Ryanair: 100 new aircraft, 800 new pilots

[high & fast]

When I used to work for the Irish state carrier there was a lot of slagging off reference Ryanair. They said they would go bust in a year. That was in 1994. Oh how wrong you can be! Ryanair has gone from strength to strength and we have to respect them as a growing business force in European air travel. It's time to stop putting them down and to actually learn from their success. How panicked the Aer Lingus pilots must feel at the moment. Facing a strike situation whilst their rivals blossom in these hard times. It's time the state airline's pilots stopped pretending about their redundancy package, working conditions, etc., and started thinking about the long term future of their company.

[PINK]

O'Leary is a dreadful man that postures according to press perception on the day. If anybody believes that he has the capability to pull off that type of order . . . . I seem to remember similar chest beating 6/12 months ago. Stelios does the same sort of rubbish every 3 months or so. Relax guys. All this guy is about is devaluing our job into nothing more than bus drivers and if he could get away with it he would pay us bus drivers money. Steer clear my friends, O'leary is an anogram for dodgy irish cowboy.

[aviatorwrld]

Someone asked about ILFC and GECAS...whats the story there?

. .And on another note, I would not rule out the potential for a Boeing and Easy Jet deal just yet.

<img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[evolante]

Aviatorwrld - T'was I who asked many posts back about ILFC/GECAS but sadly the question got buried under the usual f****** mudslinging that arises whenever for example Ryanair or the Guvnor's names are mentioned.

***LETS STICK TO RUMOURS AND NEWS GUYS***

I ask again "Who will be funding the 100 x B737-800 deliveries???"

[evolante]

Looks like I've found (part) of the answer to my question:-

Ryanair is playing down the impact of the scope of today’s aircraft order - the actual price of which neither party is revealing - on its financial position. It insists it is consistent with the growth already enjoyed by the airline and that the cash-rich company has the resources to fund the transaction - pointing to $700 million in the bank.

“We are funding 15% of the purchase price and that is already in our balance sheet,” says O’Leary. The remainder of the financing, as was the case with its existing 737-800 purchases from Boeing, will be arranged with loans at competitive rates thanks to US Eximbank loan guarantees.

“There has never been a better time to do aircraft financing. Debt will be significantly higher,” he concedes, but notes, “It will be lower then the aircraft value and cash. Our cash balance has consistently risen faster than our debt. We are very well financed.”. .(Extract from Air Transport Intelligence Repport 25 January)

[Groundloop]

Truthseeker, 100 aircraft delivered over 8 years is just over 12 aircraft per year. I think Mr Boeing has enough capacity to handle other large orders on the 737 line at the same time. If EasyJet go for more 737s delivery will not be a problem.

[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: Groundloop ]</p>

[Luke SkyToddler]

I'll tell you how he's funding them ... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

800 x £50 charge to submit your CV = £40,000

800 x £150 charge for a sim ride = £120,000

800 x £15,000 charge for a type rating = £12,000,000

800 x F/O's working for a lower basic wage than Mcdonalds and no sector pay = a LOT of money <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[highlandman]

I am very surprise to see that Ryanair still manage to find some pilots. I can understand that inexperience pilot looking for there first job are willing to pay for the different fees. But I find OUTRAGEOUS that they also have to pay for the type rating and are afterward on a lower salary for 2 years. I would be ASHAMED to work for this company and it is because of this type of thinking that one day pilots will be pay less than a bus driver. (nothing against bus drivers!). .My guess is that the next move of Ryanair will be to ask the new guys to fly for free for one year!!! WHY NOT. Where is it going to stop?? Where are the unions??? <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[sky9]

One way to fund the purchase is to buy the aircraft at a discount, sell them to banks at the full price, then lease them back.. .Result: Instant profit on the balance sheet. . .Air Europe did something similar years ago using Finance Leasing over 4 years followed by a sale and leaseback. BA did a buy and leaseback in the recent past.

Air Enron here we come. . .BTW Who's your accountant?

[Collibri]

Highlandman ,

Totaly correct and by the way the fundings that F/O's made to pay there own type rating is a complete double benifit for Ryanair because it is the Belgium governement who pays their type rating.. .Surprised???. .Anything is possible in this world today.

<img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Fonck]

HighlandMan,

That's a good one ! Some airlines did it in the same way, a couple of years ago ... and went on bankrupcy, like Air Liberte in France. Or lost the contracts, like Atlas in the UK.. .You are perfectly right : WHERE ARE THE UNIONS ?

Sky9,

Can you really believe that today, any banker will buy an airplane, and lease it to a lowcost operator ?

Cheers,

--------------------------------------------------. .Look through the window <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[maxalt]

Highlandman...."Where are the unions?"

The answer is that O'Leary sacked them...and we stood by and let it happen.

Then BALPA tried to establish a constituency...and they were rejected by us.

Now the local group of IALPA in Aer Lingus is under final attack by their management, and if they lost their battle then the executive of IALPA will be dissolved.

There will then be no pilot unions whatever in Dublin, which is exactly what MOL and ALT management are praying for.

If you think things are bad now...you ain't seen nothing like whats gonna happen then. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Red-liner]

BillyFish2,

I think you will find that individuals like FlyingIrishman and myself will probably agree with statements such as MOL being a bit of a ********, that when it came to the formation of pilots unions that the pilot body generally showed the spinal attributes of a jellyfish and that when it comes to customer service Ryanair does leave a bit of a bitter taste in the mouth. In other words there wouldn't be to much argument about statements that are at least loosely based on the truth.

However, Ryanair bashing has become quite popular and we have had to put up with crap such as a passenger paying £20 for a sandwich, passengers complaining that they were delayed for legitimate safety reasons, passengers complaining that after having spent a whole £30-£40 quid for a return ticket to Europe there happened to be a distinct shortage of caviar and champers when they got on board and the latest being the 737-200 with more than 130 seats.

Maybe now you have some idea as to why the occassional short fuse is displayed in this forum.

With regard to your latest post I don't think you will find row26 on a 200 so you must have been on an 800 or another airline entirely (Ryanair have the navy tail with the yellow harp on it).

To conclude, I also read your profile and saw that you are and enginer (engineer????) and I'm fairly certain that an engineer should be able to tell the difference between a 200 and an 800. Please tell me that you work for the green guys in Dublin so that I may sleep easy at nights. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[ElNino]

Looks like plenty of the new 73's could be Germany based:

Ryanair reportedly in talks with German airports

Last updated: 25-01-02, 11:05

Ryanair has been quoted as saying the firm is talking to eight German airports about expanding its attack on rival Lufthansa's home market.

"We want to expand strongly in this market and are currently negotiating with eight German airports," Ryanair chief executive Mr Michael O'Leary told a German news agency.

Ryanair has said in the past it wanted to fly to four or five German airports next year compared to just two destinations now and was particularly looking at southern Germany and the Berlin region. It has said it aims to begin German domestic flights in 2003.

The remarks come as Lufthansa fights a court battle against Ryanair, Europe's biggest budget airline, in a bid to prevent the Irish firm from using the expression "Frankfurt-Hahn" in its promotion campaign for its German service.

Hahn is located some 60 miles from Frankfurt, and Lufthansa has argued Ryanair is misleading customers.

Mr O'Leary was also quoted as saying an order of 100 new Boeing 737s, placed yesterday, would mean employing an additional 800 pilots, 2,000 cabin crew and 500 engineers.

In an effort to counter Ryanair's rapid assault on the German market, national carrier Lufthansa said earlier this week it may consider launching a budget airline.

But Mr O'Leary is not unduly concerned. "The sooner the better. Ryanair will be bigger than Lufthansa in six years' time," he was quoted as saying.

from Ireland.com

[Scottie]

Gee, they'll give a degree to anyone these days <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Scottie BSc Hons (lower division) <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Gaza]

Love him or loathe him, MOL is a very astute businessman. He has got a great price from Boeing becasue they are in the 5hit and need to keep the line working. MOL also knows that in a year or so demand for new aircraft will pick-up. At that time don't be surprised to see him selling some of his options at a very tidy profit.

[Red-liner]

Billy my boy,

Your direct quote was "Ryanair have seats for a lot more than 130 on the 732's I've been on" so please let's not try and pass the buck on to the Irish Times now. You say you claim to know the difference between a 732 and a 738 but your above statement clearly proves that it isn't so.

By the way congrats on your first class honours degree, I last saw one of them in a cracker I pulled last Christmas.

[lgtjanssen]

I've one question does this new order replace the previous order of 45 new B737-800 or is it an addition to the previous order? Ryanair reports that delivery starts in 2002. However, from the previous order there are still 7 to delivered in 2002 and at least 2 in 2003 and more later. Moreover this order (the previous order) was said to be the replacement order for the B737-200 and now this order is the replacemnet order.

I'm beginning to get the feeling that the number 100 consists of both renegotiated orders and "real new" orders.

[Capt PPRuNe]

Just thought I'd point the protagonists in this thread, the ones who would rather throw insults at each other in public (must be an ego thing) rather than by email, to the closing post in the <a href="http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=017491&p=2" target="_blank">Fun and games at Schipol</a> thread before this one goes the same way.

Would all the 'enthusiasts' that want to argue over how many less rivets there are between a 200 and an NG or whatever please do everyone a favour and start a thread about it in the Tech log forum. Try and stick to the topic and if someone posts something that you are not happy with please go and purchase a dictionary and a thesaurus and post a response that would pass as coming from someone with a bit more than a kindergarden diploma!. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[interested]

Tsk tsk, Skipper [quote]purchase a dictionary and a thesaurus and post a response that would pass as coming from someone with a bit more than a kindergarden diploma!<hr></blockquote>

I've just checked out my versions of the purchases you suggest and I respectfully submit that you were so hot under the collar that you have mis-spelt the word kindergarten. Bad show, Skipper. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">