Forced to retire at 55
Join Date: Jul 2000
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You have my sympathy Newt but were you a member of BALPA and if so did you lobby for an increase in retirement age? Also if you are only 55 then on the IPA members Jobs page you will find plenty ofsuitable jobs available. Many outfits are crying out for 747,77,767,737,Airbus Captains as well as F/Os. Mark you, it does mean that you would have to join the IPA at a cost of £6.00 per month to view the pages concerned.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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As a BA trainer that delivers E & D it is annoying to see this use of the word 'forced'. As many have made clear that was the age of retirement on your contract which you or BALPA or CC unions fought for. There are many others within the industry that would like the age of retirement to be 55. As far as we have been told after 2006 those of 55 and over FC & CC will be able to remain in BA's employ till 60 providing they pass annual medical.
By 2010 it is hoped that the EU, Government (UK) directive will clarify exactly at what age people must retire. Whatever, that does not stop anyone retiring at the age stated on there joining contract.
Much of the hype is caused by the lack of direction from the UK government once again. Presently in the pilot community surely the ones that will lose out will be FO and SFO's.
Of other cobcern to your community is the fact that 'seniority' may also be deemed illegal as that in itself is presently 'discriminatory'.
The other issue is as to how that will effect pensions and where the monies will come from to support 35 plus years pensions with new joiners earning less and less.
By 2010 it is hoped that the EU, Government (UK) directive will clarify exactly at what age people must retire. Whatever, that does not stop anyone retiring at the age stated on there joining contract.
Much of the hype is caused by the lack of direction from the UK government once again. Presently in the pilot community surely the ones that will lose out will be FO and SFO's.
Of other cobcern to your community is the fact that 'seniority' may also be deemed illegal as that in itself is presently 'discriminatory'.
The other issue is as to how that will effect pensions and where the monies will come from to support 35 plus years pensions with new joiners earning less and less.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
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As a BA captain who will reach 55 in March 2006 after only 17 years in the company, may I make a few comments:
1. My contract does not actually stipulate an age at which I must retire. It uses the phrase " agreements from time to time in force".
The only document I have which does mention the CRA being 55 is the guide to the BA pension scheme which I was given on joining.
2. I knew this before I joined and I was not entirely happy about it but, given the political climate changes and demographic trends, I expected that it would change. On balance, I thought BA offered a better life-style than Britannia which is where I would have been otherwise. I took a gamble on CRA changing before I reached 55. It almost certainly is going to change but not soon enough for me, alas.
3. Whether or not CRA at 55 is a good thing depends entirely on one's length of service. Provided one's age at joining was 26 or less, "crystallisation" at 50 was an option and AVCs were started before the rule change in 1987, it is an unrepeatable, outstanding deal.
4. Those of us who do not have 20+ years in BA and who are members of the inferior NAPS scheme are not looking at a crock of gold, even if we have a pension from elsewhere. Many of us will need another job post 55. My sympathies are with newt.
1. My contract does not actually stipulate an age at which I must retire. It uses the phrase " agreements from time to time in force".
The only document I have which does mention the CRA being 55 is the guide to the BA pension scheme which I was given on joining.
2. I knew this before I joined and I was not entirely happy about it but, given the political climate changes and demographic trends, I expected that it would change. On balance, I thought BA offered a better life-style than Britannia which is where I would have been otherwise. I took a gamble on CRA changing before I reached 55. It almost certainly is going to change but not soon enough for me, alas.
3. Whether or not CRA at 55 is a good thing depends entirely on one's length of service. Provided one's age at joining was 26 or less, "crystallisation" at 50 was an option and AVCs were started before the rule change in 1987, it is an unrepeatable, outstanding deal.
4. Those of us who do not have 20+ years in BA and who are members of the inferior NAPS scheme are not looking at a crock of gold, even if we have a pension from elsewhere. Many of us will need another job post 55. My sympathies are with newt.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Gunner:
Are you saying that you got the job based on merit rather than seniority ??
Personally, I don't care which system (seniority or meritocracy) an airline uses to determine who gets promoted, I'm happy to have taken my chances with either method, but having set off with one system, I still think it's disingenuous of you to want to change it when you reach CRA.
If you were serious about changing it, you could have introduced it for pilots joining the Company on the new money purchase pension scheme.
If the young guns can't take the jobs away from the oldies by ability then they don't deserve them. which other industry has such draconian rules.
Personally, I don't care which system (seniority or meritocracy) an airline uses to determine who gets promoted, I'm happy to have taken my chances with either method, but having set off with one system, I still think it's disingenuous of you to want to change it when you reach CRA.
If you were serious about changing it, you could have introduced it for pilots joining the Company on the new money purchase pension scheme.
Thanks Wingswinger! Suspect you are in a similar position to myself. I did lobby hard with BALPA whilst I was a member but the whole argument was hijacked by younger members who apparently threatened to resign from the Union if it supported an increase in CRA. I just hope for their sakes that when the change to CRA is introduced it will not be compulsory. In the mean time do enjoy your time left in BA. Life after BA is fine and I enjoy being a landscape gardener!!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Funny how not all BA flying staff are required to retire at 55 though.
Ex Dan pilots and crew (including those on ex EOG contracts) don't have to retire until 60.
I met an ex B.Cal PSR who retired at 60 so I don't know if it's the same deal for ex B.Cal pilots?
To put real icing on the cake if you have an ex CFE contract at EFLGW and are crew (don't know if deal is same for the pilots), they all retire at 65!!!
But the question does occur to me sometimes....do you not want to give up work? Surely home life is not that bad? I want to go 75% and I've just turned 30. Retiring by 40 would be brilliant, working my socks off to 60 would not be my idea of fun. I want to spend time with my kids/wife etc and live life with them while I can still kick a ball or walk to the shops without a stick.
Just a thought though and I'm sure sitting at home with family, a glass of brandy and a good book isn't everyones idea of bliss.
Ex Dan pilots and crew (including those on ex EOG contracts) don't have to retire until 60.
I met an ex B.Cal PSR who retired at 60 so I don't know if it's the same deal for ex B.Cal pilots?
To put real icing on the cake if you have an ex CFE contract at EFLGW and are crew (don't know if deal is same for the pilots), they all retire at 65!!!
But the question does occur to me sometimes....do you not want to give up work? Surely home life is not that bad? I want to go 75% and I've just turned 30. Retiring by 40 would be brilliant, working my socks off to 60 would not be my idea of fun. I want to spend time with my kids/wife etc and live life with them while I can still kick a ball or walk to the shops without a stick.
Just a thought though and I'm sure sitting at home with family, a glass of brandy and a good book isn't everyones idea of bliss.
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My understanding (This is a rumour network after all) that BA are reviewing the situation, and the 55 retirement age may be extended in the future. IF it is (A big IF) Pilots will be able to continue flying, at the same rank, AND draw their Pension which is payable at 55. Is that a deal or what.?
How about a confirmation from somebody closer to Fort Fumble -Waterside.?
How about a confirmation from somebody closer to Fort Fumble -Waterside.?
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It is interesting to contrast the title of this thread with an item in todays (UK) BBC evening news, "Health workers to be forced to work until 65"
At present, staff in the National Health Service (NHS) retire at age 60 which they regard as a hard fought for privilege. They are up in arms and considering strike action over proposals which would see this age increased.
At present, staff in the National Health Service (NHS) retire at age 60 which they regard as a hard fought for privilege. They are up in arms and considering strike action over proposals which would see this age increased.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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I don't know if this is really an appropriate time to bring this up but how exactly would a merit system work in such an industry.
I will freely admit that there are some outstanding operators and also a few that sometimes have to work much harder to come up to scartch. However the vast majority are all within the same skill level. BA operate a points scoring system for checks and I would hedge my bets that a survey of the average would put 80-90% of us in the same boat.
That aside the thought of flying with people older than my grandad really scares me!!(just kidding)
I will freely admit that there are some outstanding operators and also a few that sometimes have to work much harder to come up to scartch. However the vast majority are all within the same skill level. BA operate a points scoring system for checks and I would hedge my bets that a survey of the average would put 80-90% of us in the same boat.
That aside the thought of flying with people older than my grandad really scares me!!(just kidding)
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Over 55
And yet many would not hesitate to climb on a train with a driver of 60 who rarely, if ever, undergoes any kind of medical let alone a 6 monthly aircrew medical; or perhaps a bus driver who has NEVER had a medical; or then there is the taxi driver who hasnt even got a licence (except a TV licence!) . . .
Think about it!.....
Think about it!.....
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If I'm 55 and they want me to retire, offer me a good pension, I'm out on the first thing smoking, show me the way to the golf course, have a cold beer waiting when I'm through 18, life couldn't be better. Sign me up boys.
Controversial, moi?
And yet many would not hesitate to climb on a train with a driver of 60 who rarely, if ever, undergoes any kind of medical let alone a 6 monthly aircrew medical; or perhaps a bus driver who has NEVER had a medical
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It's funny how the government statements on pensions are all worded in the language of fighting discrimination. Unfortunately it is nothing to do with that. The simple fact is they need to FORCE (deliberate choice of word) people to work longer because there is not enough cash in the pensions pot. Part of the reason is demographic -folks living longer, which is not the govt's fault, and part due to the loss of confidence in pensions caused by, amongst other things, Gordon Brown's (UK chancellor) huge tax raid on pension funds. Either way it's nothing to do with equal rights for older people, however it may be dressed up.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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That aside the thought of flying with people older than my grandad really scares me!!(just kidding)
)
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BOAC
Mike,
0nly 10 years younger than your son! you should be so lucky, I've flown with them 20 years younger than mine.
I was lucky enough to fly until I was 65, and enjoyed every minute of it.
Mike,
0nly 10 years younger than your son! you should be so lucky, I've flown with them 20 years younger than mine.
I was lucky enough to fly until I was 65, and enjoyed every minute of it.
