Channex selling selling F27's,crews & engs as a package !!.
I Have Control
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Vindicated
Phew! For a few years now, I thought that leaving the Channex F-27 fleet for pastures new might have been a mistake. Evidently not. Good luck to all concerned with the F-27 operation. (I'm sure Trubs had nothing to do with this move)
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The decision to downsize / dispose of the F27 fleet was made by PM three years or so ago following a spate of engine burnouts which wiped out that years profits. Despite the crews getting wind of this plan they were always bullshi**ed by management who reiterated the fleet's "long term future". In the background of course another agenda was being followed. Many were unconvinced and left, leaving only the most loyal (and new) to receive the inevitable shaf*ing. The company is now focussed on the 737 operation (Channex and Jet2) with the A300 fleet and BOH HQ looking increasingly isolated!
Just a numbered other
I'm still having trouble understanding the nuts and bolts of this deal.
Since slavery was outlawed, it is not possible, surely, to sell your employees. Was there an ultimatum, go or be made redundant? Are there mandatory base / salary changes afoot? Where the chosen few offered the 737?
Seeems mighty fishy to me.
Since slavery was outlawed, it is not possible, surely, to sell your employees. Was there an ultimatum, go or be made redundant? Are there mandatory base / salary changes afoot? Where the chosen few offered the 737?
Seeems mighty fishy to me.
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What is the problem?
I really do not understand what the fuss is all about??
Channel Express has simply sold the F27 division of the company as a going concern. Companies and divisions are being bought and sold constantly in other industries.
The employees are being kept on at the same salary, and (by my understanding) at broadly similar working conditions. If they were all made to take a paycut and move to Siberia - then I would fully agree with the most vocal challengers of this decision.
I am sure that there are some people disappointed that they are no longer working for the Dart group / Channel Express, who had secretly been hoping to move up to 737's. For them it is indeed bad luck - but as others have already said, would they have preferred for Channel Express to simply close down the F27 division when it no longer made (enough) profit??
The very best of luck to all involved.
Channel Express has simply sold the F27 division of the company as a going concern. Companies and divisions are being bought and sold constantly in other industries.
The employees are being kept on at the same salary, and (by my understanding) at broadly similar working conditions. If they were all made to take a paycut and move to Siberia - then I would fully agree with the most vocal challengers of this decision.
I am sure that there are some people disappointed that they are no longer working for the Dart group / Channel Express, who had secretly been hoping to move up to 737's. For them it is indeed bad luck - but as others have already said, would they have preferred for Channel Express to simply close down the F27 division when it no longer made (enough) profit??
The very best of luck to all involved.
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The problem is the F27 crews are facing redundancy for Christmas. Even though the company are still hiring outside pilots for Jet2. For Jet2 read Channel Express, they are the same company, those pilots will get shafted in time.
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Eureka- and Jet-,
I don't normally get steamed up on these pages but I have to infer that you two are either Dart Group management or have no understanding of people and employment in general or the aviation industry at all;
When people join a company, they very often have expectations of a career path available. It is factoring this into their decision to join at all, together with discussion of the prospects at interview (and well beyond) which can make one accept an unglamorous position 'temporarily' in the hope of 'jam tomorrow'. Unilaterally withdrawing that prospect subsequently is fundamentally dishonest. Furthermore, when a company employs someone, like it or not, that company also accepts a responsibility for that that person's wellbeing - if you don't agree, I suggest you look at the law, especiallly 'TUPE', quite apart from any moral ehthos you may have (although, presumably, you two are the kind of self-centred "I'm all right, Jack"-ers on whom one would not normally pee were you to self combust). The alternative is a dog-eat-dog market-place inhabited by mercenaries.
The fact that a deal may be legal - knowing PM, you may be sure that it is - does not make it honest, decent or right.
Neither, ultimately, is it good business beyond the immediate bottom line. And if you don't believe that, look at this thread and then imagine what's going on in Channex crew rooms up and down the country.
I can only hope that you were just trying to stir things: if so, I've bitten, you win. If not, God help you.
I don't normally get steamed up on these pages but I have to infer that you two are either Dart Group management or have no understanding of people and employment in general or the aviation industry at all;
When people join a company, they very often have expectations of a career path available. It is factoring this into their decision to join at all, together with discussion of the prospects at interview (and well beyond) which can make one accept an unglamorous position 'temporarily' in the hope of 'jam tomorrow'. Unilaterally withdrawing that prospect subsequently is fundamentally dishonest. Furthermore, when a company employs someone, like it or not, that company also accepts a responsibility for that that person's wellbeing - if you don't agree, I suggest you look at the law, especiallly 'TUPE', quite apart from any moral ehthos you may have (although, presumably, you two are the kind of self-centred "I'm all right, Jack"-ers on whom one would not normally pee were you to self combust). The alternative is a dog-eat-dog market-place inhabited by mercenaries.
The fact that a deal may be legal - knowing PM, you may be sure that it is - does not make it honest, decent or right.
Neither, ultimately, is it good business beyond the immediate bottom line. And if you don't believe that, look at this thread and then imagine what's going on in Channex crew rooms up and down the country.
I can only hope that you were just trying to stir things: if so, I've bitten, you win. If not, God help you.
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Dart Group Management - Nope sorry to disappoint you.
No understanding of people, employment or aviation industry - Actually I do, but you wouldn't believe me regardless.
Quote:
When people join a company, they very often have expectations of a career path available.
I agree, but everbody knows that situations change and that there is no guarantee that this expectation can be realised. As I said in my original posting, the only alternative for Channel Express would probably have been to close the F27 division down.
Quote:
when a company employs someone, like it or not, that company also accepts a responsibility for that that person's wellbeing
In my opinion - that is exactly what Channel express have done by selling the division, rather than closing it down.
Quote:
(although, presumably, you two are the kind of self-centred "I'm all right, Jack"-ers on whom one would not normally pee were you to self combust).
Thanks - You seem like a really nice person too.
No understanding of people, employment or aviation industry - Actually I do, but you wouldn't believe me regardless.
Quote:
When people join a company, they very often have expectations of a career path available.
I agree, but everbody knows that situations change and that there is no guarantee that this expectation can be realised. As I said in my original posting, the only alternative for Channel Express would probably have been to close the F27 division down.
Quote:
when a company employs someone, like it or not, that company also accepts a responsibility for that that person's wellbeing
In my opinion - that is exactly what Channel express have done by selling the division, rather than closing it down.
Quote:
(although, presumably, you two are the kind of self-centred "I'm all right, Jack"-ers on whom one would not normally pee were you to self combust).
Thanks - You seem like a really nice person too.
Just a numbered other
Thanks - You seem like a really nice person too.
That BALPA and the management of a large airline conspired to prevent this mitigation of grief is a source of major ire for him and for me.
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Ark,
Thanks, old friend.
_________________________________
You know, the more people I meet along life's path, the fewer of them I like.
It's a sad truism that once one person is prepared to shaft those around him (or her), the more others are forced to do the same to compete to begin with, then to survive. They even grow to believe that it's just "the way things are". It doesn't make them big, clever or right, just (in Black Adder's words), gits.
I shall (in a very long time, I hope) go to my grave one day still believing in the fundamental decency of humanity. I will not be persuaded that this belief is forlorn but evidence is increasingly thin on the ground.
That this shabby deal concocted by Channex may be entirely, absolutely, unarguably, iron-clad, legal does not make it right or anything other than something of which PM and his sycophants should be endlessly ashamed.
I hope it keeps him awake at night.
I doubt that it will.
Thanks, old friend.
_________________________________
You know, the more people I meet along life's path, the fewer of them I like.
It's a sad truism that once one person is prepared to shaft those around him (or her), the more others are forced to do the same to compete to begin with, then to survive. They even grow to believe that it's just "the way things are". It doesn't make them big, clever or right, just (in Black Adder's words), gits.
I shall (in a very long time, I hope) go to my grave one day still believing in the fundamental decency of humanity. I will not be persuaded that this belief is forlorn but evidence is increasingly thin on the ground.
That this shabby deal concocted by Channex may be entirely, absolutely, unarguably, iron-clad, legal does not make it right or anything other than something of which PM and his sycophants should be endlessly ashamed.
I hope it keeps him awake at night.
I doubt that it will.
Progression from F27 to B737
I spoke to an F27 first officer recently and he told me that in order to progress on to the 737 within Channex you had to pay for the type rating yourself. That is why a lot of them didn't move. In my experience with Channel Express that is par for the course. Easyjet, Ryanair and bmi baby pilots may think they have a tough deal but at least they are in a 'proper' airline which, on the whole, behave with a modicom of respect to their employees and at least operate within the rules that they set. Channel Express' rules tended to evolve as Philip Meeson saw fit and they still do.
Philip Meeson is a bully to his employees and has a history of this kind of behaviour. I definately agree with a previous poster - loyalty is a one way street with Channel Express/Jet 2.
Jet 2 pilots beware. You have been warned!
Philip Meeson is a bully to his employees and has a history of this kind of behaviour. I definately agree with a previous poster - loyalty is a one way street with Channel Express/Jet 2.
Jet 2 pilots beware. You have been warned!
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The galling thing is that the chancers & barrow boys who middle manage the affair truely believe their own b******t !.
Go on, give yourselves a big pat on the back, you've managed to save a few quid by not even having the decency to pay out the statutory minimum redundancy payment. Bonus'es all round & a day at the races in PM's Rapide, Hurrah !!.
Go on, give yourselves a big pat on the back, you've managed to save a few quid by not even having the decency to pay out the statutory minimum redundancy payment. Bonus'es all round & a day at the races in PM's Rapide, Hurrah !!.
Last edited by twang; 17th Nov 2004 at 02:04.
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Why is everyone getting so hot under the collar about Channex's treatment of the F27 pilots?
BA CitiExpress, when disposing of their Jetstream 41's, denied there was a transfer of crew and aircraft to Eastern for months, even though the airport check in staff knew the pilots were not told and enquiries to BACX management from pilots were met with hot denials.
When the transfer happened BACX seconded some of the '41 pilots to Eastern and made others redundant out of seniority order and when the secondment was over for the remainder, including some of the line trainers, were offered first officers jobs with BACX in BHX or redundancy, which amounted to three months salary in lieu plus a grand. Most walked to Eastern. One ex trainer I know went from £51k plus £1.50 an hour and final salary pension at BACX, to £39k plus £1.00 an hour and no pension. TUPE transfer? B0llocks.
Why no fuss about the BACX ’41 pilots then, and a furore over Channex F27 pilots now? At least they get a TUPE transfer.
BA CitiExpress, when disposing of their Jetstream 41's, denied there was a transfer of crew and aircraft to Eastern for months, even though the airport check in staff knew the pilots were not told and enquiries to BACX management from pilots were met with hot denials.
When the transfer happened BACX seconded some of the '41 pilots to Eastern and made others redundant out of seniority order and when the secondment was over for the remainder, including some of the line trainers, were offered first officers jobs with BACX in BHX or redundancy, which amounted to three months salary in lieu plus a grand. Most walked to Eastern. One ex trainer I know went from £51k plus £1.50 an hour and final salary pension at BACX, to £39k plus £1.00 an hour and no pension. TUPE transfer? B0llocks.
Why no fuss about the BACX ’41 pilots then, and a furore over Channex F27 pilots now? At least they get a TUPE transfer.
