Tomorrow's World 08/08/01 - Aircraft Evacuations

[brabazon]

Tonight's edition of Tomorrow's World BBC1 1900 is about Aircraft Evacuations and is including live trials using Cranfield's new double-decker cabin simulator.

For more info including an online evacuation test, see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/tw/items/twair.shtml

[ 08 August 2001: Message edited by: brabazon ]

[skidtoob]

Sounds like it might be interesting.

Cheers for that!!

[Onan the Clumsy]

Tomorrow's World is STILL running?

I'm old enough to remember when they highlighted a revolutionary new audio recording system. No, not CDs...Cassette tapes !

[Manflex55]

I really don't see the purpose of this kind of program. Making people believe that they're gonna make it out of a burning a/c in less than 90s is a joke. Everybody there was young, slim, healthy & more or less willing to cooperate... definitely not your average PAX.

As for the so-called cabin crew instructor, she did not smile a single time (I wish she had attended the "Branson school" in the early days of Virgin Express), & looked like if everybody was about to die anyway. Not the kind to enjoy flying with. Anybody knows who she works for ?

MF

[Mr Pax]

where were all the children & elderly passengers??

[sweeper]

very sanitised bull..

[slipper 1]

they all got out quicker in the "panic test" than they did in the "orderley test". Not very realistic.

[Max Angle]

Did not see the programme but has anyone else seen the trial Cranfield did a few years ago using money to generate a need to get out of the a/c. The first 10 get £50, the next 10 get £20 and the next 10 get £10 etc. It was truly scary what people were prepared to do to get out first for a few quid let alone their lives!.

[G-BPEC]

Slipper- I think the fact that they got out quicker the second time was something to do with the fact that they had done it once, and had had a practice "shot" at it - the second time money was being offered, and so of course they got out quicker, plus they had already done it once- like you say, not very realistic. In a real accident, surely fear would inevitably take over, along with the mobility problems of the elderly and disabled hindering evacuation considerably.

Max Angle, they were offering £5 as an incentive to the first half out of the aircraft to try and simulate the instinctive rush for the doors normally caused by panic.

I also found it interesting that the "yellows" who had read the safety card and thoroughly and planned their escapes only made 16 out of the first 30 out.

G-BPEC

[Zones]

Saw the programme & thought it was reasonable.

Elderley/children/babes in arms were missing, but maybe their was a reason. Eg didn't want to hurt anyone.... as would happen in real life !

I've done that evacuation myself, but in the old sim. This involved an old style over wing exit door. Very small and very heavy. Was also single aisle. You should have seen the carnage....

The real benefit of the Cranfield sims is analysis of video to see peoples benahavious, and to see who get out from where in waht time. I don't think they can justify the 90s rule using such sims. Just not accurate enough.

See a lot worse on tv regarding aviation...

[Flyin' High]

I have done the evac's in the Cranfield double deck sim.... They have very strict guidelines as to who can and cannot take part.

All applicant must be physically fit, able bodied and less than 15 stone!!!

I took part in the staff training exercise which was far more leisurely but a few friends took part in the "real" evac.... apparetly they had to stop the evacs on several occasions because people were being crushed or stuck in doors.

FH

[Bunty Boy]

Wonder if in a situation like this it would be useful to use dolls or manequins to simulate babies and the disbaled - rather than the real people. Simply get one or two people to look after the artificial person as they would a family member. You could even get people to wear 'fat suits' to simulate the overweight, rather than using someone that might be prone to a heart-attack. Obviously, as has already been pointed out, it's a highly artificial environment anyway and things are likely to be different in the real thing. However, surely training with these extra obsticles would be of more advantage? Any thoughts?

Bunty.

[wysiwyg]

So giving the first 30 or so a fiver is a true representation of panic is it? Try setting fire to the s0dding thing and see if there is a difference in the reaction!

wizzy

[5711N0205W]

Unfortunately those of us served by BBC Scotland were treated to 22 men kicking a bag of wind around a putting green in Holland. Does anyone know if it has a repeat showing ?

[PAXboy]

I agree that we have all seen worse about aviation on the box but this was pretty dismal stuff.

HOWEVER, the TW crew were simply following the Cranfield bunch. Who, in turn, are simply following the regulations. They might wish to do realistic exercises but who is going topay them to find out the truth that the airlines (and the Chancellor) do not want them to know?

Take as many people as you can afford (100 to 375) include the good suggestions about dolls for babies (wired up maybe), 'fat suits' and misted glasses.

Collect these people from a shopping mall one Saturday afternoon. Let them know that they are going to participate in a game show and have a free ride literally(!) but DO NOT tell them what it is about.

To save the law suits and the SUN headline, "I fawt ah woz gonna dae" get them to sign the kind of get-out that are used for game shows.


Take them to the field and board them. Give them the 'dance' as usual. Start up, taxi and commence roll.

Abort t/o and halt at the end of r/way. Commence evac.

If you have a bit more time and money, a light mist of artifical smoke in the cabin will do the trick.

Then give them all lots of booze and ship them home.

OK. I know the idea is not original but it is the only way to simulate.

[hapzim]

Hand baggage should be included as some will try to take it out with them . they bring enough of it on board !!!!!!

[bobtoldmetodoit]

That's because we know what happens to it if we check it in !

[Onan the Clumsy]

I saw a PBS show about the designing of the 777 and they wanted it to be certified for (ok, I've forgotten the exact number but let's say 500 people) they set everything up and started the stopwatch. I think the last one out balked at the slide and so they only got 499 out within the timeframe. They thought about doing it again, but when they realised how much it would cost, they just said bollocks to it and decided to stick with the original 499 - or whatever it was.

I thought it was interesting that they didn't have to come up with a hard number beforehand and then pass the test, they just sort of made one up and then downgraded it to however many made it out.

[Onan the Clumsy]

...and another thing. I went to a safety lecture once and the woman running it suggested we all go shopoping and buy one of those plastic bags you cook turkeys in. She demonstrated how she could put it over her head and rebreath for a good long time - long enough to walk all the way around the entire room.

She did point out though, that it needed to be a bag made to withstand temps hot enough to roast the turkey and not just an ordinary plastic bag.