Olympic Airlines A340 military escort into STN ?
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So, had there been a bomb on board, what exactly would the RAF Tornadoes have done and what purpose was served in scrambling them?
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The bomb threat was received while the aircraft was still in Southern Europe.
The French allowed it fly all the way through their airspace and let it come to the UK.
Originally the crew wanted to land at Heathrow - French ATC put in a reroute with EGLL as destination.
This was changed to EGSS when London received the Flight Plan.
Not that much notice for Stansted.
Well done to the ATCO who vectored it along the channel and round the coast with nearly every level of NATS management standing behind him, watching like some bad Keifer Sutherland movie.
The French allowed it fly all the way through their airspace and let it come to the UK.
Originally the crew wanted to land at Heathrow - French ATC put in a reroute with EGLL as destination.
This was changed to EGSS when London received the Flight Plan.
Not that much notice for Stansted.
Well done to the ATCO who vectored it along the channel and round the coast with nearly every level of NATS management standing behind him, watching like some bad Keifer Sutherland movie.
'nough said
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The crew of the A340 were continually asking how long the fire engines were going to be? This went on for about 15 minutes.
Why not evacuate via the slides then?
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There must have been some amazing "problem" at Stansted.. the AFS at Heathrow reckoned to reach anywhere on the airfield in just a few minutes.
Doubt we'll ever know the truth.
Doubt we'll ever know the truth.
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Why would the fire service want to rush toward an aircraft that was potentially about to explode? Aren't they the folks who put fires out ?
Get everyone off first then send people who are paid to look for these things.
Get everyone off first then send people who are paid to look for these things.
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Say Mach Number: ".. crew told ATC they had given 50 mins notice of arrival."
On a westbound flight at an A340 cruising G/S that would put the jet nicely in the French FIR, as substantiated by VectorLine.
Unlike the French to pass the buck
Those horrible little turds should pay up for whatever costs will be incured upon the British tax-payer, not to mention questioning the safety of the crew and their passengers!
If my facts are somewhat untrue I apologise to all of France
, but I read it in the Daily Mail so it must be true!
On a westbound flight at an A340 cruising G/S that would put the jet nicely in the French FIR, as substantiated by VectorLine.
Unlike the French to pass the buck
Those horrible little turds should pay up for whatever costs will be incured upon the British tax-payer, not to mention questioning the safety of the crew and their passengers!
If my facts are somewhat untrue I apologise to all of France
, but I read it in the Daily Mail so it must be true!
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I was also listening to Tower, Ground and 121.6 yesterday. I noted the steps (single set) arrival time as 20-21 minutes after landing. The Airport Fire Service were positioned at runway holding points PRIOR to the aircraft arrival, and the crew were not calling for the Fire Service to attend. Once parked the crew were switched to 121.6 and contact was established between the acft and Fire 1. It was with Fire 1 that the crew were requesting the steps, and were understandbly distressed that they had to wait so long for them. The Servisair steps did eventually arrive, by which time I understand the coaches were waiting to transport the pax to the terminal.
It was very worrying that the steps took so long to arrive, especially as there would have been a number of suitable steps located much closer which would not have needed to be towed from one side of the airfield to the other.
It was very worrying that the steps took so long to arrive, especially as there would have been a number of suitable steps located much closer which would not have needed to be towed from one side of the airfield to the other.
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ahh but this is the days of user pays.... and someone would have had to sign a handling contract before anyone provided stairs!!!
Exploding planes dont pay bills you know!
HOTDOG - you obviously aint seen the flying trapeze in the wine tower at the SAS Radisson STN. Perfect evenings entertainment for any red blooded male.
Exploding planes dont pay bills you know!
HOTDOG - you obviously aint seen the flying trapeze in the wine tower at the SAS Radisson STN. Perfect evenings entertainment for any red blooded male.
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At the time on stand I wasnt aware what the nature of the emergency was but assumed it was serious.
But to 'Departures Beckham' I was only listening to ground because we were trying to get out of Stansted and the OAL crew were definately asking ATC how long before the fire service were going to be and they asked 3 or 4 times.
Only found out it was a bomb threat once saw it on the news. But can assure you the tone on the voices of the OAL crew definately gave me the impression they were not impressed with what was taking place around them.
What took place after landing was obviously not what the crew thought was going to happen.
But to 'Departures Beckham' I was only listening to ground because we were trying to get out of Stansted and the OAL crew were definately asking ATC how long before the fire service were going to be and they asked 3 or 4 times.
Only found out it was a bomb threat once saw it on the news. But can assure you the tone on the voices of the OAL crew definately gave me the impression they were not impressed with what was taking place around them.
What took place after landing was obviously not what the crew thought was going to happen.
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I have often been wondering about the purpose of escort fighter jets. Ok, there is an emergency, a bomb threat but WHAT are the fighters going to do??? Shoot us down? Or just scare our passengers whitless?
Is there a purpose of this escort that is hidden to me? I thought this sort of behaviour was limited to US showoffs.
Is there a purpose of this escort that is hidden to me? I thought this sort of behaviour was limited to US showoffs.
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STN is the designated div to handle any hijacked / threatened aircraft, is set up to deal with such and has been for some time. Quite why the crew didn't evacuate the pax down the slides as soon as the parking brake was on is beyond me.
Post 9/11, ALL reports of hijacked / bomb threat etc aircraft would result in an intercept and escort. Had this been a hijack, and the aircraft suddenly driven towards a heavily poulated target a-la WTC, many many people would be glad of the fact that there is an armed aircraft there to ensure the loss of 300 lives does not become the loss of 3000 lives or worse.
For those of you determined to sling insults at the AD boys, just imagine being the person who has to fire upon a fully laden airliner to prevent even worse loss of life. Sh1tty deal, but what other choice is there?
Having air defence QRA could not be more relevant nowadays.
16B
Post 9/11, ALL reports of hijacked / bomb threat etc aircraft would result in an intercept and escort. Had this been a hijack, and the aircraft suddenly driven towards a heavily poulated target a-la WTC, many many people would be glad of the fact that there is an armed aircraft there to ensure the loss of 300 lives does not become the loss of 3000 lives or worse.
For those of you determined to sling insults at the AD boys, just imagine being the person who has to fire upon a fully laden airliner to prevent even worse loss of life. Sh1tty deal, but what other choice is there?
Having air defence QRA could not be more relevant nowadays.
16B
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The Servisair steps did eventually arrive, by which time I understand the coaches were waiting to transport the pax to the terminal.
Coincidental or intended ? Can't have passengers wandering about the apron now, can we ?
Coincidental or intended ? Can't have passengers wandering about the apron now, can we ?
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Certain aspects of QRA policy canvassed here http://www.publications.parliament.u...18/2030611.htm.
Read Q 529... And happy flying, chaps!
Read Q 529... And happy flying, chaps!
Last edited by VH-Cheer Up; 28th Sep 2004 at 00:18.
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>>Quite why the crew didn't evacuate the pax down the slides as soon as the parking brake was on is beyond me.<<
Obviously, it was because the pax lacked the requisite airport ID and high viz vest to be on the ramp at EGSS. If you've done a walkaround there, you know what I mean...
Obviously, it was because the pax lacked the requisite airport ID and high viz vest to be on the ramp at EGSS. If you've done a walkaround there, you know what I mean...
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If I was put in this situation with the threat of a bomb on the aircraft I would have ordered an evacuation via the slides had the steps not been in place as soon as the aircraft parked.
I could and would not expect the pax and crew to sit on top of a potental bomb wile the BAA get there act together. I am paid to keep the pax safe not to fit in with the timetable of some BAA paperpusher.
I could and would not expect the pax and crew to sit on top of a potental bomb wile the BAA get there act together. I am paid to keep the pax safe not to fit in with the timetable of some BAA paperpusher.
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The issue of steps was raised a while a go. Many German airfields fire services have large aircraft steps mounted on a standard fire engine chasis. Seems like the perfect piece of kit for this sort of thing and should certainly be standard at places like STN.
Much safer than blowing slides, How do you know the bomb is not in the slide? Best to only touch things you have already used.
Much safer than blowing slides, How do you know the bomb is not in the slide? Best to only touch things you have already used.
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Many moons ago(early 80s) we were coming back from Athens in a Dan Comet up the usual east side of Italy when we were asked to call Roma. Over we went only to be told they had a message from London that "there is a bomb on your aircraft"!! Note, not "there might be" but "there IS". After an initial fit of crying, we decided to test how quickly you could descend in a Comet with everything dangling. Quite fast actually and amid screams of "I don't want to die" from the three of us we were on finals at Rimini in about 5 mins. It transpired that the Italian military were having a practice invasion or something similar (in those days most airfields were jointly run by civil and mil - are they still?) and were at a high state of readiness. As we turned off the runway we were met by two sets of motor driven steps which positioned at our pax doors far quicker than we could have deployed the slides. Before you could say Mama Mia, pax and crew were whisked away to a flash hotel and left the aircraft parked just off the runway but clearly creating an obstruction. Rimini was closed for 12 hours and inbound charter aircraft diverted to the rest of Italy.
Needless to say, no bomb was found but hundreds of pax were inconvenienced by one stupid hoax call.
Needless to say, no bomb was found but hundreds of pax were inconvenienced by one stupid hoax call.
Nice
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Copycat Scare ?
From the BBC website....
New bomb scare diverts Greek jet
The incident comes two days after a Greek jet was forced to land in the UK
A New York-bound Olympic Airways flight carrying 295 passengers has landed in Ireland after a bomb alert.
An Athens newspaper received warning of a bomb on board, the airline said - the second such incident in three days.
"There was a call to a local newspaper around 3.45pm (1245 GMT) saying a bomb on the plane would explode in an hour," Olympic Airlines' Melina Pitta said.
"Nothing has happened," she added. The plane made an emergency landing at Shannon, the nearest airport.
Passengers were being evacuated and taken to a secure area for screening before the plane is searched.
Jets scrambled
The BBC's Richard Galpin, in Athens, says Greek officials have said the incident is an "absolute carbon copy" of an incident on Sunday.
Then, Olympic Airlines flight 411 landed at Stansted in the UK after a bomb alert.
That plane was en route from Athens to New York when a Greek newspaper took anonymous phone calls saying there was a bomb on board.
RAF jets were scrambled and escorted the plane, with 301 passengers and crew, to Stansted, near London.
The aircraft resumed its flight to New York on Monday.
'Copy-cat fears'
The second aircraft, with a crew of 12, took off from Athens at 1013 GMT, Ms Pitta said.
The airline spokesman said US authorities had refused permission for the plane to land at New York's JFK airport.
Airline sources told the Greek news agency ANA that they believed the bomb threat was a hoax, adding that passenger checks in Athens were rigorous.
David Learmount, operations and safety editor of Flight International magazine, told the Press Association news agency: " What the worry is now is that this could spark off copy-cat actions that could disrupt airline services."
New bomb scare diverts Greek jet
The incident comes two days after a Greek jet was forced to land in the UK
A New York-bound Olympic Airways flight carrying 295 passengers has landed in Ireland after a bomb alert.
An Athens newspaper received warning of a bomb on board, the airline said - the second such incident in three days.
"There was a call to a local newspaper around 3.45pm (1245 GMT) saying a bomb on the plane would explode in an hour," Olympic Airlines' Melina Pitta said.
"Nothing has happened," she added. The plane made an emergency landing at Shannon, the nearest airport.
Passengers were being evacuated and taken to a secure area for screening before the plane is searched.
Jets scrambled
The BBC's Richard Galpin, in Athens, says Greek officials have said the incident is an "absolute carbon copy" of an incident on Sunday.
Then, Olympic Airlines flight 411 landed at Stansted in the UK after a bomb alert.
That plane was en route from Athens to New York when a Greek newspaper took anonymous phone calls saying there was a bomb on board.
RAF jets were scrambled and escorted the plane, with 301 passengers and crew, to Stansted, near London.
The aircraft resumed its flight to New York on Monday.
'Copy-cat fears'
The second aircraft, with a crew of 12, took off from Athens at 1013 GMT, Ms Pitta said.
The airline spokesman said US authorities had refused permission for the plane to land at New York's JFK airport.
Airline sources told the Greek news agency ANA that they believed the bomb threat was a hoax, adding that passenger checks in Athens were rigorous.
David Learmount, operations and safety editor of Flight International magazine, told the Press Association news agency: " What the worry is now is that this could spark off copy-cat actions that could disrupt airline services."
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16 Blade said:
WHY? The airliner IS under full control by the pilots that most likely have landed the jet before. IF the bomb explodes suddently what on earth are you going to do? Yeah, add some more explosives, huh? Or are you perhaps going to divert the wrekage to some less populated area?
Remember when Richard Reid (aka shoebomber) was captured, US fighters escorted the airliner in for landing. THE MAN HAD ALREADY BEEN TIED UP! Only his nose was visible and he was barely able to breathe. YUP, letīs bring in the airforce scouts. Isnīt this showoff? If not, what is?
For those of you determined to sling insults at the AD boys, just imagine being the person who has to fire upon a fully laden airliner to prevent even worse loss of life. Sh1tty deal, but what other choice is there?
Remember when Richard Reid (aka shoebomber) was captured, US fighters escorted the airliner in for landing. THE MAN HAD ALREADY BEEN TIED UP! Only his nose was visible and he was barely able to breathe. YUP, letīs bring in the airforce scouts. Isnīt this showoff? If not, what is?