Recruitment woes at BA.
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JBC / HF
I see your points and know BA tactics all to well.
The point i was trying to get across is concerning the numerous posts to perspective DEPs,yes there will be little chance of a command if they are middle aged and it will take 24 years to make top pay - However this is all the doing of the current pilot population via BALPA not BA.
I do my share of slagging BA ( most of it justified ) but i feel sure they would happily balance up the incrument scheme if they could,i know what your going to say but i dont believe that they want 24 incruments or the current seniority scheme,it is the way it is but not at the hands of BA.
HF -
Quote " I think ground engineering works this way too (although not necessarily at BA perhaps?) "
BA engineering = same pay and conditions 2 years or 32!
I see your points and know BA tactics all to well.
The point i was trying to get across is concerning the numerous posts to perspective DEPs,yes there will be little chance of a command if they are middle aged and it will take 24 years to make top pay - However this is all the doing of the current pilot population via BALPA not BA.
I do my share of slagging BA ( most of it justified ) but i feel sure they would happily balance up the incrument scheme if they could,i know what your going to say but i dont believe that they want 24 incruments or the current seniority scheme,it is the way it is but not at the hands of BA.
HF -
Quote " I think ground engineering works this way too (although not necessarily at BA perhaps?) "
BA engineering = same pay and conditions 2 years or 32!
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WTM
Still spreading untruths
The pay deal last year tried to reduce the paypoints from 24 to 18, then as a compromise 20 BA would you belive would not move one inch on this point so don't blame BALPA or the Pilots for this!
Get your FACTS right before you post
Still spreading untruths
The pay deal last year tried to reduce the paypoints from 24 to 18, then as a compromise 20 BA would you belive would not move one inch on this point so don't blame BALPA or the Pilots for this!
Get your FACTS right before you post
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Da Dog
I cant comment on the exact details but i suspect it would have cost money and thats why they didnt go for it .
- a lower average basic would also affect NAPs pensions, i suspect the proposal to reduce the number of paypoints that BALPA tabled didnt have a lower top end ie it wasnt a averaging over a career exercise rather a lets get rich quicker one.
I am not on a wind-up here ( well i was after a nibble with the DEP Captains bit,) just pointing out that you have a excessively long incrument scheme that makes joining BA unattractive for middle aged people,would you as a group accept a averaging exercise and say 5 - 10 paypoints -- depends when you joined?
I cant comment on the exact details but i suspect it would have cost money and thats why they didnt go for it .
- a lower average basic would also affect NAPs pensions, i suspect the proposal to reduce the number of paypoints that BALPA tabled didnt have a lower top end ie it wasnt a averaging over a career exercise rather a lets get rich quicker one.
I am not on a wind-up here ( well i was after a nibble with the DEP Captains bit,) just pointing out that you have a excessively long incrument scheme that makes joining BA unattractive for middle aged people,would you as a group accept a averaging exercise and say 5 - 10 paypoints -- depends when you joined?
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well a few years ago i remember when Big airways had a recruitment drive, about the time they spent all the money on 'ethnic tails' and employed an agency who had no idea whatsoever about qualifications etc ! upon informing said DEP recruiter !! that i had several thousand hours on 767's the next question i got was 'did i have a multi-engine rating ? ' - actually did me a favour -but that's life ! 
Latest rumour is that, in order to delay the date on which the first pilot is to be recruited on the Money Purchase Scheme - and which will lead to trouble, BA is considering removal of the CRA for all existing pilots (which is what they will have to do by October 2006 anyway).
Junior trash
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Dont think that'll work 90% of the guys i fly with are gagging to retire/ spend crystallised pension etc. Its all ex Hamble guys retiring. Its a couple of years before the majority of the ex RAF etc DEPS get there.
I could well be wrong but I thought that the "Super!? sim went to EAC at BOH, together with the a/c.
I am glad to say that I have not had the pleasure of the 1-11 in this millenium(just)
If you think the Cranebank 1-11 is bad news then you then you would not want to experience "St thetic" in Dublin
When it started life in the Iron Age the sim thought it was an EI 200 series, it was then told to be a 3/400, fine, but then came the 500 New Leading Edge( for the charter market) , nice quick panel change for the sim engineers, but I never managed to complete a session without a couple of tantrums luckily nobody ever told it to be "a Super 1-11 " although it was quite happy as 1-11-500(old leading edge)which was the original 500 series , which BA "Improved"!
I am glad to say that I have not had the pleasure of the 1-11 in this millenium(just)
If you think the Cranebank 1-11 is bad news then you then you would not want to experience "St thetic" in Dublin
When it started life in the Iron Age the sim thought it was an EI 200 series, it was then told to be a 3/400, fine, but then came the 500 New Leading Edge( for the charter market) , nice quick panel change for the sim engineers, but I never managed to complete a session without a couple of tantrums luckily nobody ever told it to be "a Super 1-11 " although it was quite happy as 1-11-500(old leading edge)which was the original 500 series , which BA "Improved"!
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WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..................the words bmi and training department appeared in the same sentence during this thread...................
Obviously an accident of the English language and not a belief that bmi has the organisation or capability to decribe, what occurs, as either training or a department.
Come on lads and lassies, tell the truth............
BA clearly require their aircrew to demonstrate good old fashioned IFR handling skills.
Just wanted to make sure I'm not wasting my time teaching my cadets how to actually operate an aircraft.
SS
..................the words bmi and training department appeared in the same sentence during this thread...................
Obviously an accident of the English language and not a belief that bmi has the organisation or capability to decribe, what occurs, as either training or a department.
Come on lads and lassies, tell the truth............
BA clearly require their aircrew to demonstrate good old fashioned IFR handling skills.
Just wanted to make sure I'm not wasting my time teaching my cadets how to actually operate an aircraft.
SS
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Sunswede...............
I think there may be some resentment to your slur on the bmi training department,which is respected within the industry.
Please give us some actual details on which you base your slanderous statement,so that those who are about to experience it can be prepared!
Gerrupta Singh.
I think there may be some resentment to your slur on the bmi training department,which is respected within the industry.
Please give us some actual details on which you base your slanderous statement,so that those who are about to experience it can be prepared!
Gerrupta Singh.
Last edited by karaoke; 19th Jul 2004 at 09:24.
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Lottery
As an ex-BA driver ( surplus at 55 ) I now fly with lots of young motivated copilots who are (nearly all ) keen to join BA or Virgin.
I am constantly amazed how many excellent candidates are issued with a 'thanks but no thanks' by BA before even being offered an i/view , and now read how few are getting through at all and that BA are 'worried'.
But then again , I am not that surprised really , because I know that the initial applications get nowhere near a 'real pilot ' until they have been summarily treated to a lottery by an agency who are hired by BA to sort the applications. Picture it now , as your carefully worded CV rises to the top of the pile at 4.55 pm on a hot Friday afternoon.........oops , it went in the recycle bin ......never mind , its only someones life and dreams gone up in smoke.
Believe me , this happens a lot , to some excellent candidates , even A320 and B737 rated copilots.
Take my advice and try again , maybe this time it will rise to the top at 0905 on a Tuesday !!!!
Good luck - you will never regret joining BA or Virgin.
I am constantly amazed how many excellent candidates are issued with a 'thanks but no thanks' by BA before even being offered an i/view , and now read how few are getting through at all and that BA are 'worried'.
But then again , I am not that surprised really , because I know that the initial applications get nowhere near a 'real pilot ' until they have been summarily treated to a lottery by an agency who are hired by BA to sort the applications. Picture it now , as your carefully worded CV rises to the top of the pile at 4.55 pm on a hot Friday afternoon.........oops , it went in the recycle bin ......never mind , its only someones life and dreams gone up in smoke.
Believe me , this happens a lot , to some excellent candidates , even A320 and B737 rated copilots.
Take my advice and try again , maybe this time it will rise to the top at 0905 on a Tuesday !!!!
Good luck - you will never regret joining BA or Virgin.
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.... getting back to a question raised many pages previously ....
Does anyone have any info about the profiles that are being flown on the 1-11 during selection at the moment.
ANY info would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks everyone.
Does anyone have any info about the profiles that are being flown on the 1-11 during selection at the moment.
ANY info would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks everyone.
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I think there may be some resentment to your slur on the bmi training department,which is respected within the industry.
Not fact.
Fact is, the new generation of pilot leaves Oxford with 250 hours (or whatever), a small slice of that on a light twin, and then lets a computer festooned aeroplane (e.g. Airbus) mask his lack of skill and experience for the rest of his career.
Said pilot thinks he's the ace of the base, ignoring the massive assistance of a load of microcircuits.
Until, that is, it all goes wrong one dark and windy night, all the microcircuits go "fizz", and our ace is left looking at............
..........a BAC 1-11 cockpit (in essence).
Nearly 20 years ago I attended the interview, and was told that the phsycometric testing indicated that I was a poor risk for flight deck training. I was then shown the door.
At the time I had done 14 years as a RAF pilot and QFI, and was employed by DAN AIR as a BAC 1-11 captain. Total flying hours just under 10,000.
Still I suppose they knew best, just ask some of my current FOs!
At the time I had done 14 years as a RAF pilot and QFI, and was employed by DAN AIR as a BAC 1-11 captain. Total flying hours just under 10,000.
Still I suppose they knew best, just ask some of my current FOs!
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Problem is Staircase you were ex DAN Air, they have a BIG problem for some reason with those 6 lettters. Problem I feel eminates from BALPA but I don't wish to reopen that Hornets nest.
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Val d'Isere
Let me tell you about those Oxford guys with <200 hours...
I do around 200 assessments a year for various airlines (which will give the game away to many) and the guys and gals from Oxford and Cabair fly very disciplined and smooth IF and asymmetric - and all raw data.
And I could tell you about some of the pilots I've seen with thousands of hours on bigjets doing the same assessment - but I don't think you'd believe me.
Dark and stormy night? All the automatics failed? I'd be quite happy with one on these well-trained young guys next to me.
..and btw I'm ex-military and no direct connection with above mentioned civilian schools..
Let me tell you about those Oxford guys with <200 hours...
I do around 200 assessments a year for various airlines (which will give the game away to many) and the guys and gals from Oxford and Cabair fly very disciplined and smooth IF and asymmetric - and all raw data.
And I could tell you about some of the pilots I've seen with thousands of hours on bigjets doing the same assessment - but I don't think you'd believe me.
Dark and stormy night? All the automatics failed? I'd be quite happy with one on these well-trained young guys next to me.
..and btw I'm ex-military and no direct connection with above mentioned civilian schools..
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Just extrapolating your thinking out then a bit Joyce tick.......those of us who fly around in the most awful weather....all on raw data doing it for real, night after night..single pilot or multi-crew....with a couple of thousand hours of this under our belt....should it would seem, make a better fist of things than say a 20yr old with 250hrs?....dont forget that the ability to stump up 20k for a type rating goes a long way as well.
Just a thought
cheers
H
Just a thought
cheers
H
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Not quite sure what you're getting at Haughtney - but obviously the more time you have at raw IF, the better you'd become I would have thought. I also flew Senecas, twin Coms etc for a couple of years and agree that it works wonders for the scan.
I was just a bit mad at Val's put down of low-houred guys in general, when it's the training and disciplines that count more...
I was just a bit mad at Val's put down of low-houred guys in general, when it's the training and disciplines that count more...