Plane lands at Air Force base by mistake
Well, I certainly gave Haverfordwest aerodrome the benefit of a Hunter bluenote one day.... Called 'Right Initial' to Brawdy and set up for the usual 420 KIAS, 1000 ft join - then realised my error, tweaked back on the control column and just avoided their ATZ! Funny thing was it was the clearest day for months and no-one ever complained.
Then there was the incident in 1974 when a Gnat student was flying a PAR approach on an actual diversion to Shawbury. All was going fine until the instructor took control - and landed at Sleap.......
Countless approaches (and the odd landing) made at Dishforth instead of Leeming.
A VC10 pilot who made an interesting approach on Milltown instead of Kinloss - and then on the way back did the same thing at Fairford instead of Brize Norton!
Perhaps the best was the German who presented the RAF with its first Focke Wulf Fw 190 having mistaken the Bristol Channel for the English Channel - and only realised the mistake when, after chewing out an airman for failing to salute, the pilot was rather surprised to find himself looking down the barrel of a service revolver!
But none of these was by a commercial air transport aircraft flown by a professional airline crew!
Then there was the incident in 1974 when a Gnat student was flying a PAR approach on an actual diversion to Shawbury. All was going fine until the instructor took control - and landed at Sleap.......
Countless approaches (and the odd landing) made at Dishforth instead of Leeming.
A VC10 pilot who made an interesting approach on Milltown instead of Kinloss - and then on the way back did the same thing at Fairford instead of Brize Norton!
Perhaps the best was the German who presented the RAF with its first Focke Wulf Fw 190 having mistaken the Bristol Channel for the English Channel - and only realised the mistake when, after chewing out an airman for failing to salute, the pilot was rather surprised to find himself looking down the barrel of a service revolver!
But none of these was by a commercial air transport aircraft flown by a professional airline crew!
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yanks do like their visual approaches don't they !
arn't the hills on the wrong side of the field ?? - but as said before, 'there but for the grace of god' - how many sectors/hours had these blokes done ??
arn't the hills on the wrong side of the field ?? - but as said before, 'there but for the grace of god' - how many sectors/hours had these blokes done ??
Nothing wrong with a visual approach per se - and don't forget that the ILS protected area may be infringed in the US by traffic waiting to depart if the weather is better than 2 miles and 800 ft. So flying an auto-everything instrument approach when the weather is good enough not to need a full ILS could have its own risks......
Edited to add - see item 2.1 in www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD199802.PDF for further info on this.
Edited to add - see item 2.1 in www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD199802.PDF for further info on this.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
So one to add to an increasingly long list?
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BEagle,
One might consider that the NW crew was just slightly fatigued, so made a stupid mistake.
Now it would seem to me that if they indeed were slightly fatigued, all the more reason to use an instrument approach...and not auto-everything is necessary either, hand flown will do nicely.
One has to wonder...why are the same (more or less) classic mistakes still made on a regular basis? Wrong runwany, wrong airport ...good grief.
One might consider that the NW crew was just slightly fatigued, so made a stupid mistake.
Now it would seem to me that if they indeed were slightly fatigued, all the more reason to use an instrument approach...and not auto-everything is necessary either, hand flown will do nicely.
One has to wonder...why are the same (more or less) classic mistakes still made on a regular basis? Wrong runwany, wrong airport ...good grief.
Iconoclast
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Give me liberty or give me death.
Many years ago a civil Convair 440 was setting up to land at Patrick Henry Airport in Newport News, Virginia. He contacted Patrick Henry asking them to turn on their lights. At the same time the US Army airfield at Fort Eustis illuminated their lights. The pilot made a successful landing only to realize he was landing on a Pierced Steel Planking runway and that he was rapidly running out of that. The aircraft overran the runway and came to rest in the mud. They bussed the passengers to nearby Patrick Henry and the next morning the Army pulled the aircraft onto the runway. They had to completely strip the interior of the aircraft and drained much of the fuel from the tanks. The pilot made a successful takeoff and flew to Patrick Henry.
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Globalizer, the list is seemingly endless. Either my Googling skills are wanting or nobody seems to have catalogued all these excursions. Yet. Lots more incidents which I can recall nobody's mentioned.
Normal_Nigel:
"Thought you good ol' boys were the best in the world?
NN"
You may not remember BOAC, "Been over at Cartierville" instead of Dorval in a B-707.
Glass houses and stones etc.
"Thought you good ol' boys were the best in the world?
NN"
You may not remember BOAC, "Been over at Cartierville" instead of Dorval in a B-707.
Glass houses and stones etc.
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I know someone who landed at RAF Brize Norton (big airport, huge runway, lots of big military aircraft around at the time) instead of Bicester (little airport, lots of gliders).
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Back in the '60's "Better On A Camel" put a DH Comet into RAF Changi instead of Paya Lebar International, in spite of the protestations of the controller who refused a visual landing as HE couldn't see the inbound on R20.
After announcing that he could see and WAS landing, said "Camel Driver" proceeded to make his visual approach and landed, and was not pleased to discover his error.
After announcing that he could see and WAS landing, said "Camel Driver" proceeded to make his visual approach and landed, and was not pleased to discover his error.
I wonder if the crew would have been sufficiently alerted by the Honeywell Runway Awareness Advisory System (RAAS), if it were fitted. The system calls the runway direction when on short final.
Would crew be aware of the difference between “Approaching 34” and “Approaching 31”? Such a call may just be enough to trigger the subconscious to question the current course of action.
Would crew be aware of the difference between “Approaching 34” and “Approaching 31”? Such a call may just be enough to trigger the subconscious to question the current course of action.
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How many pro's here have "nearly" lined up with the incorrect runway at the correct airport?
Also, for discussion, I'm wondering if a HUD device played any part in this mistake. Many carriers (including mine) insist that CA flown approaches are 'HUD' assisted, if installed. From an HR perspective, what seems to be forgotten is that while it's great to have the touchdown point positively identified one's scan (and thus most other pertinent info) disappears and the HUD eventually becomes a crutch.
Environmental capture indeed!
Cheers, DD
(glad it wasn't me!)
Also, for discussion, I'm wondering if a HUD device played any part in this mistake. Many carriers (including mine) insist that CA flown approaches are 'HUD' assisted, if installed. From an HR perspective, what seems to be forgotten is that while it's great to have the touchdown point positively identified one's scan (and thus most other pertinent info) disappears and the HUD eventually becomes a crutch.
Environmental capture indeed!
Cheers, DD
(glad it wasn't me!)
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From a lowly 172 pilot. At what point did they decide to go visual, and had they at any stage set up instruments for cross referencing? If they did, did they ever look at them? What happened to CRM? Finally what were radar doing at the correct destination?
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As I mentioned earlier, RADAR services for both the Rapid City airport and Ellsworth AFB are provided by Ellsworth. In that I live my life on the same side of the mic as those tower and approach folks, I am more than a little curious as to how this could have slipped by two towers and an approach controller. Don't get me wrong... there but for the grace of God... I'm just wondering whether any ATC person might have seen this and thought, "what the hell?"
Update...
***********
Plane Landing Catches Runway Painters By Surprise
6/21/2004 5:04:49 PM
Bill Sutton
By now you\'ve probably heard about the off course airliner that grabbed national headlines Saturday by landing on an Ellsworth runway. But what you don\'t know, is what happened while the plane was coming in.
Today three runway painters count themselves very lucky to be alive. Mike Palmer was one of the three painters repainting the runway\'s navigational stripes when they noticed the plane descending. At first they thought it was a fly-over, but when they saw the landing gear come down…they knew there was a problem.
The painters did not receive any advance warning since Ellsworth Air Force Base thought the plane was landing at Rapid City Regional Airport as scheduled.
For security reasons the 117 passengers aboard were forced to stay on the plane for nearly four hours and have since be given free airfare tickets as compensation.
**************
Not in sight, runway 32, cleared to land. A pleasant reminder...
Update...
***********
Plane Landing Catches Runway Painters By Surprise
6/21/2004 5:04:49 PM
Bill Sutton
By now you\'ve probably heard about the off course airliner that grabbed national headlines Saturday by landing on an Ellsworth runway. But what you don\'t know, is what happened while the plane was coming in.
Today three runway painters count themselves very lucky to be alive. Mike Palmer was one of the three painters repainting the runway\'s navigational stripes when they noticed the plane descending. At first they thought it was a fly-over, but when they saw the landing gear come down…they knew there was a problem.
The painters did not receive any advance warning since Ellsworth Air Force Base thought the plane was landing at Rapid City Regional Airport as scheduled.
For security reasons the 117 passengers aboard were forced to stay on the plane for nearly four hours and have since be given free airfare tickets as compensation.
**************
Not in sight, runway 32, cleared to land. A pleasant reminder...
Last edited by av8boy; 22nd Jun 2004 at 18:41.
Runawayedge: Exactly. That was one of my main points. "Certain" airlines still do not require the non-flying pilot, while on a visual approach, to monitor a localizer/VOR course indicator. Don't ever trust a VOR or NDB course to take you to the correct airport or runway-you will sometimes FIRST see the approach lights for the wrong runway.
Don't know if this was the case in RAP, but there was a close call at a southwestern US airport not long ago, which has numerous tightly-spaced parallel runways; another situation where a (correct freq.[?]
) localizer course was not monitored, after a quick sidestep to a parallel runway. We can be distracted just making sure that we are now cleared to land on "19"R. What saved the Captain's job/career, was that he never tried to lie about or cover-up what happened. Pilots normally are 'team-players' and try to meet the challenges of demanding ATC requirements. However, suddenly doing a go-around when one feels a bit uncomfortable about something seems to imply that one is not a team-player, or can't handle the challenge. We don't know yet whether the pilots at Ellsworth AFB voiced any concern.
About four years ago, we were deviating around numerous smaller weather build-ups just west of Eglin AFB (Florida panhandle). The overworked Pensacola Approach controller was confused about how much deviating we needed, but we were on a 190* hdg and he suddenly blurted out "Airline ###, you are cleared for the visual approach to Eglin". He was so busy (Navy trainers nearby?) that he sounded like people were shooting at him. We had never stated that Eglin AFB was in sight (actually about 10 miles at our 10 o'clock), nor had any preceding traffic in sight. I told the FO that the AFB several miles at our 12 o'clock did not look at all like Eglin. He said "roger that-it's Hurlburt AFB (!)". Because we were late, I never took the time to call the ATC guy after we landed. An illegal clearance and perfect trap waiting just for you; having 10,000(+) hours in twin-turbine machines won't necessarily prevent the temptation: it can't hurt to brief the other pilot to assume that the first lights, or a runway in the hot haze with the identical shape and size as the correct one, could be at the wrong runway/airport..
It is tempting to be what they call "mission-oriented". DON'T be just a team-player, or you can be one landing/takeoff away from the end of your career. Check the taxi charts for Cleveland (Hopkins), Ohio (CLE), identical runway layouts near Greenville-Spartenburg (GSP), SC.
Quite a number of our airports do not have a VOR on the field-it is at least six miles away, and the FAA seems to maintain few NDB/LOMs.
Fortunately, based on numerous posts, most Pprune pilots would never begin to mistake an airport...
Don't know if this was the case in RAP, but there was a close call at a southwestern US airport not long ago, which has numerous tightly-spaced parallel runways; another situation where a (correct freq.[?]
) localizer course was not monitored, after a quick sidestep to a parallel runway. We can be distracted just making sure that we are now cleared to land on "19"R. What saved the Captain's job/career, was that he never tried to lie about or cover-up what happened. Pilots normally are 'team-players' and try to meet the challenges of demanding ATC requirements. However, suddenly doing a go-around when one feels a bit uncomfortable about something seems to imply that one is not a team-player, or can't handle the challenge. We don't know yet whether the pilots at Ellsworth AFB voiced any concern.About four years ago, we were deviating around numerous smaller weather build-ups just west of Eglin AFB (Florida panhandle). The overworked Pensacola Approach controller was confused about how much deviating we needed, but we were on a 190* hdg and he suddenly blurted out "Airline ###, you are cleared for the visual approach to Eglin". He was so busy (Navy trainers nearby?) that he sounded like people were shooting at him. We had never stated that Eglin AFB was in sight (actually about 10 miles at our 10 o'clock), nor had any preceding traffic in sight. I told the FO that the AFB several miles at our 12 o'clock did not look at all like Eglin. He said "roger that-it's Hurlburt AFB (!)". Because we were late, I never took the time to call the ATC guy after we landed. An illegal clearance and perfect trap waiting just for you; having 10,000(+) hours in twin-turbine machines won't necessarily prevent the temptation: it can't hurt to brief the other pilot to assume that the first lights, or a runway in the hot haze with the identical shape and size as the correct one, could be at the wrong runway/airport..
It is tempting to be what they call "mission-oriented". DON'T be just a team-player, or you can be one landing/takeoff away from the end of your career. Check the taxi charts for Cleveland (Hopkins), Ohio (CLE), identical runway layouts near Greenville-Spartenburg (GSP), SC.Quite a number of our airports do not have a VOR on the field-it is at least six miles away, and the FAA seems to maintain few NDB/LOMs.
Fortunately, based on numerous posts, most Pprune pilots would never begin to mistake an airport...
Last edited by Ignition Override; 9th Sep 2004 at 04:06.
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So true, Ignition Override
About ten years ago, decided enough was enough, especially while training new First Officers, who generally get behind the aircraft anyway, at times.
ATC askes,
Can you maintain high speed?....Negative, unable.
Can you accept a visual? Negative, unable.
Can you accept a short approach?...Negative, unable.
Period.
ATC got the message loud and clear, and the company didn't complain either.
Better safe than sorry, IMO.
ATC askes,
Can you maintain high speed?....Negative, unable.
Can you accept a visual? Negative, unable.
Can you accept a short approach?...Negative, unable.
Period.
ATC got the message loud and clear, and the company didn't complain either.
Better safe than sorry, IMO.