Just the tip of the iceberg......
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For those with long memories, Continental 64 (B707-324) LAX-HOU, was hijacked in 1963 and the perps were arrested after the tires were deflated by FBI agents. After this and many other incidents, the SkyMarshal program was initiated and for awhile the incidents stopped. IF this very wise program had been continued, the 5000+ souls in NY, DCA and PA would no doubt still be alive. Security is a tough business, not for the faint hearted. Just ask El Al.
The Delta CEO was crying poor today, after having just signed a record-breaking pilot contract a short time ago. When airlines accumulate cash in profitable times, it should be saved for the lean times that certainly follow. But no, they increase executive salaries, shop around for other airlines to purchase (usually a very bad idea)and have little chance to save after labor (especially pilots)demand their collective slice of the pie. Planning is very short term.
Timber--
Quite real actually, s/n 1212, first engine runs completed yesterday.
The Delta CEO was crying poor today, after having just signed a record-breaking pilot contract a short time ago. When airlines accumulate cash in profitable times, it should be saved for the lean times that certainly follow. But no, they increase executive salaries, shop around for other airlines to purchase (usually a very bad idea)and have little chance to save after labor (especially pilots)demand their collective slice of the pie. Planning is very short term.
Timber--
Quite real actually, s/n 1212, first engine runs completed yesterday.
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Take a look at the US Agricultural Omnibus Bill...if the US stopped subsidising the "most efficient" agricultural industry in the world there would be more than enough public money to assist industries most affected by this tragedy.
When major sports stars and business leaders receive 100's of thousands of dollars in agricultural subsidies then it's time for a rethink.
Just think of the positive political effect it would have globally...and especially in poor countries if they didn't have to compete against the worl's most subsidised agricultural industry...
FWIW
When major sports stars and business leaders receive 100's of thousands of dollars in agricultural subsidies then it's time for a rethink.
Just think of the positive political effect it would have globally...and especially in poor countries if they didn't have to compete against the worl's most subsidised agricultural industry...
FWIW
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OneWorld22,
I somehow don't think you are "feeling sorry" for pilots, but rather eager to spread the doom and gloom a bit further.
Regardless of what the markets are doing at present, unless the world is about to pack up the business WILL bounce back eventually, like it alwas has.
As to low salaries - this will create a SHORTAGE of pilots, because no one will agree to work for cr@p pay, having spent so much money getting the licence in the first place.
So just wait and see.
I somehow don't think you are "feeling sorry" for pilots, but rather eager to spread the doom and gloom a bit further.
Regardless of what the markets are doing at present, unless the world is about to pack up the business WILL bounce back eventually, like it alwas has.
As to low salaries - this will create a SHORTAGE of pilots, because no one will agree to work for cr@p pay, having spent so much money getting the licence in the first place.
So just wait and see.
Stelios you are living in cloud cookoo land my old son, anyone who has had a long time out of work, me for 14 months will tell you that the money the UK gov give you, and for me that was nothing at all will want to go back to work for any amount, believe me anything is better than nothing. What do you want these people to do, stay at home and spend what little of their savings that they have left just to boost their own little ego's, not a hope my old son, take the pay drop and grab everything you can cos if you don't the next guy will. This is the real world and like the ALPA ban on CX recruitment will not last long people need the work and when needs must!!!!!
Fergi
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411A-(hole)
I find it hard to comprehend how a tragedy that occurred less than two weeks ago can already be forgotten. You stated that the management should have planned ahead. How in the world do you plan on having your airplanes hi-jacked and flown into the WTC. Have you no human compassion Man? The relief requested was not exorbitant by any means with the majority of it in the form of loans, that will be paid back once the airline have recovered. From the gov’t point of view the money will come out of the tax payers pockets irregardless, where do you think unemployment funding is derived from, the unemployment fairy. Furthermore with you sour attitude I find it hard to believe that you have existed in the aviation business for 35 years, because you need friends to succeed in this business, of which I am certain you have very few, with your outlook on life in general.
I do agree with the fact that Airlines continuously overbook flights, and fought every proposal to beef up security that was presented a few years ago. Definite poor management and Board decisions driven by the almighty dollar, but to try to hold them responsible for this atrocity is incorrigible, and reeks of bad taste and bad form. That I feel is very inappropriate in the after map of this tragedy. Had the Airlines gotten into this financial burden due to flying public’s refusal to pay for the shoddy treatment they were receiving, then I would tend to agree that a request for financial support would be out of line; but that is not the case.
Good day to all.
I find it hard to comprehend how a tragedy that occurred less than two weeks ago can already be forgotten. You stated that the management should have planned ahead. How in the world do you plan on having your airplanes hi-jacked and flown into the WTC. Have you no human compassion Man? The relief requested was not exorbitant by any means with the majority of it in the form of loans, that will be paid back once the airline have recovered. From the gov’t point of view the money will come out of the tax payers pockets irregardless, where do you think unemployment funding is derived from, the unemployment fairy. Furthermore with you sour attitude I find it hard to believe that you have existed in the aviation business for 35 years, because you need friends to succeed in this business, of which I am certain you have very few, with your outlook on life in general.
I do agree with the fact that Airlines continuously overbook flights, and fought every proposal to beef up security that was presented a few years ago. Definite poor management and Board decisions driven by the almighty dollar, but to try to hold them responsible for this atrocity is incorrigible, and reeks of bad taste and bad form. That I feel is very inappropriate in the after map of this tragedy. Had the Airlines gotten into this financial burden due to flying public’s refusal to pay for the shoddy treatment they were receiving, then I would tend to agree that a request for financial support would be out of line; but that is not the case.
Good day to all.
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Dragon:
Taxpayers don't take kindly to wholsale CASH bailouts of airlines because indirectly, bloated pilots' salaries, exhorbitant management salaries, bonuses with "golden parachutes" are subsidized. Do you know how much money those gangster executives at USAir are pocketing? $Millions! Look into it. And now the likes of USAir Chairman Wolf is crying "wolf" and is asking for taxpayer money to bail out his mismanaged semi bankrupt airline.
[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
Taxpayers don't take kindly to wholsale CASH bailouts of airlines because indirectly, bloated pilots' salaries, exhorbitant management salaries, bonuses with "golden parachutes" are subsidized. Do you know how much money those gangster executives at USAir are pocketing? $Millions! Look into it. And now the likes of USAir Chairman Wolf is crying "wolf" and is asking for taxpayer money to bail out his mismanaged semi bankrupt airline.
[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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411 -
While a popular and blind blood-thirst is in the air, there is another well-documented side to this which is terrifying.
If one examines the scam of the "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution," which was the excuse for the Viet Nam War, Ambasador April gillespie's cryptic message to Hussein before the Gulf War, and the selectively ignored - and denied - warnings of the latest terrorist acts, one comes to a horrible conclusion which defies credible denial. The FAA's refusal to implement legitimate airport security is far too extreme to be a bureaucratic SNAFU.
Congress changed the law, governing the FAA, permitting what we saw on telivision and in the media.
There is no difference between knowingly permitting the obvious to happen; and making it happen.
As with Viet Nam and the Gulf War, the tax-based cash flow to Texas will be the barometer of truth in the matter. Few appreciate the Texas ownership of the expanded "Military-Industrial-Space and Energy Complex." Tracing actual corporate ownership is quite revealing.
The tax dollar figure granted to Texas based airlines will be a story by itself.
Passionate, dramatic and vitriolic protests to messages such as yours cannot alter facts or history.
It should not be forgotten that the current President's father announced the "New World Order." Despite passionate protests, that 'virtual entity' cannot be denied.
As radical as the statement may be, the documented history leads one to fear that we are looking at an enhanced version of Nazism, itself; to be known in history as the "New World Order."
The floor will now entertain the disinformationists.
While a popular and blind blood-thirst is in the air, there is another well-documented side to this which is terrifying.
If one examines the scam of the "Gulf of Tonkin Resolution," which was the excuse for the Viet Nam War, Ambasador April gillespie's cryptic message to Hussein before the Gulf War, and the selectively ignored - and denied - warnings of the latest terrorist acts, one comes to a horrible conclusion which defies credible denial. The FAA's refusal to implement legitimate airport security is far too extreme to be a bureaucratic SNAFU.
Congress changed the law, governing the FAA, permitting what we saw on telivision and in the media.
There is no difference between knowingly permitting the obvious to happen; and making it happen.
As with Viet Nam and the Gulf War, the tax-based cash flow to Texas will be the barometer of truth in the matter. Few appreciate the Texas ownership of the expanded "Military-Industrial-Space and Energy Complex." Tracing actual corporate ownership is quite revealing.
The tax dollar figure granted to Texas based airlines will be a story by itself.
Passionate, dramatic and vitriolic protests to messages such as yours cannot alter facts or history.
It should not be forgotten that the current President's father announced the "New World Order." Despite passionate protests, that 'virtual entity' cannot be denied.
As radical as the statement may be, the documented history leads one to fear that we are looking at an enhanced version of Nazism, itself; to be known in history as the "New World Order."
The floor will now entertain the disinformationists.
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It goes a lot further back than you think, SKYDRIFTER, all the way back to Dwight Eisenhower and his warnings of the military-industrial complex/association in 1955. But then, nobody was listening.
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411A,
You're right about not listening. Or, just selective listening. I attended one of the brave Flight Officer's Memorial Service and was shattered by how close the tragedy hit home and was continually between tears and rage throughout the last 11 days.
This senseless act of religious fanaticism and devotion to death will have profound effect forever. The criminal and military justice brought about should be sweeping, precise and irrevocable. The economic crisis created by the inhuman acts can be reversed by time, healing and a sense of security throughout interconnected economies.
The world changed on 11 Sept. However, on 10 Sept, UAL was on course to lose 1B USD during '01. From UAL's seats to flower vendors outside hotels to just about every corner of the travel industry, everyone was not in their usual economic stride.
Your thoughts on an industry beset by woes before 11 Sept. are both unnervingly accurate but punctuated by incredible insensitivity.
The bright side is that people everywhere, and their precious goods need to go places, and they will return. Airlines, and the travel industry in general will return. Their return will not be judged by your analysis, but by a return of the brisk growth opportunities it offered, the product so many enjoyed and the promise of a continued prosperity.
You're right about not listening. Or, just selective listening. I attended one of the brave Flight Officer's Memorial Service and was shattered by how close the tragedy hit home and was continually between tears and rage throughout the last 11 days.
This senseless act of religious fanaticism and devotion to death will have profound effect forever. The criminal and military justice brought about should be sweeping, precise and irrevocable. The economic crisis created by the inhuman acts can be reversed by time, healing and a sense of security throughout interconnected economies.
The world changed on 11 Sept. However, on 10 Sept, UAL was on course to lose 1B USD during '01. From UAL's seats to flower vendors outside hotels to just about every corner of the travel industry, everyone was not in their usual economic stride.
Your thoughts on an industry beset by woes before 11 Sept. are both unnervingly accurate but punctuated by incredible insensitivity.
The bright side is that people everywhere, and their precious goods need to go places, and they will return. Airlines, and the travel industry in general will return. Their return will not be judged by your analysis, but by a return of the brisk growth opportunities it offered, the product so many enjoyed and the promise of a continued prosperity.
