Ryanair pilots form new union - Join !!(Merged)
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Hello fifty four
Your recount of the BA/Dan Air/BALPA episode is reasonably accurate as far of 10% of the story goes. What most people do not know is how BALPA actively undermined their own members from effectively pursuing BA in the courts, once BALPA had bailed out of supporting their members. Their original support was none other than a smoke-screen to throw everyone off the scent.
Don't take my word for it, go ask Dellie G-F, who was one of the staunchest supporters of the Dan Air pilots group (not union). She had the disclosure documents. Those documents would make your 'eyes water'. She could make a fortune if she published her memoirs.
You think you know all about 'dirty tricks'; I tell you, you know nothing!
Your recount of the BA/Dan Air/BALPA episode is reasonably accurate as far of 10% of the story goes. What most people do not know is how BALPA actively undermined their own members from effectively pursuing BA in the courts, once BALPA had bailed out of supporting their members. Their original support was none other than a smoke-screen to throw everyone off the scent.
Don't take my word for it, go ask Dellie G-F, who was one of the staunchest supporters of the Dan Air pilots group (not union). She had the disclosure documents. Those documents would make your 'eyes water'. She could make a fortune if she published her memoirs.
You think you know all about 'dirty tricks'; I tell you, you know nothing!
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Just a few points to consider about the union and its effectivness.
1.It will only be as good as the council you elect and the amount of their free time they can donate to the issue. REPA/BALPA/IALPA will provide support advice and expertise but the driving force must come from the members themselves. A challenge considering your oponent.
2.It will go nowhere if the members do not support their council and stand up and be counted when it comes to the crunch. If you do not play your part do not blame the Union.
3.When it come to expectations remember that your council will be doing their day to day job with the associated fatigue that it induces as well as Union duties. This will take a toll on their life and therefore you must realise that there will be a limit to what will be achieved and the rate at which it occurs. If you think you can do better stand for election yourself.
4.None of the above are reasons not to join.
I spent many years in GA and saw no reason to join BALPA howevere a couple of seasons with EZY changed my opinon about Unions. BALPA is not perfect by a long way,yet there is no other choice.
Good luck and keep in mind the long term goals of a quality of life in a company that will see you to retirement
1.It will only be as good as the council you elect and the amount of their free time they can donate to the issue. REPA/BALPA/IALPA will provide support advice and expertise but the driving force must come from the members themselves. A challenge considering your oponent.
2.It will go nowhere if the members do not support their council and stand up and be counted when it comes to the crunch. If you do not play your part do not blame the Union.
3.When it come to expectations remember that your council will be doing their day to day job with the associated fatigue that it induces as well as Union duties. This will take a toll on their life and therefore you must realise that there will be a limit to what will be achieved and the rate at which it occurs. If you think you can do better stand for election yourself.
4.None of the above are reasons not to join.
I spent many years in GA and saw no reason to join BALPA howevere a couple of seasons with EZY changed my opinon about Unions. BALPA is not perfect by a long way,yet there is no other choice.
Good luck and keep in mind the long term goals of a quality of life in a company that will see you to retirement
Last edited by flap15; 1st Nov 2004 at 08:29.
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Ryanair pilots form new union
Hi flap15
Good words! I agree, and I wish REPA all the very best. Current problems still exist with BALPA and I would advise REPA to deal directly with the TUC who know how to behave AS A UNION rather than getting to cosy with BALPA whose advice can be strangely erroneous and unaccountable. These words are about current events, not 10-year old ones. Wait til I publish my memoirs!
Good words! I agree, and I wish REPA all the very best. Current problems still exist with BALPA and I would advise REPA to deal directly with the TUC who know how to behave AS A UNION rather than getting to cosy with BALPA whose advice can be strangely erroneous and unaccountable. These words are about current events, not 10-year old ones. Wait til I publish my memoirs!
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repa update
delighted to announce now of a good and growing response on the www.repaweb.org website.keep up the good work!really heartening contributions in forums also.SPREAD THE WORD AND HAVE YOUR SAY.
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dirty tricks
for a good look at ryanairs latest dirty tricks campaign against their pilots.log on to www.repaweb.org ,the home of the pilots voice in ryanair.for those of you who cannot join,suffice to say that if this latest gig comes your way,then you are in a bad way.
for those of you who can,see what a depraved organisation we really work for.a little taster is that new contracts will be offered on ryanairs terms and conditions and if you don't sign it,then foxtrot oscar as the big bully boy from the bog likes to say.
the numbers grow daily on the site and look real good now.
for those of you who can,see what a depraved organisation we really work for.a little taster is that new contracts will be offered on ryanairs terms and conditions and if you don't sign it,then foxtrot oscar as the big bully boy from the bog likes to say.
the numbers grow daily on the site and look real good now.
More antics from O'Leary:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...347263,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...347263,00.html
Ryanair pilots seething over contract ultimatum
Ciaran Hancock
RYANAIR has told its Dublin-based pilots that if they do not sign new contracts tying them to the company for five years, they will not be given training on the airline’s new fleet and could lose their jobs.
Pilots were also informed that they will be required to pay the full €15,000 cost of the training if they leave the airline before the five years has expired. Ryanair is planning to replace 10 Boeing 737-200s, currently based in Ireland, with the larger and more fuel-efficient 737-800 by the end of 2005. More than 90 pilots in Dublin require retraining.
These conditions, which were outlined at two meetings on Thursday, are unusual in the airline industry and have raised the hackles of pilots, who are set to resist the plans.
It is understood the pilots believe this is part of a wider plan by the company to reduce their benefits and conditions of employment. One said: “My colleagues are fed up with the erosion in our terms and conditions. This is more of the same and we see no end to it.”
Pilots say Ryanair has already nibbled at their benefits, changing the way in which pensions are paid, introducing charges for uniforms and axing free tea and coffee for staff. They now believe the company could target other perks, including staff travel privileges and life assurance.
It is not clear what action the pilots might take, but industrial action has been ruled out.
Earlier this year about 10 pilots based in Shannon signed bonds that tied them to the airline for three years after their retraining. The pilots agreed to pay €7,500 to the company if they leave within that time.
Ryanair confirmed the conditions attached to the training programme but declined to comment on the detail of the meetings held with pilots. The company reiterated that its pilots were “among the best paid in Europe”.
Ryanair’s pilots have already drawn the ire of Michael O’Leary, the airline’s chief executive, by forming the Ryanair European Pilots’ Association. This is aimed at giving Ryanair pilots a united voice in dealing with the company.
Ciaran Hancock
RYANAIR has told its Dublin-based pilots that if they do not sign new contracts tying them to the company for five years, they will not be given training on the airline’s new fleet and could lose their jobs.
Pilots were also informed that they will be required to pay the full €15,000 cost of the training if they leave the airline before the five years has expired. Ryanair is planning to replace 10 Boeing 737-200s, currently based in Ireland, with the larger and more fuel-efficient 737-800 by the end of 2005. More than 90 pilots in Dublin require retraining.
These conditions, which were outlined at two meetings on Thursday, are unusual in the airline industry and have raised the hackles of pilots, who are set to resist the plans.
It is understood the pilots believe this is part of a wider plan by the company to reduce their benefits and conditions of employment. One said: “My colleagues are fed up with the erosion in our terms and conditions. This is more of the same and we see no end to it.”
Pilots say Ryanair has already nibbled at their benefits, changing the way in which pensions are paid, introducing charges for uniforms and axing free tea and coffee for staff. They now believe the company could target other perks, including staff travel privileges and life assurance.
It is not clear what action the pilots might take, but industrial action has been ruled out.
Earlier this year about 10 pilots based in Shannon signed bonds that tied them to the airline for three years after their retraining. The pilots agreed to pay €7,500 to the company if they leave within that time.
Ryanair confirmed the conditions attached to the training programme but declined to comment on the detail of the meetings held with pilots. The company reiterated that its pilots were “among the best paid in Europe”.
Ryanair’s pilots have already drawn the ire of Michael O’Leary, the airline’s chief executive, by forming the Ryanair European Pilots’ Association. This is aimed at giving Ryanair pilots a united voice in dealing with the company.
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Does anyone know, for sure i.e. 100% & not bar-room lawyer speculation, what any pilot's legal status would be if they do not agree to these conditions? Would they have deemed to have fired themselves, would they come under redundancy compensation, or even under unfairdismissal consideration?
Any company could impose unacceptable conditions on required retraining for personnel who's equipment is sold, in any industry. Surely the workers would have some balancing rights in this instance, especially if new workers were hired to replace them? That would demonstrate that the job/position was still a necessity to the companies business. With no such protection it would leave companies open to the tactic of changing equipment, demanding bonding or payment with other attached conditions, lowering the T's & C's for the imposed 'new'conract on the new equipment, or hiring new entrants, who would now be less senior/experienced, on lower terms. A great cost saving device.
Is it really as simple, in this day & age of EU legislation, as a fait accompli?
Any company could impose unacceptable conditions on required retraining for personnel who's equipment is sold, in any industry. Surely the workers would have some balancing rights in this instance, especially if new workers were hired to replace them? That would demonstrate that the job/position was still a necessity to the companies business. With no such protection it would leave companies open to the tactic of changing equipment, demanding bonding or payment with other attached conditions, lowering the T's & C's for the imposed 'new'conract on the new equipment, or hiring new entrants, who would now be less senior/experienced, on lower terms. A great cost saving device.
Is it really as simple, in this day & age of EU legislation, as a fait accompli?
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winnable
maybe but the TEST PILOT will in all likely hood not work for a long time if ever again.not many companies looking for a union agitator on their team.lets be realistic!
Its not unusual in other industries for employees to have to commit for a specified length of time or be penalised when training is offered.
If the position of a 737 200 crew is going to become redundant the Ryanair could legally just pay them off.
If the position of a 737 200 crew is going to become redundant the Ryanair could legally just pay them off.
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To me the issue of bonding the DUB pilots is an attempt on Mick's behalf to get back at them for basically giving him the "foxtrot oscar" attitude at the constant erosion of their terms and conditions. This becomes evident when looking at the way that bonding has been handled on the -200 conversions that have happened to date: as stated in the newspaper article, a 3 year bond of €7,500, so why are the DUB pilots bonded over nearly double this period and the training costs double mysteriously as well.
It has also been announced that there may be cutbacks in Dublin in order to prevent additional capacity (to aid the battle with Aer Rianta). If this is the case, why have -800 pilots from other bases been given the chance to return to DUB when clearly there are not even enough jobs for all the people based there currently, assuming the cutbacks go ahead.
This debate certainly raises more questions than answers and once again shows the lack of respect openly displayed by the company towards its pilots.
It has also been announced that there may be cutbacks in Dublin in order to prevent additional capacity (to aid the battle with Aer Rianta). If this is the case, why have -800 pilots from other bases been given the chance to return to DUB when clearly there are not even enough jobs for all the people based there currently, assuming the cutbacks go ahead.
This debate certainly raises more questions than answers and once again shows the lack of respect openly displayed by the company towards its pilots.
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bonding
all this bs about bonding and training costs.it just goes to show that bonds and training cost are not linked whatsoever and are just a way at FORCING the employees loyalty.all this crud in interview techniques about team player,good communicator,loyal e.t.c is a load of horse manure when instead of having a company that rewards an employees loyalty and aspires to have everyone work together.the so called managers have to monetarily force their employees to stay in the company as they are being rogered.
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Word from Dublin is that they are going after the senior pilots in the belief that they can be picked off by offering them something extra. Any of you REPA people able to shed any light on this? There was some kind of a meeting today (or maybe yesterday) about this, so what's they story?
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its all on www.repaweb.org
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aloue... sorry... but there seem to be no "rules" established over at REPA for what can leak out. All I can say is that it is clear that significant events are taking place and the display of unity is very encouraging (if not surprising and long overdue). I can see now why Ryanair have done their best to sabotage the site as for the first time we can get very prompt information out to everybody.
I'm not sure why you can't join, but if it is because you do not qualify, you can always join Ryanair!! They certainly could do with some willing volunteers.
I'm not sure why you can't join, but if it is because you do not qualify, you can always join Ryanair!! They certainly could do with some willing volunteers.
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Delwy you're right about getting prompt information out to everyone - here’s the latest !
Posted by REPAI 12th November 2004 - 11.29am
IALPA Letter to Ryanair
Ryanair Meeting for Senior Pilots
N.B. This Information is Confidential to REPA Members
IALPA-Update 3
Dublin, Novembers 12th, 10:30 a.m. An acknowledgment of the receipt of IALPA's letter was received from Ryanair earlier this week. IALPA subsequently received a comprehensive reply from Mr. O'Leary just after 09:00 this morning.
IALPA and its parent organisation IMPACT will be taking appropriate advice from their advisors regarding the content of this letter.
Ryanair have also invited a number of senior pilots to a meeting on the afternoon of Friday November 12th, at which it is understood a new contract may be on offer.
Each of these developments had been anticipated and preliminary consideration of possible courses of action has already taken place.
We regret that providing detailed news about these developments will be constrained over the coming days for various reasons, but we will do our best to keep you up to to speed with developments.
As Ryanair itself has made no public announcements about the IALPA initiative, we have a strong preference that this matter be kept out of the media. We have low key response in the pipeline when the issue finally appears in the media.
Request for Assistance: We would like some help from pilots who attended the Dublin Town Hall meetings on November 4th. If you took notes of the information on the Powerpoint slide with "Pros" and "Cons" of being well behaved (as we know several of you did), we would particularly like you to retain those notes as they may have an important role to play in the future. Please use the "PM" (Personal Message) facility to tell us if you have such notes and indicate if you were at the first or the second meeting. There is no need to provide your name in the PM (please send it to REPAI).
Posted by REPAI 12th November 2004 - 11.29am
IALPA Letter to Ryanair
Ryanair Meeting for Senior Pilots
N.B. This Information is Confidential to REPA Members
IALPA-Update 3
Dublin, Novembers 12th, 10:30 a.m. An acknowledgment of the receipt of IALPA's letter was received from Ryanair earlier this week. IALPA subsequently received a comprehensive reply from Mr. O'Leary just after 09:00 this morning.
IALPA and its parent organisation IMPACT will be taking appropriate advice from their advisors regarding the content of this letter.
Ryanair have also invited a number of senior pilots to a meeting on the afternoon of Friday November 12th, at which it is understood a new contract may be on offer.
Each of these developments had been anticipated and preliminary consideration of possible courses of action has already taken place.
We regret that providing detailed news about these developments will be constrained over the coming days for various reasons, but we will do our best to keep you up to to speed with developments.
As Ryanair itself has made no public announcements about the IALPA initiative, we have a strong preference that this matter be kept out of the media. We have low key response in the pipeline when the issue finally appears in the media.
Request for Assistance: We would like some help from pilots who attended the Dublin Town Hall meetings on November 4th. If you took notes of the information on the Powerpoint slide with "Pros" and "Cons" of being well behaved (as we know several of you did), we would particularly like you to retain those notes as they may have an important role to play in the future. Please use the "PM" (Personal Message) facility to tell us if you have such notes and indicate if you were at the first or the second meeting. There is no need to provide your name in the PM (please send it to REPAI).
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Maybe not an idiot... just bad...
S-me-bum - well it looks like you feel the desire for confidentiality does not apply to you! Indeed the contrary. Presumably you are either terminally stupid or, more likely, courting favour in the corridors of power (or, even more likely, have been given this little gift by a courtier?). S-me-a, you are well named and obviously not a particularly pleasant cup of tea. But all of this gives substance to the rumours that Ryanair may be in a bit more trouble than it would like to be with its pilots this time round.
May the day of reckoning come as soon as possible.
May the day of reckoning come as soon as possible.
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No no, Securitymearse isn't an ill diciplined REPA member, its simply (and a rather dull witted) provocation!! For that matter it might be Mick himself - we all know he likes pprune!
What's sad is that one of our chums provided the copy! Remember, 'Trust God and the righteousness of our cause'.
Well someone said that maybe - Henry V at Agincourt - Nelson at Trafalgar - Duke of Wellington at Waterloo? Anyone remember who it was?
What's sad is that one of our chums provided the copy! Remember, 'Trust God and the righteousness of our cause'.
Well someone said that maybe - Henry V at Agincourt - Nelson at Trafalgar - Duke of Wellington at Waterloo? Anyone remember who it was?
Last edited by teapea; 17th Nov 2004 at 20:02.