Are you still enjoying it?!!!
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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Are you still enjoying it?!!!
This is question for experienced crew, sorry wannabe chaps but your utopian view doesn't count. Am I alone in thinking the fun has gone out of the game. Going to work used to be such a crack with like minded people who loved the job. I just seem to be sorrounded by point scoring rottweilers that bang the drum but don't see the big wide world outside and who think their pitiful minutiae makes them big fish.
The crushing tedium that results from every decision or likely variable being dealt with by a sub paragraph in section 8 (and that the rotties can repeat verbatim) takes the bulk of the challenges out of what used to be a bloody good job.
And lets not get onto the relentless march downwards of our T 's and C's.
The crushing tedium that results from every decision or likely variable being dealt with by a sub paragraph in section 8 (and that the rotties can repeat verbatim) takes the bulk of the challenges out of what used to be a bloody good job.
And lets not get onto the relentless march downwards of our T 's and C's.
Join Date: May 2004
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I've got out, myself, having been a management pilot with a big airline. Much happier now, can't believe how fatigued I was when flying, and I don't miss it one jot. You're spot on about Ts and Cs, but the rot goes deeper than that... It's certainly not a professional job any more.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Problem with this job is that everyone thinks they're going to be lady penelopes chauffeur.
If you don't enjoy it then get out because no doubt there are many wannabees who would like to be in your shoes.
If you've spent a fortune to get into the RHS and you want to get out then fair play, but there seems to be more negative than positive floating around and I would propose that flying for a reputable airline is not at all a bad job if that's what you want. Stop the sodding moaning and head into IT.
If you don't enjoy it then get out because no doubt there are many wannabees who would like to be in your shoes.
If you've spent a fortune to get into the RHS and you want to get out then fair play, but there seems to be more negative than positive floating around and I would propose that flying for a reputable airline is not at all a bad job if that's what you want. Stop the sodding moaning and head into IT.
I've missed far too many family firsts, crawling, walking, saying daddy for the first time. Rarely do I get to go to my daughters ice skating practice, yada, yada, yada.
There are individual moments that I still like, greased landings, departures near empty, etc.
All things considered, probably wouldn't persue airline flying again. Its been good as far as providing for the family, but its at a high price.
There are individual moments that I still like, greased landings, departures near empty, etc.
All things considered, probably wouldn't persue airline flying again. Its been good as far as providing for the family, but its at a high price.
Join Date: May 2001
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Airline flying is now a subtle blend of fatigue, frustration, boredom broken up by periods of high stress.
My own employer now has over 2,400 Flight Crew Orders of course I can use my initiative providing I am acting in the best interests of.....
Trouble is they are more likely to suspend you and threaten the sack than pat you on the head and say well done. So most do not stick their necks out.
BP
My own employer now has over 2,400 Flight Crew Orders of course I can use my initiative providing I am acting in the best interests of.....
Trouble is they are more likely to suspend you and threaten the sack than pat you on the head and say well done. So most do not stick their necks out.
BP
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Hi. I also quit. Used to hold various managerial roles in small/medium airlines. Some failed so I ended up in the dole-queue. At least I had made some money so that I could afford to look around. In the meantime one of my pensions started to pay.
Like the original poster said, it used t be fun. Nice crews, good fun nightstops, great aircraft. But recently I had a Chief Pilot (also CRM instructor!!!) who rings up FOs to find out which old LHS bods are not following Part 8 to the letter, etc.
So I got out and took a groundbased job, whilst saying NO to job offers in the pits of Europe, Middle East and Far East.
Now I can sleep in my own bed every night, have weekends off, see my family and grandkids. I earn less, but I am HAPPY.......
Like the original poster said, it used t be fun. Nice crews, good fun nightstops, great aircraft. But recently I had a Chief Pilot (also CRM instructor!!!) who rings up FOs to find out which old LHS bods are not following Part 8 to the letter, etc.
So I got out and took a groundbased job, whilst saying NO to job offers in the pits of Europe, Middle East and Far East.
Now I can sleep in my own bed every night, have weekends off, see my family and grandkids. I earn less, but I am HAPPY.......
Join Date: Jul 2004
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As an airline pilot to be it is very disheartening to here moral as low as this.
I stopped training after I realised that it wasn't going to be an easy haul, but I kept on thinking what if? So I had to finish my training to fulfil my ambition.
I've heard many bad things about the deteriorating terms and conditions, but could someone enlighten me with some examples so I know what I'm getting myself into.
I stopped training after I realised that it wasn't going to be an easy haul, but I kept on thinking what if? So I had to finish my training to fulfil my ambition.
I've heard many bad things about the deteriorating terms and conditions, but could someone enlighten me with some examples so I know what I'm getting myself into.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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The best paid jobs in aviation are either dangerous, or boring.
If you can do without the money, there are still interesting jobs to be done. Most use them as stepping stones to, you guessed it, the airlines!
So, if you're already doing an interesting job, with a view to joining an airline, make sure you enjoy every last moment, because once you move on, those memories may have to last you a lifetime!
And if you're already flying for an airline, just accept you are doing it for the money, and find your fun elsewhere!
The rot was already well under way, however, now the over-hyped threat of 'terrorism' gives the fun police licence to stamp out enjoyment wherever they find it!
(Richard Reid - The shoe bomber carried explosives in his shoes, so now I have to take my shoes off to pass through security! Good job he didn't secrete the stuff in his underpants!)
Sad, but mostly true!
If you can do without the money, there are still interesting jobs to be done. Most use them as stepping stones to, you guessed it, the airlines!
So, if you're already doing an interesting job, with a view to joining an airline, make sure you enjoy every last moment, because once you move on, those memories may have to last you a lifetime!
And if you're already flying for an airline, just accept you are doing it for the money, and find your fun elsewhere!
The rot was already well under way, however, now the over-hyped threat of 'terrorism' gives the fun police licence to stamp out enjoyment wherever they find it!
(Richard Reid - The shoe bomber carried explosives in his shoes, so now I have to take my shoes off to pass through security! Good job he didn't secrete the stuff in his underpants!)
Sad, but mostly true!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I agree that times have changed. But some of you bored guys may confuse the change in your personal attitude with the chance of the industry itself!
I remember when I started airline business 15 years ago, the old lads said "well, well, it used to be much much better in the old days". And they may have been (although they still made very good money and didn't work a lot). But most of all one gets tired about the job, and that's what's it making different!
Dani
I remember when I started airline business 15 years ago, the old lads said "well, well, it used to be much much better in the old days". And they may have been (although they still made very good money and didn't work a lot). But most of all one gets tired about the job, and that's what's it making different!
Dani
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How very sad...I have been flying since 1968 (June 10th to be exact) and I still love it!
Been in the Military and then several different airlines. Sure I've been made redundant a few times but "you stand yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again!"
Even Airline flying can be reqarding if you go out there and do the best you can every single day. That's what being a "Professional" pilot is all about.
I am on standby at the moment and hoping the phone rings!
Been in the Military and then several different airlines. Sure I've been made redundant a few times but "you stand yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again!"
Even Airline flying can be reqarding if you go out there and do the best you can every single day. That's what being a "Professional" pilot is all about.
I am on standby at the moment and hoping the phone rings!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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This is an absolutely brilliant thread! Says it all. I too have chucked in the towel and am much happier for it. They've taken all the fun out of it and I feel very sorry for the young people starting out in aviation today. Just glad I was there for the good times.
I am on standby at the moment and hoping the phone rings!
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Have to agree.
In my opinion it's the work/life balance that's all wrong. Days are ridiculously long in many cases, airspace critically overcrowded, a rulebook thicker than the yellow pages, and the old 'six on, two off and be thankful' management culture leaves no time for recovery, let alone R & R before it begins all over again.
In shorthaul we're shiftworkers with crazily changing shift patterns perfect for inducing fatigue, yet we actually work longer weeks with fewer pro rata days off than a stable shift worker.......work that one out. Six on, two off just can't be right for a shift worker expected to control sixty tonnes of jet aeroplane in all weathers at all times of the day and night, make all the right decisions and get kicked in the ass or worse when a small deviation from the ops manual occurs.........
Another point often overlooked is that modern aircraft have taken much of the fun out of it as well, and reduced the actual involvement of tuning and tracking nav aids etc in the cruise, getting your descent exactly right etc etc blah blah.....
And try keeping a marriage going with endless nightstops or earlies and lates. The sheer daily grind is very much at odds with the perception of those who don't do it.
Apart from all that it's bl**dy marvellous.
In my opinion it's the work/life balance that's all wrong. Days are ridiculously long in many cases, airspace critically overcrowded, a rulebook thicker than the yellow pages, and the old 'six on, two off and be thankful' management culture leaves no time for recovery, let alone R & R before it begins all over again.
In shorthaul we're shiftworkers with crazily changing shift patterns perfect for inducing fatigue, yet we actually work longer weeks with fewer pro rata days off than a stable shift worker.......work that one out. Six on, two off just can't be right for a shift worker expected to control sixty tonnes of jet aeroplane in all weathers at all times of the day and night, make all the right decisions and get kicked in the ass or worse when a small deviation from the ops manual occurs.........
Another point often overlooked is that modern aircraft have taken much of the fun out of it as well, and reduced the actual involvement of tuning and tracking nav aids etc in the cruise, getting your descent exactly right etc etc blah blah.....
And try keeping a marriage going with endless nightstops or earlies and lates. The sheer daily grind is very much at odds with the perception of those who don't do it.
Apart from all that it's bl**dy marvellous.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Do you really think it is any different today in any job that requires a responsible professional to do it? Times have changed in almost all professions and everyone has more work and more pressure. Competition in business means decisions are made that adversely affect the workforce today that wouldn't even have been considered 20 years ago. We have to live with this and conform, the older people who remember the good old days sometimes find it harder. I'm one of the older brigade who when experiencing my good old days listened to senior people telling me that their good old days were better than mine. I'm sure the young professionals of today who are enjoying the job know what I mean.
If you are thinking of leaving your present job because the shine has gone off it just remember it may be a temporary feeling until you re adjust and if you are serious about moving if you want to earn the same salary don't expect conditions to be much different in the other world.
If you are thinking of leaving your present job because the shine has gone off it just remember it may be a temporary feeling until you re adjust and if you are serious about moving if you want to earn the same salary don't expect conditions to be much different in the other world.
Well Snigs, I'm sorry that it hacks you off but the question was asked and is being answered in a candid fashion by people. The truth is the job is not what it was only 10 years ago and many people are unhappy and concerned at how the industry, and our lives are changing. As 1DC correctly points out that the same things are happening in many other jobs, it doesn't mean I have to like it when it happens to mine.