (plus staff i presume)
I only hope that when the new Cheif Exec comes in he sorts out
the manpower mess BA has got itself into.
The world has truly gone mad.
Well said.I understand that she has a husband who is a captain at BA.What an absolute disgrace that he (poor soul on 80K+ Pa) cannot support his wife or afford child care like the rest of the world does.
Theres rumoured to be in excess of 1200 cabin crew expecting at the moment.It must be an industry in itself trying to manage that lot.
There's even a diversity manager now (plus staff i presume)
I only hope that when the new Cheif Exec comes in he sorts out
the manpower mess BA has got itself into.
The world has truly gone mad.