Pilot fatigue grows as problem for airlines
Paxing All Over The World
Another example: The problem experienced by a BA 777 departing LHR with an unsecured fuel cap makes headline news on the BBC tonigh. It does so for the simplest of reasons, it is a mechanical failure that can be identified and someone strung up on the rack.
Fatigue is not like that. It is silent and leaves no marks in the air, although it might leave them elsewhere. I wonder if cameras in the cockpit might just help carriers to see how tired people are?
Fatigue is not like that. It is silent and leaves no marks in the air, although it might leave them elsewhere. I wonder if cameras in the cockpit might just help carriers to see how tired people are?
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I'm afraid that not much will be done at all, as most pilots seem to be Aeronautical Prostitutes these days, especially our lot!!
Do more, work for less, my turn for Command, my turn to go on the Jet,etc, etc... Back stab, @rse lick.
Sychophantic heaven for those who want it... eh! Weasel??
When Screwing say "you will go into discretion", most Captains do.
When Screwing say "you will work 5 consecutive earlies", most do.
Even tried to make a Cabin crew No1 work 8 consecutive days just recently, thankfully, a Captain with more MF than most, got her to postion back on last sector as Pax but she still ended up doing it on day 8.
And don't even think about getting me started on our "New 30 minute" turnarounds!!!
There's going to be Carnage Matey...............
Do more, work for less, my turn for Command, my turn to go on the Jet,etc, etc... Back stab, @rse lick.
Sychophantic heaven for those who want it... eh! Weasel??
When Screwing say "you will go into discretion", most Captains do.
When Screwing say "you will work 5 consecutive earlies", most do.
Even tried to make a Cabin crew No1 work 8 consecutive days just recently, thankfully, a Captain with more MF than most, got her to postion back on last sector as Pax but she still ended up doing it on day 8.
And don't even think about getting me started on our "New 30 minute" turnarounds!!!
There's going to be Carnage Matey...............
>'it is within the flight crew limitations, it is legal <
opsjockey, not necessarily and that is the essence of what is being said on this thread.
You can operate a duty in the strict sense that it is within the FTL rules but if before doing so an individual crewmember feels too fatigued to operate safely he/she is LEGALLY obliged not to do so.
However, many companies frown on an individual crewmember declining a duty because of fatigue and many take the easy option (no pun intended) by simply going sick.
The FTL scheme can never cover every situation because pilots are human beings and not machines and it always amuses me that there is an assumption that you can automatically "switch off" during a minimum rest period and sleep. In most other walks of life there is time for some recreation as well as sleep in order that one can return for work in a refreshed state.
My view is that it is just a matter of time before we see a fatigue induced accident. Accidents are always caused by a combination of factors and that is part of the challenge in the context of fatigue. If, in the case of the B777 with the fuel leak, the a/c had speared in because the crew had fouled things up as a result of fatigue that might have made a more impressive headline. (This comment is not to imply that the crew where fatigued but just to paint the picture of what might have happened if they were!)
opsjockey, not necessarily and that is the essence of what is being said on this thread.
You can operate a duty in the strict sense that it is within the FTL rules but if before doing so an individual crewmember feels too fatigued to operate safely he/she is LEGALLY obliged not to do so.
However, many companies frown on an individual crewmember declining a duty because of fatigue and many take the easy option (no pun intended) by simply going sick.
The FTL scheme can never cover every situation because pilots are human beings and not machines and it always amuses me that there is an assumption that you can automatically "switch off" during a minimum rest period and sleep. In most other walks of life there is time for some recreation as well as sleep in order that one can return for work in a refreshed state.
My view is that it is just a matter of time before we see a fatigue induced accident. Accidents are always caused by a combination of factors and that is part of the challenge in the context of fatigue. If, in the case of the B777 with the fuel leak, the a/c had speared in because the crew had fouled things up as a result of fatigue that might have made a more impressive headline. (This comment is not to imply that the crew where fatigued but just to paint the picture of what might have happened if they were!)
Hello Spork. No insult was intended. My over-generalizations and insensitive remarks failed to address the fact that many passengers are polite, well-read or knowledgeable, or all of the above, possibly also aware of the huge gap between quotes in the media and the various real situations. But based on some recent observations made by US airline Marketing departments, maybe it is the other very large sector/group which "worships" only the cheapest price possible, and little else. We also need their business, but maybe three or four of their ticket fares equal one average 'business fare'. As Pprune was created by pilots, and the forums inspire the "insiders" to contribute, please allow me to qualify my crude remarks in a realistic context.
Nothing personal was intended against the courteous travelers out there who are at least vaguely aware of how much work and dedication, despite many fatigueing days, go into our profession. Here are some of the pitfalls: high adrenaline during the last approach onto a slippery runway in gusting winds at eleven pm, followed by minimum rest at a fairly noisy hotel-never mind difficult training and challenging sim. checkrides etc. I can't speak for other pilots, but here are just some of my impressions about much of the flying public: based on their behavior at these same noisy hotels and indifferent attitudes towards our best efforts to get them quickly and safely to their destination around thunderstorms, even without any distracting systems abnormalities (after 12 consecutive hours of duty, now on the fifth flight of the day, but with no "flightdeck" automation...), never mind their unwillingness to comprehend why a flight can be delayed the next morning because the crew arrived much later (the previous night) than planned and takes its minimum rest as defined in the contract, which is not all that much, maybe eight hours at the hotel.
Our working environment can breed a little resentment from time to time. But maybe most others do. We try to avoid thinking about bankruptcy judges or one's employer being able to dissolve most of one's retirement at a whim after working 20-25 years, a topic now seen quite often in the US newspapers' business sections.
Nothing personal was intended against the courteous travelers out there who are at least vaguely aware of how much work and dedication, despite many fatigueing days, go into our profession. Here are some of the pitfalls: high adrenaline during the last approach onto a slippery runway in gusting winds at eleven pm, followed by minimum rest at a fairly noisy hotel-never mind difficult training and challenging sim. checkrides etc. I can't speak for other pilots, but here are just some of my impressions about much of the flying public: based on their behavior at these same noisy hotels and indifferent attitudes towards our best efforts to get them quickly and safely to their destination around thunderstorms, even without any distracting systems abnormalities (after 12 consecutive hours of duty, now on the fifth flight of the day, but with no "flightdeck" automation...), never mind their unwillingness to comprehend why a flight can be delayed the next morning because the crew arrived much later (the previous night) than planned and takes its minimum rest as defined in the contract, which is not all that much, maybe eight hours at the hotel.
Our working environment can breed a little resentment from time to time. But maybe most others do. We try to avoid thinking about bankruptcy judges or one's employer being able to dissolve most of one's retirement at a whim after working 20-25 years, a topic now seen quite often in the US newspapers' business sections.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 31st Jul 2004 at 06:24.
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I agree absolutely with Ignition Overrides comment that most customers consider price first and foremost. Safety and security are a given.
I think the problem with the regulation of flying hours is that in the company I work it seems that up to five years ago there was enough staff and enough money to give people an easy life and to require a lot less from each employee. The regulatory authorities seemed to have a set of rules that had never been tested as nobody's roster came close.
In these days of bottom lines, cost cutting and business survival many of these limits are being taken as operational limits and not absolute limits.
I imagine it like a car engine, the red line on the rev counter is a limit. You only run the engine up to that limit very occasionally or it IS going to break.
I think the problem with the regulation of flying hours is that in the company I work it seems that up to five years ago there was enough staff and enough money to give people an easy life and to require a lot less from each employee. The regulatory authorities seemed to have a set of rules that had never been tested as nobody's roster came close.
In these days of bottom lines, cost cutting and business survival many of these limits are being taken as operational limits and not absolute limits.
I imagine it like a car engine, the red line on the rev counter is a limit. You only run the engine up to that limit very occasionally or it IS going to break.
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Hi Folks,
Let’s go back to the basis.
Duty time limitation it is imposed “ and negotiated” by Airlines.
As example look what happened to the JAA proposed duty time limitations, based on a scientifically research.
It was removed!
Why, because it was inconvenient for the airlines, they should hire more crew:
Therefore, airlines lobbied with ministers and PMs to have it removed.
Now, using a real example:
The next day this happened QR who had “legally adopted JAA rules” began with a new duty time “interpretation” .
Crew arriving from a long haul flight early in the morning, were rostered to proceed in another long haul departing exactly ten to eleven hours after chocks time.
In other words, if they have already spent a sleepless night, they had to spend another sleepless night in the cockpit.
To make it more clear:
Some people arriving from Europe early in the morning and after a long sleepless night , were rostered to fly on the same night to South East Asia!
Moreover, rostered to fly the next day early morning local time to another much East destination, without time to adapt his Cicardian cycle, or even rest properly.
In addition, some crew used to fly the other way around.
And not enough, their “days off” in the hotel room, not at home base.
I think this is a good example.
It is obvious that who pays bills and salaries are passengers.
If they keep flying, airlines keep cashing more and more.
Now, let us make few questions:
a- Do passengers have any knowledge about the nature and stresses imposed in our profession?
b- Are passengers aware about the danger whenever flying with tired and stressed crew?
It is obvious that the answer is NO; eventually only very few people within millions who fly daily are aware, or have a minor awareness about the aspects of this profession, and their repercussion on air safety.
It is normal people taking things for granted.
The airline media it is so massive and well tailored, that whenever passengers board the aircraft they do believe everything is fine with the equipment, crew are well trained, happy, making a good salary, etc.
The reality is that, they do not have a real idea of what it is going in this industry.
To finalize, it is my view that Airline Pilot Associations, Unions, should start enlightening programs to allow the public to have access to several safety concerns we all are expressing on this thread.
As Airlines produce documentaries about their history, or the “fantastic maintenance” installations, catering and how much they “care” for their passengers, the same Pilots organizations could do, the same showing how is the real life of an aviator, and cabin crew.
Mercurius
Let’s go back to the basis.
Duty time limitation it is imposed “ and negotiated” by Airlines.
As example look what happened to the JAA proposed duty time limitations, based on a scientifically research.
It was removed!
Why, because it was inconvenient for the airlines, they should hire more crew:
Therefore, airlines lobbied with ministers and PMs to have it removed.
Now, using a real example:
The next day this happened QR who had “legally adopted JAA rules” began with a new duty time “interpretation” .
Crew arriving from a long haul flight early in the morning, were rostered to proceed in another long haul departing exactly ten to eleven hours after chocks time.
In other words, if they have already spent a sleepless night, they had to spend another sleepless night in the cockpit.
To make it more clear:
Some people arriving from Europe early in the morning and after a long sleepless night , were rostered to fly on the same night to South East Asia!
Moreover, rostered to fly the next day early morning local time to another much East destination, without time to adapt his Cicardian cycle, or even rest properly.
In addition, some crew used to fly the other way around.
And not enough, their “days off” in the hotel room, not at home base.
I think this is a good example.
It is obvious that who pays bills and salaries are passengers.
If they keep flying, airlines keep cashing more and more.
Now, let us make few questions:
a- Do passengers have any knowledge about the nature and stresses imposed in our profession?
b- Are passengers aware about the danger whenever flying with tired and stressed crew?
It is obvious that the answer is NO; eventually only very few people within millions who fly daily are aware, or have a minor awareness about the aspects of this profession, and their repercussion on air safety.
It is normal people taking things for granted.
The airline media it is so massive and well tailored, that whenever passengers board the aircraft they do believe everything is fine with the equipment, crew are well trained, happy, making a good salary, etc.
The reality is that, they do not have a real idea of what it is going in this industry.
To finalize, it is my view that Airline Pilot Associations, Unions, should start enlightening programs to allow the public to have access to several safety concerns we all are expressing on this thread.
As Airlines produce documentaries about their history, or the “fantastic maintenance” installations, catering and how much they “care” for their passengers, the same Pilots organizations could do, the same showing how is the real life of an aviator, and cabin crew.
Mercurius
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Thank you for your clarification Ignition Override. It certainly looks then, like this is a global problem.
In the UK we’ve had a problem for decades which was junior doctors working excessive hours. Finally, today, the regs come in that give them (and us patients) some protection. Some interesting comments in the news, mainly along the lines of “now you’re gonna have to wait longer…” but also, an administrator comments: “standards of care will be increased…”. Funny how for many many years this overwork and fatigue was apparently quite acceptable to those same authorities as regards standards of care.
The best comment from a BBC news item was “"You wouldn't want to be in a plane flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for a similar period?".
We need to get on with this enlightening process don’t we?
In the UK we’ve had a problem for decades which was junior doctors working excessive hours. Finally, today, the regs come in that give them (and us patients) some protection. Some interesting comments in the news, mainly along the lines of “now you’re gonna have to wait longer…” but also, an administrator comments: “standards of care will be increased…”. Funny how for many many years this overwork and fatigue was apparently quite acceptable to those same authorities as regards standards of care.
The best comment from a BBC news item was “"You wouldn't want to be in a plane flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for a similar period?".
To finalize, it is my view that Airline Pilot Associations, Unions, should start enlightening programs to allow the public to have access to several safety concerns we all are expressing on this thread.
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Just an example for those of you reading who may not be aware of the subtleties that are used by airline commercial departments you may want to consider the following:
I have just been rostered the following duties:
Day 1: Report at 1950 local for a 2 sector night duty scheduled to end on blocks at 0555 local the next morning. Actual off duty was 0645 local. Total allowed flight duty (from report to on-blocks last sector) was 11:15. Actual flight duty was 10:30 + 0:30 = 11:00 total duty. No problem there. Next duty scheduled for 2040 local report same day gives 13:50 rest.
Day 2: Report at 2040 local for a 3 sector night scheduled to end on blocks at 0705 local the next morning. Actual off duty was 0820 local. Total allowed flight duty was 10:30. Actual flight duty was 11:10 + 0:30 = 11:40 total duty. 0:40 discretion allowed. No problem there. Next duty scheduled for 0505 local report next morning gives 20:45 rest.
Day 3: Report at 0500 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1400 local the same day.
Day 4: Report at 0530 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1455 local the same day.
Day 5: Report 0510 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1515 local the same day.
This type of schedule, whilst not appearing unduly busy and perfectly legal allows a crew member to report for 2 night duties followed by three early duties. How is the crew member supposed to get home after the duty on day 2, sleep for 7 or 8 hours, get up in the afternoon and then get adequate sleep before an early report the next morning? It makes a mockery of the system where at least 12 hours rest are the legal minimum but no allowance is made for sensible time to readjust from nights into earlies. This causes fatigue, the CAA know it does and yet they do nothing about it.
The other problem is that companies add sectors to duties for various reasons but suddenly the original turn around times are and sector times are somehow reduced so that the new limiting flight duty time is just within 5 minutes of discretion. In reality, the turn arounds are impossible and the the duty ends up going into discretion. The company claims it never rostered the duty into discretion, which is true but they knew full well that the revised times were unrealistic and were confident enough that the crew would go into discretion for up to an hour just so that they could get home.
How little the public now about the fact that the European Working Time Directive does not apply to aircrew. This is the amount of duty hours pilots can do in the UK:
The maximum duty hours for flight crew will not exceed: 55 hours in 1 week, but this figure can be increased to 60 hours when a rostered duty covering a series of duty periods has commenced and is subject to unforeseen delays or 95 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks or 190 hours in any 4 consecutive weeks.
The government and the public are worried about junior doctors working more than 48 hours in a week. If a fatigued doctor makes a mistake, maybe one persons life is at risk. If we make a serious mistake the number of lives at risk is exponentially higher. So, the comment by a doctor "You wouldn't want to be in a plane flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for a similar period?" should be turned around and used by our unions who are at the forefront of the battle against duty time limitations that are little more than limited protection for us and very much designed to smooth the way for the airline businesses.
At least we can be thankful here in the UK that we don't have the Italians or the Americans setting our duty time limitations. Mind you, it may only be a matter of time!
I have just been rostered the following duties:
Day 1: Report at 1950 local for a 2 sector night duty scheduled to end on blocks at 0555 local the next morning. Actual off duty was 0645 local. Total allowed flight duty (from report to on-blocks last sector) was 11:15. Actual flight duty was 10:30 + 0:30 = 11:00 total duty. No problem there. Next duty scheduled for 2040 local report same day gives 13:50 rest.
Day 2: Report at 2040 local for a 3 sector night scheduled to end on blocks at 0705 local the next morning. Actual off duty was 0820 local. Total allowed flight duty was 10:30. Actual flight duty was 11:10 + 0:30 = 11:40 total duty. 0:40 discretion allowed. No problem there. Next duty scheduled for 0505 local report next morning gives 20:45 rest.
Day 3: Report at 0500 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1400 local the same day.
Day 4: Report at 0530 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1455 local the same day.
Day 5: Report 0510 local for a 2 sector day flight scheduled to end on blocks at 1515 local the same day.
This type of schedule, whilst not appearing unduly busy and perfectly legal allows a crew member to report for 2 night duties followed by three early duties. How is the crew member supposed to get home after the duty on day 2, sleep for 7 or 8 hours, get up in the afternoon and then get adequate sleep before an early report the next morning? It makes a mockery of the system where at least 12 hours rest are the legal minimum but no allowance is made for sensible time to readjust from nights into earlies. This causes fatigue, the CAA know it does and yet they do nothing about it.
The other problem is that companies add sectors to duties for various reasons but suddenly the original turn around times are and sector times are somehow reduced so that the new limiting flight duty time is just within 5 minutes of discretion. In reality, the turn arounds are impossible and the the duty ends up going into discretion. The company claims it never rostered the duty into discretion, which is true but they knew full well that the revised times were unrealistic and were confident enough that the crew would go into discretion for up to an hour just so that they could get home.
How little the public now about the fact that the European Working Time Directive does not apply to aircrew. This is the amount of duty hours pilots can do in the UK:
The maximum duty hours for flight crew will not exceed: 55 hours in 1 week, but this figure can be increased to 60 hours when a rostered duty covering a series of duty periods has commenced and is subject to unforeseen delays or 95 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks or 190 hours in any 4 consecutive weeks.
The government and the public are worried about junior doctors working more than 48 hours in a week. If a fatigued doctor makes a mistake, maybe one persons life is at risk. If we make a serious mistake the number of lives at risk is exponentially higher. So, the comment by a doctor "You wouldn't want to be in a plane flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for a similar period?" should be turned around and used by our unions who are at the forefront of the battle against duty time limitations that are little more than limited protection for us and very much designed to smooth the way for the airline businesses.
At least we can be thankful here in the UK that we don't have the Italians or the Americans setting our duty time limitations. Mind you, it may only be a matter of time!
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Excellent points there CCC. I've had to work similar shift patterns and then had days off where my body just cannot get realigned to "normal" time. What happens next? Of course it all happens over and over again, with minor variations in the detail. The key difference being I'm not responsible for hundreds of lives.
The news report mentions quite early on: "Trainee doctors should no longer be working more than 58 hours a week under European regulations." The authorities apparently consider a 50% loading versus the normal working week quite acceptable. We should all bear in mind this is an "improvement" for them...
The news report mentions quite early on: "Trainee doctors should no longer be working more than 58 hours a week under European regulations." The authorities apparently consider a 50% loading versus the normal working week quite acceptable. We should all bear in mind this is an "improvement" for them...
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Hear, hear.
To add to that, where is the life-work balance? After a run of duties like that you spend your two days off recovering and getting back onto a normal time scale, whilst totally knackered. Often the last thing you want to do is go out for the day or for a night out with friends. Or if you do you are too knackered for the next set of duties. When it is continuously like that, especially when working 6 or 7-on, 2-off it gradually gets more tiring as time goes on.
To add to that, where is the life-work balance? After a run of duties like that you spend your two days off recovering and getting back onto a normal time scale, whilst totally knackered. Often the last thing you want to do is go out for the day or for a night out with friends. Or if you do you are too knackered for the next set of duties. When it is continuously like that, especially when working 6 or 7-on, 2-off it gradually gets more tiring as time goes on.
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Ladies an gentleman,
I hope that you are not limiting this discussion only to UK pilots.
We cannot forget that, there are hundreds or more European pilots holders of a “might full” JAR licence working abroad, and operating flights to European destinations.
Please use as reference the example given on my post reply on this subject.
Several countries are adopting JAR rules, simply because they are the most convenient of all as far duty time limitations concern.
It is becoming a norm in several airlines to change the length time of a sector and arriving time on the individual crew rosters, knowing in advance that they will not be able to complete the flight within duty time “limits”.
Leaving the decision to captain’s discretion. We all know what will be the result if someone dares to delay or even interrupt a flight for this reason.
Quote:
We need to get on with this enlightening process don’t we?
Dear Spork, the answer is YES obviously , it is one of the ways for us to make things to move on.
However, if we want to have this issue moving, we have to start proposing this to our Associations, but for this to take effect needs to be supported by a majority of pilots.
In addition, be aware, do not get surprised if you discover within your association some people fiercely opposing to the idea in dealing with this issue.
Another quote:
At least we can be thankful here in the UK that we don't have the Italians or the Americans setting our duty time limitations. Mind you, it may only be a matter of time!
Have no doubts CCC !
Safe flying to all.
Mercurius
I hope that you are not limiting this discussion only to UK pilots.
We cannot forget that, there are hundreds or more European pilots holders of a “might full” JAR licence working abroad, and operating flights to European destinations.
Please use as reference the example given on my post reply on this subject.
Several countries are adopting JAR rules, simply because they are the most convenient of all as far duty time limitations concern.
It is becoming a norm in several airlines to change the length time of a sector and arriving time on the individual crew rosters, knowing in advance that they will not be able to complete the flight within duty time “limits”.
Leaving the decision to captain’s discretion. We all know what will be the result if someone dares to delay or even interrupt a flight for this reason.
Quote:
We need to get on with this enlightening process don’t we?
Dear Spork, the answer is YES obviously , it is one of the ways for us to make things to move on.
However, if we want to have this issue moving, we have to start proposing this to our Associations, but for this to take effect needs to be supported by a majority of pilots.
In addition, be aware, do not get surprised if you discover within your association some people fiercely opposing to the idea in dealing with this issue.
Another quote:
At least we can be thankful here in the UK that we don't have the Italians or the Americans setting our duty time limitations. Mind you, it may only be a matter of time!
Have no doubts CCC !
Safe flying to all.
Mercurius
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I think that is why you should consider "quick and dirty" action instead of discussions with others, who then need to go and have discussions with others, etc.
Does anybody feel direct action is appropriate? That's what we used in the child safety issue and it achieved results within 12 months. I thought that was slow...
Maybe it's not that important to you?
Does anybody feel direct action is appropriate? That's what we used in the child safety issue and it achieved results within 12 months. I thought that was slow...
Maybe it's not that important to you?
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Perhaps we should adopt the following slogan:
You wouldn't want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for a similar period?
You wouldn't want to be looked after by a doctor who hadn't slept for two days. Why would you want to be flown by a pilot who hadn't slept for a similar period?
spork - I quite agree, it's time to stop pussy-footing and waiting for all the machinations of various committees and government departments, etc and take action to bring this matter clearly to the attention of the travelling public before it's too late.
Chattanooga Choo Choo - nice one - see that slogan splashed on the pages of a few daily nationals might change the political aspect, eh?
Chattanooga Choo Choo - nice one - see that slogan splashed on the pages of a few daily nationals might change the political aspect, eh?
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The answer, MT, is nothing.
This has been an issue since Pontious was a Pilot, and nothing has been done since then, and I doubt if anything will ever be done, not while the likes of MOL are out there.
Sorry to be such a pessimist.
This has been an issue since Pontious was a Pilot, and nothing has been done since then, and I doubt if anything will ever be done, not while the likes of MOL are out there.
Sorry to be such a pessimist.
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CCC
I could be reading your example wrongly at this time of day
(my first night so i'm knackered) but if your saying you operated 2 nights followed by 3 earlies with 0500 Local Time reports its not legal within CAP371. You can only op 3 then you need a break to stop the consecutive rule. As you only had 24 hrs its not legal...
Which Airline do you work for if not too personal??
I could be reading your example wrongly at this time of day
(my first night so i'm knackered) but if your saying you operated 2 nights followed by 3 earlies with 0500 Local Time reports its not legal within CAP371. You can only op 3 then you need a break to stop the consecutive rule. As you only had 24 hrs its not legal...
Which Airline do you work for if not too personal??