Ryanair pilots paying to keep their jobs ?
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Ryanair/Buzz
Oh please all of u are making me wanna vomit. Buzz was like Debonair, trying to cater for all tastes, premium and Cheapies....never works. Ryanair and MOL are the best thing that ever happened to the European Airline Industry... It just sounds to me like all you pilots like to work for cute airlines that dont ask much of you, maybe 6 hours work a week and pay you loads for it. My god! Unfortunately the harsh reality is that pilots are providing public transport. If its safer than driving a bus, a car, a train or a boat then perhaps the pay should reflect the risk too. In this case- very slim.
I admire MOL and respect him a great deal. I think most people that fly Ryanair do too. If the pilots were that pissed off they'd all leave and go to Bastard Airways (BA).
Ok reading back over this, maybe i've been too harsh....but come on you must get my point deep down. Everyone seems to get so lovey dovey about defunct failed and bust airlines...and that gets me
I admire MOL and respect him a great deal. I think most people that fly Ryanair do too. If the pilots were that pissed off they'd all leave and go to Bastard Airways (BA).
Ok reading back over this, maybe i've been too harsh....but come on you must get my point deep down. Everyone seems to get so lovey dovey about defunct failed and bust airlines...and that gets me
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Ryanair Lottery Opens - Who is Lovejet?
Lovejet. What a nice name. But what strange sentiments. Vomit indeed!!
They seem rather ideological, not to mention disparaging about pilots. And so positive about the skills our revered great leader Kim Il MOL.
Are you just a free roving free-enterprise and capitalist spirit?
Or do you also eminate from the depths of the evil empire?
What dear readers, on a scale of 1 to 100, are the odds that this is a manifestation of the latter affliction?
If it does come from a certain desk, you already know that we are aware you have PPRuNe alive and well in your offices (cause the occasional visitor has seen it!). But you are going to have to do a lot better than these periodic, pathetic and almost transparent efforts under a new disguise.
You still have not got it. You are in the deepest of deep dodo. This time the more you intimidate us, the greater the anger.
Long may it last.
They seem rather ideological, not to mention disparaging about pilots. And so positive about the skills our revered great leader Kim Il MOL.
Are you just a free roving free-enterprise and capitalist spirit?
Or do you also eminate from the depths of the evil empire?
What dear readers, on a scale of 1 to 100, are the odds that this is a manifestation of the latter affliction?
If it does come from a certain desk, you already know that we are aware you have PPRuNe alive and well in your offices (cause the occasional visitor has seen it!). But you are going to have to do a lot better than these periodic, pathetic and almost transparent efforts under a new disguise.
You still have not got it. You are in the deepest of deep dodo. This time the more you intimidate us, the greater the anger.
Long may it last.
Lovejet...
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Latest Reasons to Fight Like Terriers - Ryanair eats its children.
How about this: F/Os pays for type rating (as normal). Not paid anything until the safety pilot disappears on the line. Then goes onto half sector pay. No basic pay until final line check (what does “Basic pay” mean in FR?). Remain on half sector pay until probation is finished. (With the possibility that the basic pay will in the coming months be even lower than currently expected - already under £10k p.a.).
Add this to the mix: all new captains will have a clause in their contract that, if and when called upon, they can become (unpaid) line trainers. So, some time after their promotion we will have an unpaid trainer on “new contract” command money with a “half sector pay F/O” making for a rather cheap crew. Of course, the line training requirement will then be increased “to maintain standards” and, incidentally, extend the period on half sector pay. Rather neat! (The opening gambits in this scenario are REAL. It is just starting, but it is already here).
And some (an ever smaller minority) of the existing pilots still think that this kind of action does not have anything to do with them. Fools. They will learn in the end that their lot will be no better. In the end they too will be given an offer they cannot refuse. Variants of this game have already been played out.
Ryanair eats its children.
Add this to the mix: all new captains will have a clause in their contract that, if and when called upon, they can become (unpaid) line trainers. So, some time after their promotion we will have an unpaid trainer on “new contract” command money with a “half sector pay F/O” making for a rather cheap crew. Of course, the line training requirement will then be increased “to maintain standards” and, incidentally, extend the period on half sector pay. Rather neat! (The opening gambits in this scenario are REAL. It is just starting, but it is already here).
And some (an ever smaller minority) of the existing pilots still think that this kind of action does not have anything to do with them. Fools. They will learn in the end that their lot will be no better. In the end they too will be given an offer they cannot refuse. Variants of this game have already been played out.
Ryanair eats its children.
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I was appalled, but not at all suprised to be invited to apply online and pay 50 of my hard earned pounds for the priviledge of joining the company in all but name i have been flying for the last 16 months. The interviews were a complete farce!!!!!!!!. I was also dissapoimted during the town hall meetings to see so many colleagues almost in tears when presented with the prospect of not getting permanent contracts at Stn . Some of the bleeting that was going on was frankly embarassing , ie ("I've written a letter to BALPA to not the pursue the TUPE case on my behalf and your still not giving us a permanent position"), and in some cases people actually admitted resigning from BALPA, obviously thinking it would gain them some kind of favour with FR management ,well it did'nt not surprisingly . In fact some of the newer Buzz guys have nothing to do with KLM/FR TUPE case because they joined afterwards but are still being offered the same lousy deal regardless. proof if ever there was needed that this has everything to do with getting people onto the most diverse and cheapest range of contracts going , it also serves to divide and conquer . For Gods sake guys show some principle's and a bit of backbone for everyones sake.
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Some things in life are hard to swallow, and one of the hardest is to accept that you are getting whipped and treated like a dog.
If you don't stand up to the whipping now, you will be whipped around for the rest of your career. I know you think "it's not great pay, but its my first jet job/command and once I get a few hours I'll apply to x/y/z" but by the time you get a few hours x/y/z have seen that pilots have been forced to work for less in the LCC's et al and their remunerations dropped accordingly. But you'll make a go at x/y/z because "it might not be great pay but it's my first heavy, I'll get a few hours, maybe a year and then I'll apply to A/B/C".
All's well then some economic / security / political upheaval might come along and the industry will "flatten out" and your year turns into 5 but you stick it out because at least it's a job and when the industry picks up again, you'll be well in line for one of the top jobs.....and thankfully the interview from A/B/C comes along but the pay package at A/B/C has dropped a bit because for the last best part of a decade A/B/C've been cropping their packages because pilots in the feeder airlines have been working for far less because it's all they could do to hold a job down. You'll have to keep the old banger going for a bit longer but "at least I'm in".
The LCC's are having a very negative effect on the whole industry, turning what used to be a priviledged way of travel into "cheap travel for the masses". Individuals controlling airlines shouting "I'm turning this business inside out, standing it on its ear and showing the world just how easy and cheap it really can be". Cutting salaries to ridiculous levels and then still face-slapping by making them pay for own uniforms, it's easy, they'll kill each other for these jobs!
It's negative for all employees in the whole, worldwide, industry, and negative for the whole worldwide industry itself.
Let's not kid ourselves whose side we're on here - the side of the professional pilot's. Our lifestyle has declined. The more and more punters we fly through increasingly congested skies for less and less money and worse and worse hotels and perks contributes directly to our lower salaries, worse perks and more work. Now every year more and more million passengers pass through our airports and congest them. How much more unpleasant travelling by air has become. The parking, the check-in, the security, the lounges, the aircraft themselves - all overcrowded, congested and a thoroughly unpleasant experience compared to what it used to be. All a huge rush to maintain the schedule, get the level, get some sleep..
The industry certainly is not what it once was, cost-cutting being the eroding factor but cheap large credit being the main culprit. Instead of a few passengers at a high price, a lot of pax at a lower price equals more profit. How to shift lots of pax? More shiny airplanes. More cash. More credit.
How many of you have heard this one? "Uhm, sorry guys, no raises this year, the company's on thin ice" or this one "please, you've got to be flexible the company's got a bit of a cash flow problem", or just a plain Staff Memo noting "that due to the unfavourable financial climate, salary adjustments will be delayed this year" ?? So we all take it because "its bound to improve". But it won't it is a changing industry, morphing from a highly-paid flag-carrier pilot's job with long stopovers in great hotels with lots of time off times of the very early days to the underpaid pilots job with bags under eyes smiling a quick hello to everyone he sees at 4.30 am every morning for a week. Its become a mass-transit system funded by ever lower and lower fares. Its pilots a lot poorer than they once were.
Funny because the pilots are some of the people who have the greatest amount of leverage over the company, if they decided not to fly, there would be a lot of revenue lost. This could break a company very easily, especially if the strike were a industry-wide one. Far more easily than sometimes imagined. Look at airlines like Swiss, who would have thought that they would have gone under? These companies need very large credit and they operate very close to the redline. Why ? To have more aircraft to ferry more and more people around the globe for cheaper and cheaper fares. But hang on...that doesn't sound right? How can you fly more yet do it cheaper? When the only income you have is passenger fares, how can you reduce them and yet buy more and more multi-million dollar jets to operate with? Where is the debt accumulating? In the credit line of the airline. The airlines are diluting themselves to get larger, ergo our lifestyles get diluted.
We can stop it and it is only in our own interests to stop it. I'm not saying 'we as an industry must blah blah...it doesn't work. What I am saying though, is that as a individuals, within yourself, decide, realise that we are getting whipped like dog and and need to stand up for ourselves and say, no. I'm worth more than that, I'll wait for a better offer, and not take the badly-paying job in the meantime. And I'll let them know why, it was because the pay was too low. You've got to know that you are doing it for your future, to secure your future 20 or 35 years in the industry as a proud, well-paid professional, as part of a team of brethren pilots all over the world that you will greet with a smile at every far-flung destination you go to, not a cowed dog who works for peanuts and avoids the eyes of his fellow pilots. It might not take as long as you think, it wouldn't be a matter of years...if a lot of the applicants for a lot of the jobs waited just a few months, the situation would improve fast when the pilots weren't turning up by the financial due date, multiple rejections due to 'too low pay'.
Don't help to dilute your own life.
If you don't stand up to the whipping now, you will be whipped around for the rest of your career. I know you think "it's not great pay, but its my first jet job/command and once I get a few hours I'll apply to x/y/z" but by the time you get a few hours x/y/z have seen that pilots have been forced to work for less in the LCC's et al and their remunerations dropped accordingly. But you'll make a go at x/y/z because "it might not be great pay but it's my first heavy, I'll get a few hours, maybe a year and then I'll apply to A/B/C".
All's well then some economic / security / political upheaval might come along and the industry will "flatten out" and your year turns into 5 but you stick it out because at least it's a job and when the industry picks up again, you'll be well in line for one of the top jobs.....and thankfully the interview from A/B/C comes along but the pay package at A/B/C has dropped a bit because for the last best part of a decade A/B/C've been cropping their packages because pilots in the feeder airlines have been working for far less because it's all they could do to hold a job down. You'll have to keep the old banger going for a bit longer but "at least I'm in".
The LCC's are having a very negative effect on the whole industry, turning what used to be a priviledged way of travel into "cheap travel for the masses". Individuals controlling airlines shouting "I'm turning this business inside out, standing it on its ear and showing the world just how easy and cheap it really can be". Cutting salaries to ridiculous levels and then still face-slapping by making them pay for own uniforms, it's easy, they'll kill each other for these jobs!
It's negative for all employees in the whole, worldwide, industry, and negative for the whole worldwide industry itself.
Let's not kid ourselves whose side we're on here - the side of the professional pilot's. Our lifestyle has declined. The more and more punters we fly through increasingly congested skies for less and less money and worse and worse hotels and perks contributes directly to our lower salaries, worse perks and more work. Now every year more and more million passengers pass through our airports and congest them. How much more unpleasant travelling by air has become. The parking, the check-in, the security, the lounges, the aircraft themselves - all overcrowded, congested and a thoroughly unpleasant experience compared to what it used to be. All a huge rush to maintain the schedule, get the level, get some sleep..
The industry certainly is not what it once was, cost-cutting being the eroding factor but cheap large credit being the main culprit. Instead of a few passengers at a high price, a lot of pax at a lower price equals more profit. How to shift lots of pax? More shiny airplanes. More cash. More credit.
How many of you have heard this one? "Uhm, sorry guys, no raises this year, the company's on thin ice" or this one "please, you've got to be flexible the company's got a bit of a cash flow problem", or just a plain Staff Memo noting "that due to the unfavourable financial climate, salary adjustments will be delayed this year" ?? So we all take it because "its bound to improve". But it won't it is a changing industry, morphing from a highly-paid flag-carrier pilot's job with long stopovers in great hotels with lots of time off times of the very early days to the underpaid pilots job with bags under eyes smiling a quick hello to everyone he sees at 4.30 am every morning for a week. Its become a mass-transit system funded by ever lower and lower fares. Its pilots a lot poorer than they once were.
Funny because the pilots are some of the people who have the greatest amount of leverage over the company, if they decided not to fly, there would be a lot of revenue lost. This could break a company very easily, especially if the strike were a industry-wide one. Far more easily than sometimes imagined. Look at airlines like Swiss, who would have thought that they would have gone under? These companies need very large credit and they operate very close to the redline. Why ? To have more aircraft to ferry more and more people around the globe for cheaper and cheaper fares. But hang on...that doesn't sound right? How can you fly more yet do it cheaper? When the only income you have is passenger fares, how can you reduce them and yet buy more and more multi-million dollar jets to operate with? Where is the debt accumulating? In the credit line of the airline. The airlines are diluting themselves to get larger, ergo our lifestyles get diluted.
We can stop it and it is only in our own interests to stop it. I'm not saying 'we as an industry must blah blah...it doesn't work. What I am saying though, is that as a individuals, within yourself, decide, realise that we are getting whipped like dog and and need to stand up for ourselves and say, no. I'm worth more than that, I'll wait for a better offer, and not take the badly-paying job in the meantime. And I'll let them know why, it was because the pay was too low. You've got to know that you are doing it for your future, to secure your future 20 or 35 years in the industry as a proud, well-paid professional, as part of a team of brethren pilots all over the world that you will greet with a smile at every far-flung destination you go to, not a cowed dog who works for peanuts and avoids the eyes of his fellow pilots. It might not take as long as you think, it wouldn't be a matter of years...if a lot of the applicants for a lot of the jobs waited just a few months, the situation would improve fast when the pilots weren't turning up by the financial due date, multiple rejections due to 'too low pay'.
Don't help to dilute your own life.
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Don't help to dilute your own life
Some things in life are hard to swallow, and one of the hardest is to accept that you are getting whipped and treated like a dog.
You got it all in one - summed up in a single posting. What you said should be printed, framed and put up on the wall by all aspiring professional pilots, whether they be in Ryanair or elsewhere.
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Having paid £50, the new deal is now conveniently conducted through some Ryanair scam agency who insist on the signing away yet again of any previous agreements or deals for a three year contract. Around £50k for a captain, water not included. Sad and getting worse by the day.
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"Some of MAD MICK'S ex Brittania 200s date back to around 1969
YES some are rotting at PIK but not all"
Rumour has it an EAL 200 was refused by the ground engineers to depart from Lasham cos of excessive corrosion on the rear spar.Sounds like the 200's really are on their last legs.
Whatever happened to the CAA ?
Apparently there's a whole bunch of people in this rather large grey building in the gatwick area responsible for the safe and continued airworthiness of all aircraft operating within the uk.Anybody seen any of them about ?
The atmosphere at the harped airline sounds terrible,with low pay, cabin staff that cannot organize a routine evacuation,pilots p.......d off and a MD that clearly dosn't give a t..ss about any of his staff.History tells us its an accident waiting to happen.
"Some of MAD MICK'S ex Brittania 200s date back to around 1969
YES some are rotting at PIK but not all"
Rumour has it an EAL 200 was refused by the ground engineers to depart from Lasham cos of excessive corrosion on the rear spar.Sounds like the 200's really are on their last legs.
Whatever happened to the CAA ?
Apparently there's a whole bunch of people in this rather large grey building in the gatwick area responsible for the safe and continued airworthiness of all aircraft operating within the uk.Anybody seen any of them about ?
The atmosphere at the harped airline sounds terrible,with low pay, cabin staff that cannot organize a routine evacuation,pilots p.......d off and a MD that clearly dosn't give a t..ss about any of his staff.History tells us its an accident waiting to happen.
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Standto - the IAA covers most of Ryanair's operations. And what they will say to anyone who mouths off about Ryanair is simple: "if you have solid and specific evidence of Ryanair safety deficiencies we will act upon that information, but we will not deal in rumours". And then things normally go silent. Which when you think about it is a rather interesting turn of events.
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So, if you blow someone in to trading standards, they will at least go and have a look, but the IAA won't unless they are presented with the evidence.
I think I will suggest something similar in my line of work;
" Mrs Bloggs, your house may well have been burgled, but you will have to come to us with some real evidence before we do anything!"
I think I will suggest something similar in my line of work;
" Mrs Bloggs, your house may well have been burgled, but you will have to come to us with some real evidence before we do anything!"
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STANDTO, I think you may have missed the point of my short reply. Obviously the said airline meets all JAA requirements - both on paper and on inspection. If you think that is nonsense then you will need to produce some evidence. Which is where we started.
If you think the approach of the CAA would be any different you are misinformed. Try ANY authority with a "everyone knows X" but without any supporting evidence for "X" other than hearsay and see how far it gets you. BTW, whatever about the Ryanair culture, the training standards are probably not a lot different from comparable airlines. It's just that the attention the airline gets for other – highly justifiable - reasons tends to rub off into training and other areas.
It is easy for those of us strongly opposed to all that Ryanair stands for to be tempted into overstating our case. However, in case you misunderstand me, I am very strongly opposed to the Ryanair way of doing business with its pilots (and its denial of representation). There is more than enough evidence to support the argument that they behave very badly towards their employees. I am more than happy to argue that case.
If you think the approach of the CAA would be any different you are misinformed. Try ANY authority with a "everyone knows X" but without any supporting evidence for "X" other than hearsay and see how far it gets you. BTW, whatever about the Ryanair culture, the training standards are probably not a lot different from comparable airlines. It's just that the attention the airline gets for other – highly justifiable - reasons tends to rub off into training and other areas.
It is easy for those of us strongly opposed to all that Ryanair stands for to be tempted into overstating our case. However, in case you misunderstand me, I am very strongly opposed to the Ryanair way of doing business with its pilots (and its denial of representation). There is more than enough evidence to support the argument that they behave very badly towards their employees. I am more than happy to argue that case.
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For the record none of the RYR 200's date back to 1969 as was claimed earlier.The oldest one is 1980.
I don't see how the reference to a EAL aircraft has any relevance to the condition of Ryanair's 200's.
I don't see how the reference to a EAL aircraft has any relevance to the condition of Ryanair's 200's.
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Is it down to knocking Ryanair 737-200s now just for the sake of it?
Well, just to let you know there are some really clapped out British registered 737-300s out there too.
I know because I was on two in the last week, the second of which caused a more than 12 hour delay. I was also on two FR flights last week. Both new 738s and both landed ahead of scheduled and one by up to 20 minutes.
Well, just to let you know there are some really clapped out British registered 737-300s out there too.
I know because I was on two in the last week, the second of which caused a more than 12 hour delay. I was also on two FR flights last week. Both new 738s and both landed ahead of scheduled and one by up to 20 minutes.
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just a rumour
heard from a friend that at least two of the buzz cadre(2 captains) cut a private deal with fr to recieve a permanent contract and a base in cia in return for signing a disclaimer that they would have no further links with buzz or any legal actions on their behalf.very astute on their part but not very caring about their brethern.