Pilot fatigue grows as problem for airlines
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Pilot fatigue grows as problem for airlines
Pilot fatigue grows as problem for airlines
As the industry's finances worsen, pilots fret about falling asleep at the controls as flying hours get longer.
By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
NEW YORK – The nation's top airlines are still wallowing in red ink, and their pilots are tired - some literally exhausted.
Or so says Jane Meher. That's not her real name. As a pilot who's not a union official, she says she's forbidden by contract to talk to the press. Still, she was concerned enough about what she sees as a deteriorating safety standard that she came forward. And so did others.
"Every pilot I talk to feels like they're being pushed to the limit," says Captain Meher. "It hasn't created a problem yet, but it could."
Fatigue has long been one of the top problems on the list of "Most Wanted Safety Fixes" from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Since the 2001 recession and Sept. 11 plunged the major airlines into a financial sinkhole, pilots say the fatigue problem has gotten steadily worse. And it's reaching a nadir during this summer's peak travel season, with airline staffing pared down and more Americans returning to the skies.
Part of the problem is that many pilots are flying more hours than ever before because of work-rule concessions they made to try to help the financially strapped carriers. Another factor is what critics call the archaic Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules governing how much rest pilots should get between flights. The current ones were developed in 1985, when the airline industry was entirely different. Critics contend that on one hand, they're inadequate in terms of ensuring the pilot gets a good night's rest - and on the other hand, their inflexibility ends up complicating scheduling, which can exacerbate the fatigue problem.
The major airlines and the FAA acknowledge that economic challenges have put new pressures on pilots, but each also insists that safety has not been compromised in any way.
"Our rules set a minimum standard that provides for safe flight in this country," says Alison Duquette, an FAA spokeswoman. "We believe [they are] are still providing for safe flight."
Experts hope Ms. Duquette is right, but they also say the complaints about fatigue reflect a basic problem with carriers like American, United, and Delta: They're operating with unsustainable cost structures and are inherently inefficient. To survive, they'll need to change fundamentally. "I think they finally get it, but I'm not sure they can do it," says Richard Gritta, an aviation expert at the University of Portland in Oregon.
Since 1993, the NTSB has cited fatigue as a contributing factor in three commercial airline accidents. The most recent was the July 2002 crash of a FedEx cargo jet in Tallahassee, Fla. In that case, the pilots were flying on "the backside of the clock" - aviation jargon for a late-night, early-morning shift. Last month the NTSB noted pointedly in findings on the crash that more research needs to be done on such flights.
Pilots whom the Monitor spoke with seconded that, saying that's even more important now that strapped airlines try to cover more flights with fewer flight crews. It's not only that crews are flying more hours, but they're also working far more erratic schedules. One captain of a major airline says he's scheduled to fly for two days, one all-nighter, and then for two days again. "That's when you have the major fatigue problem," says the captain, who didn't want his name used. "Just try sleeping in the middle of the day, particularly in a hotel room. 'Do not disturb' signs don't mean anything to the maids."
A spokesman for the Air Transport Association, the lobbying arm of the major airlines, acknowledges that some carriers are working to increase productivity to keep costs down. "But we adamantly are not going to do that at the cost of safety," says Jack Evans.
But pilots unions aren't satisfied that is the case. They've been pushing the FAA to update fatigue rules since the early 1990s. In 1995, the FAA proposed some changes, but since then the issue has languished in political limbo - because the airlines and pilots can't agree on new rules, and the FAA is reluctant to impose them.
"We're not holding our breath because years ago they were saying that new rules were imminent, and it keeps getting pushed back," says Bill Edmunds, a fatigue specialist at the Allied Pilots Association. "But we're still trying to get some action on it."
LINK
As the industry's finances worsen, pilots fret about falling asleep at the controls as flying hours get longer.
By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
NEW YORK – The nation's top airlines are still wallowing in red ink, and their pilots are tired - some literally exhausted.
Or so says Jane Meher. That's not her real name. As a pilot who's not a union official, she says she's forbidden by contract to talk to the press. Still, she was concerned enough about what she sees as a deteriorating safety standard that she came forward. And so did others.
"Every pilot I talk to feels like they're being pushed to the limit," says Captain Meher. "It hasn't created a problem yet, but it could."
Fatigue has long been one of the top problems on the list of "Most Wanted Safety Fixes" from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Since the 2001 recession and Sept. 11 plunged the major airlines into a financial sinkhole, pilots say the fatigue problem has gotten steadily worse. And it's reaching a nadir during this summer's peak travel season, with airline staffing pared down and more Americans returning to the skies.
Part of the problem is that many pilots are flying more hours than ever before because of work-rule concessions they made to try to help the financially strapped carriers. Another factor is what critics call the archaic Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) rules governing how much rest pilots should get between flights. The current ones were developed in 1985, when the airline industry was entirely different. Critics contend that on one hand, they're inadequate in terms of ensuring the pilot gets a good night's rest - and on the other hand, their inflexibility ends up complicating scheduling, which can exacerbate the fatigue problem.
The major airlines and the FAA acknowledge that economic challenges have put new pressures on pilots, but each also insists that safety has not been compromised in any way.
"Our rules set a minimum standard that provides for safe flight in this country," says Alison Duquette, an FAA spokeswoman. "We believe [they are] are still providing for safe flight."
Experts hope Ms. Duquette is right, but they also say the complaints about fatigue reflect a basic problem with carriers like American, United, and Delta: They're operating with unsustainable cost structures and are inherently inefficient. To survive, they'll need to change fundamentally. "I think they finally get it, but I'm not sure they can do it," says Richard Gritta, an aviation expert at the University of Portland in Oregon.
Since 1993, the NTSB has cited fatigue as a contributing factor in three commercial airline accidents. The most recent was the July 2002 crash of a FedEx cargo jet in Tallahassee, Fla. In that case, the pilots were flying on "the backside of the clock" - aviation jargon for a late-night, early-morning shift. Last month the NTSB noted pointedly in findings on the crash that more research needs to be done on such flights.
Pilots whom the Monitor spoke with seconded that, saying that's even more important now that strapped airlines try to cover more flights with fewer flight crews. It's not only that crews are flying more hours, but they're also working far more erratic schedules. One captain of a major airline says he's scheduled to fly for two days, one all-nighter, and then for two days again. "That's when you have the major fatigue problem," says the captain, who didn't want his name used. "Just try sleeping in the middle of the day, particularly in a hotel room. 'Do not disturb' signs don't mean anything to the maids."
A spokesman for the Air Transport Association, the lobbying arm of the major airlines, acknowledges that some carriers are working to increase productivity to keep costs down. "But we adamantly are not going to do that at the cost of safety," says Jack Evans.
But pilots unions aren't satisfied that is the case. They've been pushing the FAA to update fatigue rules since the early 1990s. In 1995, the FAA proposed some changes, but since then the issue has languished in political limbo - because the airlines and pilots can't agree on new rules, and the FAA is reluctant to impose them.
"We're not holding our breath because years ago they were saying that new rules were imminent, and it keeps getting pushed back," says Bill Edmunds, a fatigue specialist at the Allied Pilots Association. "But we're still trying to get some action on it."
LINK
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What an interesting and important issue for Professional Pilots.
However, nobody dares to discuss it.
This subject deserves attention and efforts from everybody to fix this problem.
Airlines do not care about duty time regulations or else, just about profits.
Just look around what it is going in several countries with companies forcing their employees to a lower salary to cope with their financial loses.
However, the duty time remains the same, but routes expansion keeps going on, to “improve productivity and keep cost down”.
So in turn, pilots have to work more for a lower salary.
I hope that we will see some serious and professional discussion on this subject.
Mercurius
However, nobody dares to discuss it.
This subject deserves attention and efforts from everybody to fix this problem.
Airlines do not care about duty time regulations or else, just about profits.
Just look around what it is going in several countries with companies forcing their employees to a lower salary to cope with their financial loses.
However, the duty time remains the same, but routes expansion keeps going on, to “improve productivity and keep cost down”.
So in turn, pilots have to work more for a lower salary.
I hope that we will see some serious and professional discussion on this subject.
Mercurius
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May I suggest a simple search of these forums withthe keyword 'fatigue' would produce reams of debate on the subject.
In fact, just CLICK HERE for the results of the search for posts on this topic in just the last year on this forum.
In fact, just CLICK HERE for the results of the search for posts on this topic in just the last year on this forum.
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“What an interesting and important issue…” and “…nobody dares to discuss it.” Well of course it has been discussed a lot. This thread started life not far from this thread which touches on the same subject from a different angle.
From many pprune threads to date, there seems to be no doubt that the problem exists. (and is getting worse?) Surely it’s now time for action not discussion? I mentioned in that thread: “You (plural) are not alone. It seems at the moment that crew are waiting for a disaster, to use as evidence to support their case.” Surely that cannot be what anybody wants?
I would happily assist or coordinate some action on this most important issue. I have some ideas about the type of action. Is anybody serious about getting something done, or will this be yet another interesting discussion?
From many pprune threads to date, there seems to be no doubt that the problem exists. (and is getting worse?) Surely it’s now time for action not discussion? I mentioned in that thread: “You (plural) are not alone. It seems at the moment that crew are waiting for a disaster, to use as evidence to support their case.” Surely that cannot be what anybody wants?
I would happily assist or coordinate some action on this most important issue. I have some ideas about the type of action. Is anybody serious about getting something done, or will this be yet another interesting discussion?
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The title of this thread is not totally accurate. It may be a problem for airlines, but they don't see it that way. They see it as a problem of whinging pilots who complain too much when the airlines are working them within the rules as laid down by the world's aviation authorities.
So they see it as they are operating legally and therefore there is not a problem. How many times have you been told when you complain to crewing that: 'it is within the flight crew limitations, it is legal and therefore you can not be tired!'. Clearly being 'legally tired' is somewhat different to the real world.
So they see it as they are operating legally and therefore there is not a problem. How many times have you been told when you complain to crewing that: 'it is within the flight crew limitations, it is legal and therefore you can not be tired!'. Clearly being 'legally tired' is somewhat different to the real world.
flap 5,
you wrote:
And that is EXACTLY what my employer's crew sceduler told me YESTERDAY.
Red eye flights virually did not exist 10 years ago when I started at my airline, so the possibility was never taken into account.
I am really looking forward to some sound, scientific and impartial report on crew fatigue.
happy landings,
fox niner
you wrote:
'it is within the flight crew limitations, it is legal and therefore you can not be tired!'.
And that is EXACTLY what my employer's crew sceduler told me YESTERDAY.
Red eye flights virually did not exist 10 years ago when I started at my airline, so the possibility was never taken into account.
I am really looking forward to some sound, scientific and impartial report on crew fatigue.
happy landings,
fox niner
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.. The right thing would be to address the regulators, in this case your transport minister and make them aware of the problem.
The only problem is that pilots by the public is regarded as a highly paid group working less than ordinary people .. but today this is no longer the case, compared to the "old" days of aviation..
The only problem is that pilots by the public is regarded as a highly paid group working less than ordinary people .. but today this is no longer the case, compared to the "old" days of aviation..
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I think the only person capable of judging their state of fatigue has to be you. Just because some requirements have been met or not met is surely irrelevant? This was discussed to some extent in the other linked thread.
I noticed in a recent accident report that in summarising the various crew (flight deck and CC) on board at the time of the incident, the rest time preceding the flight was recorded, eg: 12hrs rest, more than 2 days off etc. That must mean that it's considered important.
A recent thread (sorry can't immediately locate it) said "just report that you're fatigued and cannot fly". A huge contradiction exists here if you were to feel your job is on the line if you don't fly, but your life (and that of others) is on the line if you do.
I noticed in a recent accident report that in summarising the various crew (flight deck and CC) on board at the time of the incident, the rest time preceding the flight was recorded, eg: 12hrs rest, more than 2 days off etc. That must mean that it's considered important.
A recent thread (sorry can't immediately locate it) said "just report that you're fatigued and cannot fly". A huge contradiction exists here if you were to feel your job is on the line if you don't fly, but your life (and that of others) is on the line if you do.
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CHIRP
Every time I read Chirp it consists of tiredness related
incidents on the backside of the clock.. thats being going
on for years....
The regulatory authorites clearly dont read chirp....
incidents on the backside of the clock.. thats being going
on for years....
The regulatory authorites clearly dont read chirp....
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"We're not holding our breath because years ago they were saying that new rules were imminent, and it keeps getting pushed back," says Bill Edmunds, a fatigue specialist at the Allied Pilots Association. "But we're still trying to get some action on it."
The right thing would be to address the regulators, in this case your transport minister and make them aware of the problem.
It may be a problem for airlines, but they don't see it that way.
Agaricus bisporus – are you saying that there is no problem? Levity doesn’t really seem appropriate on this subject.
As I’ve already said - is anybody serious about getting something done? A very small group of concerned citizens got something done about the bunk-bed problem. So how do we sensibly approach doing something significant, before these “tiredness related incidents” become something tragic?
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Spork
I think that it is not a matter of Solidarity, it much more a matter of UNITY.
Just look on your post reply, so many divergent opinions.
The world it full of fools that think they must bow to the employer.
Moreover, whenever they bow, they think that are doing something magnificent, contributing for the company’s success.
People must stop thinking on this way, and be more professional.
It is black and white; they have the ideas, connections and money, and need people to make them work.
There is no glory, or a glorifying need for someone to sacrifice himself for the company, what it is required is professionalism, and to respect the human body’s limits, that is all.
Because, in the end the reality is only one.
When the last day at work comes up, and the door closes on your back, you going to be quickly forgotten and people will carry on their lives, and the only thing you will have is that is if you have enough cash or pension to survive, that’s all.
Do not think that if you go back to the employer and knock the door and tell him, look I sacrificed my self for your company he will give you anything.
That is why duty time limitations on this kind of job are extremely important, because if you are tired or stressed and a mistake it is made, the cost is extremely high, not in money, but in lives!
And for sure there is a lot more to talk about this subject.
Mercurius
I think that it is not a matter of Solidarity, it much more a matter of UNITY.
Just look on your post reply, so many divergent opinions.
The world it full of fools that think they must bow to the employer.
Moreover, whenever they bow, they think that are doing something magnificent, contributing for the company’s success.
People must stop thinking on this way, and be more professional.
It is black and white; they have the ideas, connections and money, and need people to make them work.
There is no glory, or a glorifying need for someone to sacrifice himself for the company, what it is required is professionalism, and to respect the human body’s limits, that is all.
Because, in the end the reality is only one.
When the last day at work comes up, and the door closes on your back, you going to be quickly forgotten and people will carry on their lives, and the only thing you will have is that is if you have enough cash or pension to survive, that’s all.
Do not think that if you go back to the employer and knock the door and tell him, look I sacrificed my self for your company he will give you anything.
That is why duty time limitations on this kind of job are extremely important, because if you are tired or stressed and a mistake it is made, the cost is extremely high, not in money, but in lives!
And for sure there is a lot more to talk about this subject.
Mercurius
Paxing All Over The World
Non-pilot here:
My guess is that pilots are not doing this. From observing the changes in staffing and 'productivity' and persuasion in commerce over the past 15 years, I expect that pilots are sacrificing themselves for themselves and their families.
In commerce (finance/oil/transport/etc) everyone is kow-towing to try and make it better for themselves. The companies know this. Remember that companies will always let things slide until people die AND it can be proved why they died. Then they run around squawking to the TV cameras "We will ensure that this never happens again." That is what they call 'management' these days. Anyone remember when being a manager meant ensuring that it did not go wrong in the first place?
The Unions can no longer help you - however much they might want to, they have to look after the general range of issues. This is a single issue and very well suited to being addressed in the modern style.
The key problem here is the need for anonimity. The reason that The Christian Science Monitor was chosen in the USA is because it is perceived to have authority, more than a commercial newspaper. You need to go further.
Get a grass-roots movement going by setting up a non-profit organisation (run by retired pilots) to get the message across. Get a petition and register your true identities with a Commissioner of Oaths or retired Judge/Chief Constable or some other irreproachable source. Try and get pilots from across the globe (they could register when in London or on-line using a secure website) , then:[list=1][*]State the hours worked from clocking on-clocking off.[*]Show the increase in operating hours in the past ten years.[*]Problems of sitting still and checking instruments.[*]Delays in the day and how they affect you.[*]Get ACCURATE lists of times when people have fallen asleep and it's not been reported due to fear. After all, why are there plans to put video cameras in the flight deck?[*]State that you would prefer to do this in-house and withoyour own names but that the livelihoods of yourselves and your families are at risk if you do so.[*]The more carriers and countries that are represented the greater will be your influence.[*]Cite the crashes where fatigue has already been identified.[*]How many have died thus far?[*]Get Cabin Crew involved - it's their lives too.[*]Get Ground Crew (all areas) as well as office staff of the carriers involved - it's their jobs if the carrier goes out of biz as a result of the crash and it will be their friends (and maybe relatives too) that are in the a/c that crash.[*]What have pilots done to date to highlight the problem?[*]Have your petition delivered to No10 Downing street, The White House and similar President/Prime Minister offices across the world ON THE SAME DAY and AT THE SAME ZULU TIME. This will make more of a splash in the media if folks are delivering petitions at midnight/Four in the Morning etc.[*]Set up a web site where all the information is collated. PPRuNe may be able to help in setting up and supporting an separate (and simple) URL.[*]Show that it is ALL carriers that have this problem, not just short haul LCCs but the new and the long established ones.[*]Prove that pilots have not used their low-cost benefit mileage to take their family on holiday on their own carrier but have gone by car/train/ferry.[/list=1]
Will this make any differance? None ...
Until the next fatigue related crash and then you will be able to get sensible hours.
This will cost you money but it is your lives as well as ours. The website can invite the public to donate in increments of Five Pounds/Dollas/Euros and that will also feed into the loop of how concerned people are.
If you want to see how things get changed in the world these days, look at those single issue groups that have succeeded. If you genuinely believe that lives are at risk, then find a way of complaining that is irreproachable. It's called taking the moral high ground and will cost time and money and a great deal of effort. But it sounds like it might be worth it? Good luck and I'll donate the first Five Pounds.
There is no glory, or a glorifying need for someone to sacrifice himself for the company
In commerce (finance/oil/transport/etc) everyone is kow-towing to try and make it better for themselves. The companies know this. Remember that companies will always let things slide until people die AND it can be proved why they died. Then they run around squawking to the TV cameras "We will ensure that this never happens again." That is what they call 'management' these days. Anyone remember when being a manager meant ensuring that it did not go wrong in the first place?
The Unions can no longer help you - however much they might want to, they have to look after the general range of issues. This is a single issue and very well suited to being addressed in the modern style.
The key problem here is the need for anonimity. The reason that The Christian Science Monitor was chosen in the USA is because it is perceived to have authority, more than a commercial newspaper. You need to go further.
Get a grass-roots movement going by setting up a non-profit organisation (run by retired pilots) to get the message across. Get a petition and register your true identities with a Commissioner of Oaths or retired Judge/Chief Constable or some other irreproachable source. Try and get pilots from across the globe (they could register when in London or on-line using a secure website) , then:[list=1][*]State the hours worked from clocking on-clocking off.[*]Show the increase in operating hours in the past ten years.[*]Problems of sitting still and checking instruments.[*]Delays in the day and how they affect you.[*]Get ACCURATE lists of times when people have fallen asleep and it's not been reported due to fear. After all, why are there plans to put video cameras in the flight deck?[*]State that you would prefer to do this in-house and withoyour own names but that the livelihoods of yourselves and your families are at risk if you do so.[*]The more carriers and countries that are represented the greater will be your influence.[*]Cite the crashes where fatigue has already been identified.[*]How many have died thus far?[*]Get Cabin Crew involved - it's their lives too.[*]Get Ground Crew (all areas) as well as office staff of the carriers involved - it's their jobs if the carrier goes out of biz as a result of the crash and it will be their friends (and maybe relatives too) that are in the a/c that crash.[*]What have pilots done to date to highlight the problem?[*]Have your petition delivered to No10 Downing street, The White House and similar President/Prime Minister offices across the world ON THE SAME DAY and AT THE SAME ZULU TIME. This will make more of a splash in the media if folks are delivering petitions at midnight/Four in the Morning etc.[*]Set up a web site where all the information is collated. PPRuNe may be able to help in setting up and supporting an separate (and simple) URL.[*]Show that it is ALL carriers that have this problem, not just short haul LCCs but the new and the long established ones.[*]Prove that pilots have not used their low-cost benefit mileage to take their family on holiday on their own carrier but have gone by car/train/ferry.[/list=1]
Will this make any differance? None ...
Until the next fatigue related crash and then you will be able to get sensible hours.
This will cost you money but it is your lives as well as ours. The website can invite the public to donate in increments of Five Pounds/Dollas/Euros and that will also feed into the loop of how concerned people are.
If you want to see how things get changed in the world these days, look at those single issue groups that have succeeded. If you genuinely believe that lives are at risk, then find a way of complaining that is irreproachable. It's called taking the moral high ground and will cost time and money and a great deal of effort. But it sounds like it might be worth it? Good luck and I'll donate the first Five Pounds.
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A few years ago Stelios conducted an 'Orange' parade outside the EU offices in Brussels. This was to highlight the apparent unfairness of some rules that resticted the trading of ej. Much high level publicity, and perhaps he won some concessions. Other, equally flamboyant, owners have tried and achieved the same. The consequence has often fallen on the flight crew, who's productivity then rose significantly for little personal gain.
Why do the flight crew community not employ the same tatics? There was a photo, on an earlier thread, about pilots protesting in Brussels. May we have a follow up to that campaign?
A splendid start, but is the momentum still alive?
There has been much blah blah here! I heard it for years in the hotel bars, but never in the management meetings. Is this more of the same, or is there some lead in the pencil?
Why do the flight crew community not employ the same tatics? There was a photo, on an earlier thread, about pilots protesting in Brussels. May we have a follow up to that campaign?
A splendid start, but is the momentum still alive?
There has been much blah blah here! I heard it for years in the hotel bars, but never in the management meetings. Is this more of the same, or is there some lead in the pencil?
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Fortunately, I personally have never had a problem obtaining adequate rest, especially in hotac, at any time of the day.
Clearly however, others do have problems, and it is high time something was actually done about it.
I certainly don't especially know what the answer is, but suspect it had better come sooner, rather than later.
Accidents are BAD news.
Clearly however, others do have problems, and it is high time something was actually done about it.
I certainly don't especially know what the answer is, but suspect it had better come sooner, rather than later.
Accidents are BAD news.
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Thanks PAXboy for an excellent and well-written post that obviously took you time. Thanks for being the first to suggest some actions that could take this matter forward. I must admit my thoughts on action were quicker and dirtier. Maybe we shouldn't be so civilised.
For example, how about hiring a coach to use for poster display, (or a "poster lorry") to get our message across to the travelling public. This could be used on key travel times. The M25 links the major London airports quite nicely. I suspect the majority of air travellers don't know about this issue. This could be done on several occasions.
How about exposing a past event/recent event directly to the media, that was a serious fatigue related incident?
We communicated the child safety issue to the public and trade over a period of about one year. We did some rather naughty things, but the media loved that. The reaction of the industry was like kicking a hornet's nest, but guess what – we succeeded where the pathetic Dti had failed!
For example, how about hiring a coach to use for poster display, (or a "poster lorry") to get our message across to the travelling public. This could be used on key travel times. The M25 links the major London airports quite nicely. I suspect the majority of air travellers don't know about this issue. This could be done on several occasions.
How about exposing a past event/recent event directly to the media, that was a serious fatigue related incident?
We communicated the child safety issue to the public and trade over a period of about one year. We did some rather naughty things, but the media loved that. The reaction of the industry was like kicking a hornet's nest, but guess what – we succeeded where the pathetic Dti had failed!
How about rest in the UK, Europe, Pac Rim and other areas where Pprune members fly?
Do your regulations allow a TOTAL of only eight (8) consecutive hours between engine shutdown and pushback the next morning? This allows, at least in the US (unless two extra hours are added by a typical union contract), for time to walk fast to the airport curbside, ride to the hotel, sleep, shower and return for a busy preflight. Never mind searching for food except for a Hershey's chocalate bar. Some freight, and many passenger airlines have used this minimum rest period, because it is legal.
How about for standby/reserve flightcrews over there? For example, during five solid days on duty, we only have a pre-designated consecutive 8-hours rest period (not just at night...)for each consecutive 24 hours, because of the MD-82 accident in Little Rock, where some passengers and the Captain died.
Our "friends" at the FAA never would have found motivation for changing the absurd regulations, had the accident aircraft been a freighter. Packages of car parts never make newspaper headlines, unless they fall on lots of people at a high rate of speed.
As for contract rest periods, our managements constantly deny "pattern bargaining", but on the contrary-that is exactly how they compare and compute their goal of operating costs. Monkey see, monkey do. They only fool the flying public, most of whom are total fools anyway, regarding airline Public Relations departments and media sensationalism. For the most part, the ticket price is the only altar where they "worship".
Do your regulations allow a TOTAL of only eight (8) consecutive hours between engine shutdown and pushback the next morning? This allows, at least in the US (unless two extra hours are added by a typical union contract), for time to walk fast to the airport curbside, ride to the hotel, sleep, shower and return for a busy preflight. Never mind searching for food except for a Hershey's chocalate bar. Some freight, and many passenger airlines have used this minimum rest period, because it is legal.
How about for standby/reserve flightcrews over there? For example, during five solid days on duty, we only have a pre-designated consecutive 8-hours rest period (not just at night...)for each consecutive 24 hours, because of the MD-82 accident in Little Rock, where some passengers and the Captain died.
Our "friends" at the FAA never would have found motivation for changing the absurd regulations, had the accident aircraft been a freighter. Packages of car parts never make newspaper headlines, unless they fall on lots of people at a high rate of speed.As for contract rest periods, our managements constantly deny "pattern bargaining", but on the contrary-that is exactly how they compare and compute their goal of operating costs. Monkey see, monkey do. They only fool the flying public, most of whom are total fools anyway, regarding airline Public Relations departments and media sensationalism. For the most part, the ticket price is the only altar where they "worship".
Last edited by Ignition Override; 30th Jul 2004 at 05:14.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Frimley, Surrey.
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Interesting post Ignition Override, until you get to the end where you take an unjustified pop at me and the others who effectively keep your employer in business. The pax can be a great ally to your cause with regard to this fatigue issue. How would you feel if I threw similar insults at you?
The post title is "Pilot fatigue grows as problem for airlines". I would suggest that at the moment it is a problem for airline pilots not airlines. Until enough of us phone in fatigued it will continue to be our problem and not theirs, only when it becomes a problem for airlines will something get done about it.