Shameful use of WTC disaster by US Airlines !!!
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Shameful use of WTC disaster by US Airlines !!!
Am I the only one around here outraged by those reports of thousands of airline employees to be furloughed "due to the terrorist attacks" ?
How dare they ?
Ours is a cyclic business. It is no secret that all major Us Airlines were about to announce HISTORIC losses PRIOR to those attacks.
It only took 2 days for Continental to announce 12000 furloughs ! about a week for Boeing (20000 to 30000 !) and United !!
Somewhere,in some plump office, bonus-assured management lowlifes are simply taking advantage of a tragedy to "get rid" of expensive employees and asking for federal help !
Good Lord !
what a world !!
How dare they ?
Ours is a cyclic business. It is no secret that all major Us Airlines were about to announce HISTORIC losses PRIOR to those attacks.
It only took 2 days for Continental to announce 12000 furloughs ! about a week for Boeing (20000 to 30000 !) and United !!
Somewhere,in some plump office, bonus-assured management lowlifes are simply taking advantage of a tragedy to "get rid" of expensive employees and asking for federal help !
Good Lord !
what a world !!
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crjo---
The last few days have not seen ANY execs from US airlines offer to take cuts in their oftentimes bloated salaries, nor have we seen any pilots (especially ALPA & APA) offer salary reductionas as a way to help keep in business, with the notable exception of the pilots at AirTran.
Well guys, who is going to step up to the plate first?
Any takers? ....Thought not.
The last few days have not seen ANY execs from US airlines offer to take cuts in their oftentimes bloated salaries, nor have we seen any pilots (especially ALPA & APA) offer salary reductionas as a way to help keep in business, with the notable exception of the pilots at AirTran.
Well guys, who is going to step up to the plate first?
Any takers? ....Thought not.
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CRJO
i disagree with your opinion
yes the airlines were going to report losses but not to the extent that they have to now after spending almost 1week with any revenue from passengers etc at all and still paying salaries etc.....
Also it is happening in Europe and being blamed on the WTC scenario so don't jump down on the US airlines so quickly.
Aer Lingus is shedding jobs and looking for government backing to survive because they are cutting back on their t/atlantic services and don't have the money.
In fact the London Times reports that the only airlines that will be left standing if this situation goes on without government aid to European airlines is the US airlines.
After all they are the ones who survived the deregulation days and kept some money for a rainy days. European airlines have always got government money of some sort until the EU put a stop to that and now that they have to stand on their own 2 feet they can't.
So don't bad mouth the US carriers for banding together and trying to survive when the European airlines having been doing just that for years gone by.
GET your fact RIGHT......also it may or may not be reported in Europe but other than the airlines other industries went to Washington that same day and met with Congress after the airline CEO's went in......
Get off your soap box and wake up to what's really happening over here...
i disagree with your opinion
yes the airlines were going to report losses but not to the extent that they have to now after spending almost 1week with any revenue from passengers etc at all and still paying salaries etc.....
Also it is happening in Europe and being blamed on the WTC scenario so don't jump down on the US airlines so quickly.
Aer Lingus is shedding jobs and looking for government backing to survive because they are cutting back on their t/atlantic services and don't have the money.
In fact the London Times reports that the only airlines that will be left standing if this situation goes on without government aid to European airlines is the US airlines.
After all they are the ones who survived the deregulation days and kept some money for a rainy days. European airlines have always got government money of some sort until the EU put a stop to that and now that they have to stand on their own 2 feet they can't.
So don't bad mouth the US carriers for banding together and trying to survive when the European airlines having been doing just that for years gone by.
GET your fact RIGHT......also it may or may not be reported in Europe but other than the airlines other industries went to Washington that same day and met with Congress after the airline CEO's went in......
Get off your soap box and wake up to what's really happening over here...
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The US Aviation industry was impacted as no other. No other industry in it's entirety was mandated to stand down on a moments notice. The costs incured are stagering, threatening the very existence of several carriers. If the airlines followed some standard convention for national mourning there may not be very many airlines around to bail out. This business is very "fixed costs" heavy and you don't see the banks telling the airlines that there's no need to send this months lease payment on that Boeing. An inadequate aviation security system and an inadequate intelligence community that costs tons of money failed to prevent an incident that has reduced the flow of customers to a trickle. Insurance companies are notifying airlines that liability premiums may increase 4 or 5 times their previous level. This industry is in peril, immediate peril, and despite our sorrow at the loss of life that the middle-east has impose upon us these issues have to be addressed NOW.
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Call me cynical, but I think crjo has a point. If AA/CA/BA/VS announced thousands of job losses at any time, the negative publicity would be huge. But now, there really isn't any negative publicity at all. Any airline that was planning any scaling down (as most of them must have been, given the imminent recession), now is an easy time to do it. They don't even have to be nice and offer voluntary redundancies etc. They can just kick people out and say 'WTC attack, sorry but nothing we can do' etc etc. It is an easy bandwagon to jump on, and I think that unfortunately the airlines won't be the first to do it.
PS: Tony Blair - if you have any more ridiculous pay rises that you would like to give yourself... now's the time.
Sorry to be flippant, but I think there is an element of truth in what I say.
Samson.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: samson. ]
PS: Tony Blair - if you have any more ridiculous pay rises that you would like to give yourself... now's the time.
Sorry to be flippant, but I think there is an element of truth in what I say.
Samson.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: samson. ]
Samson:-
Pots and black kettles, stones and glass houses,
For the last few months all we have heard from you overpaid drivers is that you will be demanding a 20% increase in basic pay, so don't give me any cr@p about Tony Blair upping his salary. I for one would not like to be in his shoes today not even for your salary/expenses/profit share/etc!!!!!
Pots and black kettles, stones and glass houses,
For the last few months all we have heard from you overpaid drivers is that you will be demanding a 20% increase in basic pay, so don't give me any cr@p about Tony Blair upping his salary. I for one would not like to be in his shoes today not even for your salary/expenses/profit share/etc!!!!!
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You iriots on here suffer from pp disease - Pilot paranoia. You really , really think that airline management get down on their knees, praying for a recession or downturn, just so that they can make pilots redundant. You sad, sad, people if you dont realise that having to lay people off keeps us awake at night, painfully aware of the consequences to all employees and their families.
It is grossly offensive to suggest that we specially relish firing pilots, and in that respect, I have to tell you that you are not special folk and that we would not treat you differently from others when forced to keep the airline running.
What is it with you pilots - just why do you think you are so special?
It is grossly offensive to suggest that we specially relish firing pilots, and in that respect, I have to tell you that you are not special folk and that we would not treat you differently from others when forced to keep the airline running.
What is it with you pilots - just why do you think you are so special?
I had an arsehole transplant but the arsehole rejected me, which is why I write such rubbish
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CRJO;
I'm not outraged, I'm very supportive of most major corporations in the U.S to limit or downright ban employee travel.
I've seen what's left of the WTC first-hand. Until somebody tells me it's safe to fly in the U.S and I normally do in excess of 50K miles a year, I'm staying right here in New York.
Go look at the rubble if you need a reason why.
Andy Morrell
I'm not outraged, I'm very supportive of most major corporations in the U.S to limit or downright ban employee travel.
I've seen what's left of the WTC first-hand. Until somebody tells me it's safe to fly in the U.S and I normally do in excess of 50K miles a year, I'm staying right here in New York.
Go look at the rubble if you need a reason why.
Andy Morrell
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whatshouldiuse,
I'm about to offend a great many people here but do you realize what you are saying?
By not flying you have given in to terrorism and showed the terrorists that attacks receive results. You better stay inside and board up your windows as well. I know five or six thousand people have lost their lives here and it is very tragic, but 21 000 Americans die each year in the US as a result of gun shot wounds...I won't even go into car accidents!
As well, there may have been trouble in the industry before all of this happened, but make no mistake, crjo, this is not the fault of airlines. This is a massive, massive failure in national intelligence and security. 20 or so hijackers get on four planes at exactly the same time and the government has no clue? You're right, the US government should keep the aid package and use it to defend themselves against the thousands of lawsuits their people should be filing against them.
I don't mean to disrespect or dishonour any of the victims or those affected, but the FBI, the CIA, and the Secret Service failed miserably and thats the hard truth
I'm about to offend a great many people here but do you realize what you are saying?
By not flying you have given in to terrorism and showed the terrorists that attacks receive results. You better stay inside and board up your windows as well. I know five or six thousand people have lost their lives here and it is very tragic, but 21 000 Americans die each year in the US as a result of gun shot wounds...I won't even go into car accidents!
As well, there may have been trouble in the industry before all of this happened, but make no mistake, crjo, this is not the fault of airlines. This is a massive, massive failure in national intelligence and security. 20 or so hijackers get on four planes at exactly the same time and the government has no clue? You're right, the US government should keep the aid package and use it to defend themselves against the thousands of lawsuits their people should be filing against them.
I don't mean to disrespect or dishonour any of the victims or those affected, but the FBI, the CIA, and the Secret Service failed miserably and thats the hard truth
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Sir Kitt Braker - I think you are missing crjo's point. The point he is making is that the recession would have caused the loss of many jobs anyway, and the airlines are using the WTC attack as an excuse. He is not saying that the airlines are 'praying for a recession or downturn, just so that they can make pilots redundant', he is saying that the jobs would go anyway and they are using the WTC attack as their reasoning, rather than the recession.
Hovis - I am not a commercial pilot. I used Tony Blair's salary as an example. What I meant is that if there were to be anything controversial that TB wanted to do, now would be the time to do it (in the same way as crjo has implied that the airlines may be doing).
I am not trying to offend anyone. This is a discussion forum. Is it entirely unreasonable to discuss?
Samson.
Hovis - I am not a commercial pilot. I used Tony Blair's salary as an example. What I meant is that if there were to be anything controversial that TB wanted to do, now would be the time to do it (in the same way as crjo has implied that the airlines may be doing).
I am not trying to offend anyone. This is a discussion forum. Is it entirely unreasonable to discuss?
Samson.
I had an arsehole transplant but the arsehole rejected me, which is why I write such rubbish
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Aviatter;
I'm not giving into terroism. My God, I've seen first hand the horror and evil terrorists can cause.
Until however, the U.S changes the security system, what has changed to stop these people doing it again? The U.S cannot change security overnight, next week or next month. It's logistically impossible.
I commute from upstate New York through Grand Central, Times Square and Penn Station. Sure the police are out with dogs and sure there is a beautiful memorial in the Subway station in Times Square, but do you have any idea of the terror I feel when the train leaves Harlem and 125th street and the train is in a tunnel for the next 4 miles?
If you do, be sure to let me know how I'm giving into terrorists. All I want to do is feel safe...sorry if my response offended anyone.
Andy Morrell
[ 20 September 2001: Message edited by: whatshouldiuse ]
I'm not giving into terroism. My God, I've seen first hand the horror and evil terrorists can cause.
Until however, the U.S changes the security system, what has changed to stop these people doing it again? The U.S cannot change security overnight, next week or next month. It's logistically impossible.
I commute from upstate New York through Grand Central, Times Square and Penn Station. Sure the police are out with dogs and sure there is a beautiful memorial in the Subway station in Times Square, but do you have any idea of the terror I feel when the train leaves Harlem and 125th street and the train is in a tunnel for the next 4 miles?
If you do, be sure to let me know how I'm giving into terrorists. All I want to do is feel safe...sorry if my response offended anyone.
Andy Morrell
[ 20 September 2001: Message edited by: whatshouldiuse ]
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My poor friend SKB, my heart bleeds for you, having to take time out from surfing the beaches of SKB to worry about your soon to be unemployed workers. 
Just what industry are you in?
I'm sure it is not aviation, so what's your game?
You're not a failed management wannabe by any chance?
I just have a feeling I might know you from somewhere, but can't quite place it. Trouble is, you all sound so much alike to me that I can't separate you.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: SunSeaSandfly ]
Just what industry are you in?
I'm sure it is not aviation, so what's your game?
You're not a failed management wannabe by any chance?
I just have a feeling I might know you from somewhere, but can't quite place it. Trouble is, you all sound so much alike to me that I can't separate you.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: SunSeaSandfly ]
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Yhe US airlines are after a bailout from the government (=taxpayers). I say they should get it only if they do not sack ANY employees! If they make the numbers redundant that they claim they will, they should not get one penny.
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Sir Kitt Braker. I find your remarks very offensive. You claim to have an ALTP/737 rating yet you ask "..why do you (pilots) think you are so special?" You mean you don't know? Why don't you ask the 8 pilots who were murdered last Tuesday?
Fact; take the pilot out of the aviation equation and what do you have? A "MUSEUM", a "BLACK HOLE".
Hundreds of thousands of people in the aviation and related industries make their money simply because PILOTS FLY AIRPLANES. We don't fly, they don't eat.
Yes, we are very special !!!
The main problem with the pilot profession is that we don't unite. If we did, we wouldn't have to put up with all the crap that's thrown at us on a daily basis.
That's how this pilot feels and I am sure there are others who feel the same way.
Fact; take the pilot out of the aviation equation and what do you have? A "MUSEUM", a "BLACK HOLE".
Hundreds of thousands of people in the aviation and related industries make their money simply because PILOTS FLY AIRPLANES. We don't fly, they don't eat.
Yes, we are very special !!!
The main problem with the pilot profession is that we don't unite. If we did, we wouldn't have to put up with all the crap that's thrown at us on a daily basis.
That's how this pilot feels and I am sure there are others who feel the same way.
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CRJO, a minor point. Not all US major airlines were leaking $$$. We at Southwest posted a profit last quarter, and despite the tragic events of 9/11, the company is committed to keeping all of us aboard if at all possible. I do agree however, that one unfortunate outcome of a gov't bailout will be that taxpayers dollars will be used to insulate some airline management (not SWA) from the normal results of their incompetence.