Ex-Virgin Pilot Pleads Guilty to reduced charge
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Just out of interest - If TSA noticed dodgy breath or behaviour, I'm curious why the crew didn't? Personally speaking, I'm as loyal as Lassie, but I also want to get back alive to my family...
This may not apply at all to the former Virgin pilot, but in the past, even FAA staff have been aware of suspicion of pilots being intoxicated, and the FAA staff allowed the pilots to operate the flight after voicing a concern! Apparently the Captain said nothing about this to the other flightcrew members and boarded the plane, sending them all on a journey into a living nightmare. Later, they realized that if they had been told, they could have called in sick and disappeared back to the hotel...
In this case, after the pilots finished the flight, they submitted to a breathalyzer, not knowing that they could have refused-having no legal counsel available. Before they went to court, the prosecutor's staff EXTRAPOLATED roughly what the results could have been at the beginning of their duty period. This breathalyzer guesswork was admitted in court, and all three served a full year in some bad prisons, with the really bad guys. This was partly due to a recent railroad accident in which the engineer had apparently been smoking the wrong type of cigarettes-unless one lives in Amsterdam and squats in a derelict gebouw. Not to excuse how much they consumed the previous night, but in past years (decades) some US airlines had no treatment programs for their employees who came forward to deal with a problem. The airline staff chose to either hide the problem or throw away the only career and retirement.
In this case, after the pilots finished the flight, they submitted to a breathalyzer, not knowing that they could have refused-having no legal counsel available. Before they went to court, the prosecutor's staff EXTRAPOLATED roughly what the results could have been at the beginning of their duty period. This breathalyzer guesswork was admitted in court, and all three served a full year in some bad prisons, with the really bad guys. This was partly due to a recent railroad accident in which the engineer had apparently been smoking the wrong type of cigarettes-unless one lives in Amsterdam and squats in a derelict gebouw. Not to excuse how much they consumed the previous night, but in past years (decades) some US airlines had no treatment programs for their employees who came forward to deal with a problem. The airline staff chose to either hide the problem or throw away the only career and retirement.
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If he was as bad as reports indicate what the 
was his F/O doing, why was he not told by his colleague not to fly, and why did they agree to fly with him in that state?
Lets hope we all learn from this
was his F/O doing, why was he not told by his colleague not to fly, and why did they agree to fly with him in that state?Lets hope we all learn from this
Whilst not professing to be an expert on the subject I believe the rate at which the human body gets rid of alcohol after a certain numbers of units consumed is now well documented.
I am currently employed in the railway industry in the UK. When I joined we were given full and comprehensive briefing and information concerning alcohol (and drugs) and how long it takes for the human body to get back to the prescribed limits. In short, my current employers go to great lengths to ensure their staff have all the facts wrt alcohol.
Things may have changed but I am not aware that such information is readily available to airline crew although doubtless there may be some exceptions.
Furthermore I can expect random screening at any time and such screening is automatic for all personnel involved after incident or accident. The limit is also one quarter of the UK driving limit - ie 20 mg.per ...
I am currently employed in the railway industry in the UK. When I joined we were given full and comprehensive briefing and information concerning alcohol (and drugs) and how long it takes for the human body to get back to the prescribed limits. In short, my current employers go to great lengths to ensure their staff have all the facts wrt alcohol.
Things may have changed but I am not aware that such information is readily available to airline crew although doubtless there may be some exceptions.
Furthermore I can expect random screening at any time and such screening is automatic for all personnel involved after incident or accident. The limit is also one quarter of the UK driving limit - ie 20 mg.per ...
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>>I understood he was arrested sitting in the cabin checking the paperwork and therefore had not technically taken charge of the aircraft<<
The feds usually won't buy this defense but it looks like it may have done the trick for the state charges due to the wording of the law. As I observed on the earlier thread:
"In the U.S., pilots can be tested after they report for duty. They do not have to start the engines (a little late to get the tester onboard) or even enter the aircraft. Of course, defense attorneys will try every trick in the book to claim that the test was improper (not that there's anything wrong with that <g> ). In one case it was claimed that there was no intent of flight since the trip was canceled due to lack of crew after the captain was arrested."
>>Whatever happened to that America West crew that actually started taxying out and were called back to the gate? Both were loaded - did they do any time/pay fine?<<
Like the Virgin pilot, they are facing parallel federal and state charges. They did the classic trip to rehab while initially entering an innocent plea on the state charges. Later they claimed they weren't in control of the plane since they were being pushed back etc., etc., etc...
Here's some of the latest in their saga from another thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=8
The feds usually won't buy this defense but it looks like it may have done the trick for the state charges due to the wording of the law. As I observed on the earlier thread:
"In the U.S., pilots can be tested after they report for duty. They do not have to start the engines (a little late to get the tester onboard) or even enter the aircraft. Of course, defense attorneys will try every trick in the book to claim that the test was improper (not that there's anything wrong with that <g> ). In one case it was claimed that there was no intent of flight since the trip was canceled due to lack of crew after the captain was arrested."
>>Whatever happened to that America West crew that actually started taxying out and were called back to the gate? Both were loaded - did they do any time/pay fine?<<
Like the Virgin pilot, they are facing parallel federal and state charges. They did the classic trip to rehab while initially entering an innocent plea on the state charges. Later they claimed they weren't in control of the plane since they were being pushed back etc., etc., etc...
Here's some of the latest in their saga from another thread:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...5&pagenumber=8
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Virginia law with respect to motor vehicles has an interesting little characteristic called implied consent to breath or blood testing. By getting in the automobile you have consented to be at least breath tested for intoxicants, blood tested if authorities desire. If you don't consent it is accepted in court as proof that you were intoxicated.
Not sure whether this goes to the flying under the influence law, which I suspect any good lawyer could get thrown out on the federal preemption. Then the pilot would have to deal with the federal system...oh dear, not in the eastern district of Virginia. Plead your plea do 1 year suspended sentence, time served (3 days), 1 year unsupervised probation on another continent . This is somewhat lighter than but similar to initial driving under the influence convictions I have seen in a neighboring county in Virginia so all things considered I believe the fellow got off light and pleading to a charge didn't hurt.
Not sure whether this goes to the flying under the influence law, which I suspect any good lawyer could get thrown out on the federal preemption. Then the pilot would have to deal with the federal system...oh dear, not in the eastern district of Virginia. Plead your plea do 1 year suspended sentence, time served (3 days), 1 year unsupervised probation on another continent . This is somewhat lighter than but similar to initial driving under the influence convictions I have seen in a neighboring county in Virginia so all things considered I believe the fellow got off light and pleading to a charge didn't hurt.
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Put him in a car. He dose'nt have to be driving to be arrested, just have the keys on him.
If he was in a car and arrested nobody would bat an eyelid, save for perhaps the odd grunt of "serves the old fool right", and it does, he should've known better with his age and experience... I cant understand why he risked it after all the training medicals... etc.
Obviously got away with it before and thought he could again. Perhaps his FO noticed on a previous and gave someone the 'nod' - and "they" were watching 'n waiting..... like bandits in th night ..!!!
If he was in a car and arrested nobody would bat an eyelid, save for perhaps the odd grunt of "serves the old fool right", and it does, he should've known better with his age and experience... I cant understand why he risked it after all the training medicals... etc.
Obviously got away with it before and thought he could again. Perhaps his FO noticed on a previous and gave someone the 'nod' - and "they" were watching 'n waiting..... like bandits in th night ..!!!
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Let's just put this to bed, let the man himself get on with what's left of his life and hope that all in the airline world have learned from this. Lets face it, regardless of if you are flightdeck, cabin crew, engineer, etc, etc, there but for the grace of god could have been many people in the industry.
On a personal note, I have to agree with the second & third paragraph of Ya Zi's comments on page 3.
On a personal note, I have to agree with the second & third paragraph of Ya Zi's comments on page 3.
Last edited by Denzil; 21st Jul 2004 at 23:24.
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There seem to be lots of 'experts' on this one and I expect there will be lots more. For those of you not in the industry do not pass judgement as you know nothing about it apart from looking at glossy magazines with nice aircraft pictures or you might even be able to land a 747 on your PC, forget it, it's not the same.
The guy has been given his passport back, served his time (a few months in the 'free US' is sentence enough for most of us) and will hopefully be back with his family soon.
Whatever the circumstances of his arrest you were not there! He is now free to come home therfore the matter should now be closed!
The guy has been given his passport back, served his time (a few months in the 'free US' is sentence enough for most of us) and will hopefully be back with his family soon.
Whatever the circumstances of his arrest you were not there! He is now free to come home therfore the matter should now be closed!
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>>He is now free to come home therfore the matter should now be closed!<<
Well, if the UK is willing to ignore the U.S. federal charges and look the other way, maybe he is home free. Normally, like the America West MIA crew mentioned above, he would have to face the music in federal court as well.
Well, if the UK is willing to ignore the U.S. federal charges and look the other way, maybe he is home free. Normally, like the America West MIA crew mentioned above, he would have to face the music in federal court as well.
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So, he plea bargained and got reduced scentence. From what I can understand of the US plea bargain process, the plea bargain itself undermines the judicial system by the defendant admitting a lesser charge to reduce his scentence toa level acceptable to both parties. As a result, the plea bargain is a happy compromise with the prosecuters getting a result - and the prosecuted getting away with a compromise which is far better then going the whole way and running the risk of losing. Therefore, although justice can be seen to have been served, the whole thing is a fudge with both sides getting in part, an acceptable result.
I mention this case in these terms as I have worked with Richard and know that the charge is both out of character and unlikely due to his lifestyle as a result of his medical history. I fully suspect that the sentence fulfilled the requirement of both parties within the parameters of above.
So please don't judge the person without knowing the facts. And I don't consider the finding of the US courts to be an accurate representation of the facts!
I mention this case in these terms as I have worked with Richard and know that the charge is both out of character and unlikely due to his lifestyle as a result of his medical history. I fully suspect that the sentence fulfilled the requirement of both parties within the parameters of above.
So please don't judge the person without knowing the facts. And I don't consider the finding of the US courts to be an accurate representation of the facts!
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Here's another article from a local paper that discusses the weakness in the state case. Apparently the state feared that they couldn't prove that the former 747 captain was attempting to operate the plane. Also, under state law, impairment in commanding a 747 at a BAL of .07% was in question.
___________________________________
Pilot Accepts Plea Deal, Avoids DUI Charge
Dan Telvock
Jul 22, 2004 -- A former Virgin Atlantic pilot charged last year with trying to operate an aircraft under the influence of alcohol has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor in the case.
Loudoun Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Steven Sincavage said that [redacted], 55, of London, pleaded guilty July 13 in Loudoun Circuit Court to interfering with the operation of an aircraft. He was originally charged with trying to fly a plane under the influence of alcohol.
Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. Horne sentenced [redacted] to six months in jail, suspending all but three days of which [redacted] served after his arrest at Dulles International Airport Dec. 19, 2003.
Sincavage said what prevented him from taking the case to trial was a lack of proof that [redacted] was attempting to operate the plane.
“It became clear that there was going to be substantial evidentiary issues about him operating [the plane] and it was going to be pretty hard to prove this thing beyond a reasonable doubt,” he said.
Sincavage said there was alcohol in [redacted]’s system that night—the blood toxicology report stated [redacted] had a level of 0.07—but it would have become a controversial issue at trial whether [redacted] was actually impaired to pilot the plane.
A Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority representative said that an airport employee smelled alcohol on [redacted] and noticed his speech was slurred shortly before the plane was to fly to London. A police sergeant who arrested [redacted] also noted that he smelled alcohol on [redacted] and that he stumbled in the cockpit.
Although he was placed on administrative leave with pay, [redacted] resigned from Virgin Atlantic in March. The FAA conducted an investigation of the case but a representative would not release the details of the investigation.
http://www.leesburg2day.com/current....19&newsid=9243
___________________________________
Pilot Accepts Plea Deal, Avoids DUI Charge
Dan Telvock
Jul 22, 2004 -- A former Virgin Atlantic pilot charged last year with trying to operate an aircraft under the influence of alcohol has pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor in the case.
Loudoun Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Steven Sincavage said that [redacted], 55, of London, pleaded guilty July 13 in Loudoun Circuit Court to interfering with the operation of an aircraft. He was originally charged with trying to fly a plane under the influence of alcohol.
Circuit Court Judge Thomas D. Horne sentenced [redacted] to six months in jail, suspending all but three days of which [redacted] served after his arrest at Dulles International Airport Dec. 19, 2003.
Sincavage said what prevented him from taking the case to trial was a lack of proof that [redacted] was attempting to operate the plane.
“It became clear that there was going to be substantial evidentiary issues about him operating [the plane] and it was going to be pretty hard to prove this thing beyond a reasonable doubt,” he said.
Sincavage said there was alcohol in [redacted]’s system that night—the blood toxicology report stated [redacted] had a level of 0.07—but it would have become a controversial issue at trial whether [redacted] was actually impaired to pilot the plane.
A Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority representative said that an airport employee smelled alcohol on [redacted] and noticed his speech was slurred shortly before the plane was to fly to London. A police sergeant who arrested [redacted] also noted that he smelled alcohol on [redacted] and that he stumbled in the cockpit.
Although he was placed on administrative leave with pay, [redacted] resigned from Virgin Atlantic in March. The FAA conducted an investigation of the case but a representative would not release the details of the investigation.
http://www.leesburg2day.com/current....19&newsid=9243
