Squawking Ident
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 76
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From: UK
Sqwauking Indent
Will pilots please STOP sqwauking INDENT on making your initial call and first contact with LONDON ATC sectors! You may think it's all routine and that you're being helpful, but if you do so you will invalidate the sequence we are expected to follow to positively indentify new contacts. We have MANY ident pulses going off all over the radar screen from aircraft on different sectors and we must be sure that YOU are the one who has selected that code AND is sqwauking ident coming onto our frequency. Please wait to be asked to sqwauk INDENT. Many thanks.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 12
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From: UK
Finally somebody picking up on that.
Always thought: "wise guy, squawking w/o being asked"; must be so annoying.
also there's the guys who barge onto a new frequency w/o listening out first, trampling all over others. What's wrong with waiting a second or two, before you give your whole spiel?
Always thought: "wise guy, squawking w/o being asked"; must be so annoying.
also there's the guys who barge onto a new frequency w/o listening out first, trampling all over others. What's wrong with waiting a second or two, before you give your whole spiel?
stilljustanothernumber
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 624
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From: the night sky
Probably because a few weeks ago a LATCC controller said on this forum, "don't worry if you can't get a word in when you arrive in my sector, just ident to let me know your still OK" or something to that effect.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 1997
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 3,231
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From: Europe
Oh you bunch of pedants !!!
(PS it's 'squawking' not 'sqwauking')
There are ways around that one. You let them level off and then once they have made that level check you clear them further and tell them if they'd given you all the info on first call then they could have had continuous climb/descent
(PS it's 'squawking' not 'sqwauking')
I have a bigger problem with pilots who don't give me the passing altitude or who check in with only the callsign...
ex-Tanker
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 907
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From: Luton Beds UK
I am surprised to hear that pilots squawk anything new. least of all ident, without orders - sounds like a very bad and non - standard habit if it is really happening.
Maybe a visit to the ATC room is in order...
FC
Maybe a visit to the ATC room is in order...
FC
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
180 too fower,
The problem with that is :
1) It is an ATC SSR instruction and therefore should be read back.
2) If it doesn't work the controller doesn't know if you didn't hear the instruction or if the facility is not operating.
The problem with that is :
1) It is an ATC SSR instruction and therefore should be read back.
2) If it doesn't work the controller doesn't know if you didn't hear the instruction or if the facility is not operating.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 155
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For what it is worth, if an aircraft tells me his callsign and idents and it is an aircraft I am expecting, then I am quite happy.
I believe that the main reason for the ident is so that the computer can find the aircraft and update all its bits and pieces.
If we say it it keeps SRG happy.
I think that if an aircraft uses a callsign that I see on the radar using code/callsign, then that is good enough for an ident.
No doubt lots of Controllers are now going to disagree with me.
Pilots, on first call please give your current altitude so that I can verify your mode 'C'
I believe that the main reason for the ident is so that the computer can find the aircraft and update all its bits and pieces.
If we say it it keeps SRG happy.
I think that if an aircraft uses a callsign that I see on the radar using code/callsign, then that is good enough for an ident.
No doubt lots of Controllers are now going to disagree with me.
Pilots, on first call please give your current altitude so that I can verify your mode 'C'
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Cambridge
Hi all,
Do you always want a passing altitude/level when we check in?
I believe there is this idea that you only give your passing level when youre checking in to a new area for the first time. eg London to Maastricht or vs. I just like this clarified.
Thanks
Do you always want a passing altitude/level when we check in?
I believe there is this idea that you only give your passing level when youre checking in to a new area for the first time. eg London to Maastricht or vs. I just like this clarified.
Thanks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4
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From: UK
...and did you know that the 'ident' goes off when you release your finger off the button...not when it is initially pressed.
Have seen some pilots give ATC a really 'loooonnnnnnggggg' ident when in actual fact they have not given one at all because they are holding on to the button.
Have seen some pilots give ATC a really 'loooonnnnnnggggg' ident when in actual fact they have not given one at all because they are holding on to the button.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
For a very long time...
...mentioning passing altitude when contacting a new sector controller has NOT been an ICAO requirement, and IF the new controller wants this information, the previous controller should have said so in the first place, when he issued a frequency change.
It would indeed appear that some ATC folks are not all that familiar with ICAO procedures....UK folks in particular.
In addition, the new controller can positively see the passing altitude now, as all transponders in use by large aircraft have this facility...Charlie mode.
So, ATC folks, get your knickers out of a twist.
Pilots have enough problems trying to read the newspaper without being bothered all the time...
PS:
Heard by yours truly many years ago, on the LAX ground control freq:
Clipper 56, contact ground 121.6
(as he was taxying northbound on runway 34...yes, I told you this was a looog time ago)
PA56: Hey ground, why do we have to change freqs so much, it interrupts our ah...reading Playboy.
Ground: You are a dirty old man.
PA56: Yes, we are all old enough up here, and she ain't bad looking either.
Ground: Ah...no comment, but can you bring it up to the tower so we can all have a look?
PA56: Positively NO.
From another acft:
Not only old, stingy as well.
It would indeed appear that some ATC folks are not all that familiar with ICAO procedures....UK folks in particular.
In addition, the new controller can positively see the passing altitude now, as all transponders in use by large aircraft have this facility...Charlie mode.
So, ATC folks, get your knickers out of a twist.
Pilots have enough problems trying to read the newspaper without being bothered all the time...
PS:
Heard by yours truly many years ago, on the LAX ground control freq:
Clipper 56, contact ground 121.6
(as he was taxying northbound on runway 34...yes, I told you this was a looog time ago)
PA56: Hey ground, why do we have to change freqs so much, it interrupts our ah...reading Playboy.
Ground: You are a dirty old man.
PA56: Yes, we are all old enough up here, and she ain't bad looking either.
Ground: Ah...no comment, but can you bring it up to the tower so we can all have a look?
PA56: Positively NO.
From another acft:
Not only old, stingy as well.
Last edited by 411A; 28th November 2004 at 02:37.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 172
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From: UK
Of course, the whole *point* of reporting your passing altitude/flight level is to *verify* that your Mode C information that the controller sees is correct! It would be a bit of a problem, expecially in these days of RVSM if it was complete garbage, wouldn't it? Not likely, I know, but it's doing the little things like this that could save our necks one day when the 'not likely' occurs.