FAA leap in to protect... whom?
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sorry Huck and Bubba,the names were random I promise and no insult intended.
Mr Wino,it is indeed the FAA,It maybe that the Congressmen thought of it but the FAA approved it:see ref below
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Parts 121 and 135
[Docket No. FAA-2004-18477]
RIN 2120-AI24
Aircraft Assembly Placard Requirements
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.
ACTION: Final rule.
Mr Wino,it is indeed the FAA,It maybe that the Congressmen thought of it but the FAA approved it:see ref below
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Parts 121 and 135
[Docket No. FAA-2004-18477]
RIN 2120-AI24
Aircraft Assembly Placard Requirements
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.
ACTION: Final rule.
"The INTRODUCER"
Not so Matkat, the FAA was told to do it as part of the 2003 Reauthorisation Bill, without which there would be no FAA.
You notice that the FAA is too embarrassed even to attempt to provide a justification for it as is normal with new rules.
But it does point out that it will cost airlines $500,000 to comply!
Happily the compliance date is June 2005, by when democratic events may have overtaken the idiots behind this.
Meanwhile, enjoy all those proud "Made in Brazil" and "Made in Canada" stickers on the 1,500 (and rapidly growing) regional jets in the US.
As the information is mandated to be stuck on the evacuation guides, one possible text is: This airplane was assembled in France. If you mildly object, please leave by the door you entered. If you violently object, the emergency exits are marked on this card.
You notice that the FAA is too embarrassed even to attempt to provide a justification for it as is normal with new rules.
But it does point out that it will cost airlines $500,000 to comply!
Happily the compliance date is June 2005, by when democratic events may have overtaken the idiots behind this.
Meanwhile, enjoy all those proud "Made in Brazil" and "Made in Canada" stickers on the 1,500 (and rapidly growing) regional jets in the US.
As the information is mandated to be stuck on the evacuation guides, one possible text is: This airplane was assembled in France. If you mildly object, please leave by the door you entered. If you violently object, the emergency exits are marked on this card.
I guess we won't be seeing to many manufactored in the UK now will we? At least now that the Concorde is toast. Wait, just remembered that was French as well, you blokes just liked to talk it up.
Trash du Blanc
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sorry Huck and Bubba,the names were random I promise and no insult intended.
BTW, the funniest "label" joke I know: during the Los Angeles riots a decade ago, Jim Carrey (the only white dude on the TV show "In Living Color") said he wasn't worried - he just walked around with a sign on his back saying, "Black Owned."
Brunel to Concorde
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At least now that the Concorde is toast. Wait, just remembered that was French as well ................
Come to think of it, the last one built (G-BOAF) flew back to Filton on 26 November last year (the last ever Concorde flight unless a miracle happens) and is now a permanent resident there.
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Every modern complex product (Aircraft, computers etc etc) includes components, sub-assemblies and assemblies from sources in just about every part of the world - its called globalization - we may like it or we may dislike it but there is nothing anyone is going to do to stop it now
there is no such thing as an "American Aircraft" or a "English Aircraft" or any other xxxxxxxxx Aircraft!!!! ..... there hasn't been for years
cheers ....
there is no such thing as an "American Aircraft" or a "English Aircraft" or any other xxxxxxxxx Aircraft!!!! ..... there hasn't been for years
cheers ....
MV
Do you speak of the AIRBUS owned facilities at Bristol, UK?
"Hmmmm....and didn't the septics waste more on their wooden mockup than was ever spent on Concorde......"
Glad we didn't build it. Would have been as equally a money pit as the concorde. Techno success was the concorde, on life support financially from day one. Ours might of had a larger production run however. Good thing the UK government subsidized the program until BA took over in 1984 or its retirement might have come earlier.
Good news, I suppose you can hoop and holler about BAC jets now, are they still be manufactured? Other than that is takes a collaborative effort of Euro governments and the heavy industries of same to take on one American company.
There something to be proud of. But only be proud of your percentage of the plane.
Do you speak of the AIRBUS owned facilities at Bristol, UK?
"Hmmmm....and didn't the septics waste more on their wooden mockup than was ever spent on Concorde......"
Glad we didn't build it. Would have been as equally a money pit as the concorde. Techno success was the concorde, on life support financially from day one. Ours might of had a larger production run however. Good thing the UK government subsidized the program until BA took over in 1984 or its retirement might have come earlier.
Good news, I suppose you can hoop and holler about BAC jets now, are they still be manufactured? Other than that is takes a collaborative effort of Euro governments and the heavy industries of same to take on one American company.
There something to be proud of. But only be proud of your percentage of the plane.
IF true, such a bill in Congress shows how detached a few members are from reality.
The only thing that most passengers care about is the Ticket Price.
When we were stuck on the ramp/taxiways in Newark tonight for an hour and a half (no way to get a word in with Gate Control or Ground...
), we should have reminded the passengers, "but isn't the ticket price good for some of you?" No passenger has ever asked me where the plane was built.
Few, if any passengers, give a d**n where the plane was built. If they do care, what percentage go out of their way or spend more for a ticket just to avoid a type(s) which concerns them, other than irrational, very nervous fliers?
In the past, after riding in the cabin of a regional jet and clearly overhearing two women's very ignorant comments regarding the size of the plane (larger than many CEO's corporate jets). After suggesting that they are welcome to stop by the ####### (flightdeck) after landing to ask a fewquestions, they say "oh that's ok, we just want to get there". Most spend their whole lives completely in the dark about aviation-but don't want to be enlightened. Many prefer to believe hearsay, and sometimes even superstitions. A parallel example is that letting much rain fall on your head can make you sick.
They say that the Dark Ages are far behind us. On the contrary!
The only thing that most passengers care about is the Ticket Price.
When we were stuck on the ramp/taxiways in Newark tonight for an hour and a half (no way to get a word in with Gate Control or Ground...
), we should have reminded the passengers, "but isn't the ticket price good for some of you?" No passenger has ever asked me where the plane was built.Few, if any passengers, give a d**n where the plane was built. If they do care, what percentage go out of their way or spend more for a ticket just to avoid a type(s) which concerns them, other than irrational, very nervous fliers?
In the past, after riding in the cabin of a regional jet and clearly overhearing two women's very ignorant comments regarding the size of the plane (larger than many CEO's corporate jets). After suggesting that they are welcome to stop by the ####### (flightdeck) after landing to ask a fewquestions, they say "oh that's ok, we just want to get there". Most spend their whole lives completely in the dark about aviation-but don't want to be enlightened. Many prefer to believe hearsay, and sometimes even superstitions. A parallel example is that letting much rain fall on your head can make you sick.
They say that the Dark Ages are far behind us. On the contrary!
Last edited by Ignition Override; 5th Jul 2004 at 04:30.
Brunel to Concorde
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West Coast
Your argument is now veering away from the original thread. I merely chose to correct your factual inexactitude when you said Concorde was French. It was a joint Franco/British initiative and Concordes were built and rolled out both in the UK (Bristol) and in France (Toulouse).
As to the wider debate of subsidies and commercial viability that has been aired so many times and is probably no longer worth pursuing when it comes to Concorde, because we are talking about history.
Scottie
I wrote Bristol, England to differentiate it from the many Bristols in the USA.
But of course you are quite right about the UK and you might note that I have always used 'Bristol UK' as my address on PPRuNe.
Your argument is now veering away from the original thread. I merely chose to correct your factual inexactitude when you said Concorde was French. It was a joint Franco/British initiative and Concordes were built and rolled out both in the UK (Bristol) and in France (Toulouse).
As to the wider debate of subsidies and commercial viability that has been aired so many times and is probably no longer worth pursuing when it comes to Concorde, because we are talking about history.
Scottie
I wrote Bristol, England to differentiate it from the many Bristols in the USA.
But of course you are quite right about the UK and you might note that I have always used 'Bristol UK' as my address on PPRuNe.
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For those abroad who mock the idiosyncracies of the U.S. legislative bodies......so do most Americans...but furriners should please show some respect while doing it.
This is what freedom is all about.... If some opinionated fool, who has manged to get elected in a generally very competitive process, has enough marbles to trade favors with his peers, then he can pass a stupid, largely-harmless bill of law that does just about anything -- and can then he can take exaggerated credit for it from there on 'til the grave gets him.
The American congresses have, on various occasions, certified in law that water will run uphill, that time will run backwards, and that no persons will never say certain bad words...
No wonder the Brits finally gave up on their North American colonies. No sense of limits! No decorum. Tsh.
This is what freedom is all about.... If some opinionated fool, who has manged to get elected in a generally very competitive process, has enough marbles to trade favors with his peers, then he can pass a stupid, largely-harmless bill of law that does just about anything -- and can then he can take exaggerated credit for it from there on 'til the grave gets him.
The American congresses have, on various occasions, certified in law that water will run uphill, that time will run backwards, and that no persons will never say certain bad words...
No wonder the Brits finally gave up on their North American colonies. No sense of limits! No decorum. Tsh.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
arcniz: This is what freedom is all about.... If some opinionated fool, who has manged to get elected in a generally very competitive process, has enough marbles to trade favors with his peers, then he can pass a stupid, largely-harmless bill of law that does just about anything -- and can then he can take exaggerated credit for it from there on 'til the grave gets him.
Unfortunately, the collective wisdom seems to have gone for a walk this time.
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Sorry to be pedantic, but this issue is deeper than :where the aircraft was made: - are they going to differentiate between the airframe and the engines? You can get Airbuses with US or Euro made engines, and likewise Boeings - so are the oliticians looking to apportion blame to grounded flights that go tech?
I'd be happier with a sticker that says maintainence performed by and that agency listed!
I'd be happier with a sticker that says maintainence performed by and that agency listed!
Legislative bodies all over the world are just about the same. This particular piece of asinine legislation might seem to indicate the ineffectiveness of US airline lobbying which, presumably, should have been fighting it tooth and nail.
Many posts here are focussing on the Airbus vs Boeing issue. My feebly fertile brain conjures up images of outraged American passengers storming off A321s after reading the label on the seatback, demanding their money back. Or, more insiduously, vowing never to fly ABC again because they don't buy American.
Think a few years down the road. I read last week that the first lot of six Embraer something or others built under license in China had just been delivered. How ridiculous is it going to look when the passengers on those shiny new 737-1000s or A370s sit down and read, on that $500,000 label, "Final assembly in PRC"?
Many posts here are focussing on the Airbus vs Boeing issue. My feebly fertile brain conjures up images of outraged American passengers storming off A321s after reading the label on the seatback, demanding their money back. Or, more insiduously, vowing never to fly ABC again because they don't buy American.
Think a few years down the road. I read last week that the first lot of six Embraer something or others built under license in China had just been delivered. How ridiculous is it going to look when the passengers on those shiny new 737-1000s or A370s sit down and read, on that $500,000 label, "Final assembly in PRC"?
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US Legislators... better than the French!
One of the US states officially decreed the value of 'pi' to be 3, once upon a time. I guess they wanted to get away from faffing around with all those little numbers to the right of the decimal point.
We shouldn't have a problem with kit from Brazil or Canada, since we can just say 'Made in America' and leave it at that, when your average Yank won't know the difference. 'Made in Germany' usually plays well too, thanks to our notion of German quality standards.
'Made in France', though... images of some surly guy with a blue chin, a beret and a Gauloise hanging out of the corner of his mouth, saying 'I am le tired! Slam ze panel on wizout bucking ze rivets. Is time for le coffee break!'
Here in Germany we have, yes, BMWs and Mercs made in the USA. German manufacturers must just love the idea of using a low-wage labour force. With lots of remedial training quality standards have come up to acceptable levels. Not as good as German standards, but then, what is? At least they can make a profit selling the vehicles at competitive prices.
The Japs have been building vehicles in the States for quite some time now. They hit some trouble getting our folk to wear the mandatory Company uniforms with no-scratch buttons, while our womenfolk took issue with the male-dominated Jap way of doing business as well. A few class-action suits later, there has been a two-way, full and frank exchange of views so that the combination of Jap brains and American muscle has gone from strength to strength.
I got a ride in a new Bentley the other day, the one with an engine made up of three Golf units all crammed together. It was a rather strange amalgam of trad English styling accents (shiny chrome knobs for the fresh air vents and the usual polished walnut dashboard, for example) and underlying German design. How would you label that, if you had to?
Given that the SLF board through a jetway that affords almost no view of the aircraft itself, some silly little label is perhaps the only way they could be made aware of riding in a European product instead of one from the USA. Would that make any difference if the price is right? As if! Or should we next see operators playing the patriot card by stating that their fleet is American-made?
We shouldn't have a problem with kit from Brazil or Canada, since we can just say 'Made in America' and leave it at that, when your average Yank won't know the difference. 'Made in Germany' usually plays well too, thanks to our notion of German quality standards.
'Made in France', though... images of some surly guy with a blue chin, a beret and a Gauloise hanging out of the corner of his mouth, saying 'I am le tired! Slam ze panel on wizout bucking ze rivets. Is time for le coffee break!'
Here in Germany we have, yes, BMWs and Mercs made in the USA. German manufacturers must just love the idea of using a low-wage labour force. With lots of remedial training quality standards have come up to acceptable levels. Not as good as German standards, but then, what is? At least they can make a profit selling the vehicles at competitive prices.
The Japs have been building vehicles in the States for quite some time now. They hit some trouble getting our folk to wear the mandatory Company uniforms with no-scratch buttons, while our womenfolk took issue with the male-dominated Jap way of doing business as well. A few class-action suits later, there has been a two-way, full and frank exchange of views so that the combination of Jap brains and American muscle has gone from strength to strength.
I got a ride in a new Bentley the other day, the one with an engine made up of three Golf units all crammed together. It was a rather strange amalgam of trad English styling accents (shiny chrome knobs for the fresh air vents and the usual polished walnut dashboard, for example) and underlying German design. How would you label that, if you had to?
Given that the SLF board through a jetway that affords almost no view of the aircraft itself, some silly little label is perhaps the only way they could be made aware of riding in a European product instead of one from the USA. Would that make any difference if the price is right? As if! Or should we next see operators playing the patriot card by stating that their fleet is American-made?
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Amazingly stupid idea. The clincher is the the 'finally assembled' phrase, not 'made in' but finally assembled. So naturally Airbus was 'finally assembled in France' which is a total distortion considering the multinational and indeed partly American construction of all Airbuses. In fact a remarkable 50% of the Airbus A380 will be American components.
I imagine the idiots who came up with this idea originally intended it to say 'Made in' until someone pointed out that no aircraft was made in any one country anymore. Think of the expense of trying to add all the countries to the list on the sticker. Certainly no Boeing is. You know it really makes you wonder at the intelligence of elected representatives.
I imagine the idiots who came up with this idea originally intended it to say 'Made in' until someone pointed out that no aircraft was made in any one country anymore. Think of the expense of trying to add all the countries to the list on the sticker. Certainly no Boeing is. You know it really makes you wonder at the intelligence of elected representatives.
Title? What title?
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A genuine question - do you pro's think it possible that arguements may arise from patriotic dullards, having brought a ticket and then objecting to travelling in an aircraft built somewhere they don't like that week?
What ever next - will petrol stations have to supply little stickers saying the petrol here originated from oil extracted from xxx country ?
Madness
What ever next - will petrol stations have to supply little stickers saying the petrol here originated from oil extracted from xxx country ?
Madness