LONDON TUBE DRIVERS ON PILOTS PAY!
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As I said earlier - we have been here before. You fork out all that money and get paid soo little for your job - AND YET PEOPLE STILL DO IT!!!!! If you don't like the pay and conditions - don't do the job. As long as there are people prepared to spend so muchon training, the pay will continue to reflect this. Simple supply and demand. Ask an air traffic controller if he feels he gets paid enough for the responsibility of his job...
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My true point is that Pilots salaries are withering away in the U.K with time and are not keeping pace. I get the impression that most of the guys & gals here would still do our job for lets say 15000 pounds a year!Great if your living at home with mum and dad! Surely this makes us our worse enemy as we sit back and get left behind. I had more buying power in the 80's as a turbo f.o then a jet captain today.Yes I like my job but it barely offers the living standard today that it once did.I am afraid that the rewards of a cool job alone won't keep the bills off the mat unless of course you have a trust fund?
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BavarianBoy
I never mentioned anything about how easy piloting is, just hinted that any operation needs more than one skill type. A little humility about ones profession and the skills of others goes a long way.
By the way, the reason I don't want your job is that I don't want to sit at 30000 ft all day being irradiated. Quite simple really.
Interesting though that you assume I'm not a pilot. Not all pilots think alike you know.
I never mentioned anything about how easy piloting is, just hinted that any operation needs more than one skill type. A little humility about ones profession and the skills of others goes a long way.
By the way, the reason I don't want your job is that I don't want to sit at 30000 ft all day being irradiated. Quite simple really.
Interesting though that you assume I'm not a pilot. Not all pilots think alike you know.
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Gizusajob: Correct! Pilots are, always have been and as long as people are desperate to fly, always will be, their own worst enemies. The only companies where people are less likely to accept very low salaries, are those with strong Balpa connections. Connected with this, is that unlike many other professions, (Consultants, for example), once you make the left hand seat, to change companies may result in a retreat back to the right, and the commensurate pay cut!
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An ASLEF spokesman has said that tube drivers have similiar responsibilities to airline pilots and that they want to see this reflected in pay (evening standard, thursday)
Given that victoria line drivers just open and close the doors (speeds are controlled by computer) I find statements like this rather suprising!!
Admittedly the job is very dull but to pay people more than doctors for a job that requires no qualifications seems a bit much.
Given that victoria line drivers just open and close the doors (speeds are controlled by computer) I find statements like this rather suprising!!
Admittedly the job is very dull but to pay people more than doctors for a job that requires no qualifications seems a bit much.
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It's quite simple lads and lasses - supply and demand - RB pays his driver (of the always late trains) an above industry rate, because there are not enough of them to go around; a family friend told me that one firm trained a dozen or so, and most bunked off to other operators - no bonding you see - sound familiar; low time pilots hours build with a regional before moving to a bigger line.
Job satisfaction - would you want to be on the Circle line, not knowing whether it is night or day?
Job satisfaction - would you want to be on the Circle line, not knowing whether it is night or day?
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From the job I do I am often struck by the lack of knowledge that people have as to the actual wages that most of the population have to live on.
Here are some hard facts.
1. Less than 1% of the working population earn £100K plus a year. Less than 3% earn £50K and over.
2. 2.7 million workers are in the 40% tax bracket(ie: around £32,000 p.a) That is 9% of the working population.
3. The most common salary in the UK (ie: the salary that the greatest number of people earn) is around £12,500 p.a.
4. Those earning over £100K a year are often not the same people from year to year.
This is because it includes the self -employed, who sometimes have a good year, earning megabucks, which is then followed by a bad year, in which they might actually make a loss.
I'm afraid you guys moaning about your lot in life are forgetting the time honoured maxim that in a capitalist society the wage levels are all driven by supply and demand.
As the old saying goes....if you can't stand the heat don't put your head up the jet-pipe.
Here are some hard facts.
1. Less than 1% of the working population earn £100K plus a year. Less than 3% earn £50K and over.
2. 2.7 million workers are in the 40% tax bracket(ie: around £32,000 p.a) That is 9% of the working population.
3. The most common salary in the UK (ie: the salary that the greatest number of people earn) is around £12,500 p.a.
4. Those earning over £100K a year are often not the same people from year to year.
This is because it includes the self -employed, who sometimes have a good year, earning megabucks, which is then followed by a bad year, in which they might actually make a loss.
I'm afraid you guys moaning about your lot in life are forgetting the time honoured maxim that in a capitalist society the wage levels are all driven by supply and demand.
As the old saying goes....if you can't stand the heat don't put your head up the jet-pipe.
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One should not forget that a certain Dennis Tunnecliffe is now a leading light in London Underground, the same Dennis who was a BOAC F/O, yanked into management because he caused too much trouble whilst still on the shop floor.
Possibly this is his idea of getting his own back?
Possibly this is his idea of getting his own back?
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Absolutely Percydragon, and fortunately for all of us who are in the business, demand seems to be exceeding supply at the moment and we can all look forward to a period of rapidly increasing pay, at least until we plunge into recession!
cheers zzz
cheers zzz
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Anti Skid is right but, only to a degree.
There are no "bonding" agreements on the railway as yet - but they're coming soon.
Virgin Trains have no problem recruiting Drivers from other companies for two reasons -
1st, Drivers want to drive bigger and faster trains.
2nd, The salary and conditions are some of the best in our industry.
The problem is, we have a gentlemans agreement (between most of the passenger companies) not to deliberatley poach existing (qualified) drivers. I took 12 men in one day out of the local train train operating company in Leeds only to find my train home cancelled due to a staff shortage!!
Therefore the main reason for the high salary is due to the fact that it takes 12 to 15 months to train someone "off the street". ASLE&F are also quite a powerfull union - with majority membership throughout the country - and when they say stop EVERYTHING stops.
There are no "bonding" agreements on the railway as yet - but they're coming soon.
Virgin Trains have no problem recruiting Drivers from other companies for two reasons -
1st, Drivers want to drive bigger and faster trains.
2nd, The salary and conditions are some of the best in our industry.
The problem is, we have a gentlemans agreement (between most of the passenger companies) not to deliberatley poach existing (qualified) drivers. I took 12 men in one day out of the local train train operating company in Leeds only to find my train home cancelled due to a staff shortage!!
Therefore the main reason for the high salary is due to the fact that it takes 12 to 15 months to train someone "off the street". ASLE&F are also quite a powerfull union - with majority membership throughout the country - and when they say stop EVERYTHING stops.
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As a tube driver of several years I must admit that it makes me sad to hear of all you poor chaps and lassies up there earning such a pitance and putting up with such lousy work conditions, of coursse most of you deserve it as you dont seem to give a sh*t about your industry or your fellow workers, the industry is in such dire straits due to the fact that very few have been willing to stand united for jobs training, safety etc etc.
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Well Jim is just restating what a few of us have been saying all along. Even though he's probably just a punter trying to elicit a 'certain type of reaction' he's actually hit the nail on the head.
We're our own worst enemies, as can be seen from a reading of the 'bonding' thread I started. It's just unbelievable how so many of us are willing participants in our own shafting. In fact, an impartial observer might be forgiven for thinking that pilots must be a bunch of masochists. How else could a group with such clout be so happy to collude in taking it up the a***e from the likes of Guvnor?
And incidentally. All the PC ***** about traindrivers being 'comparable' in skill, and therefore deserving of equality with pilots...boillox! When did a train driver last have to worry about holding delays over Liverpool station when 'deciding' what fuel to carry? When did he last do a CAT3 approach into Piccadilly? How many PC's has he done in the last year? It's just such a joke to even contemplate.
Good onya traindrivers if you can up your income...no bother with that. But whatever you're worth, a pilot's worth a significant bit more.
We're our own worst enemies, as can be seen from a reading of the 'bonding' thread I started. It's just unbelievable how so many of us are willing participants in our own shafting. In fact, an impartial observer might be forgiven for thinking that pilots must be a bunch of masochists. How else could a group with such clout be so happy to collude in taking it up the a***e from the likes of Guvnor?
And incidentally. All the PC ***** about traindrivers being 'comparable' in skill, and therefore deserving of equality with pilots...boillox! When did a train driver last have to worry about holding delays over Liverpool station when 'deciding' what fuel to carry? When did he last do a CAT3 approach into Piccadilly? How many PC's has he done in the last year? It's just such a joke to even contemplate.
Good onya traindrivers if you can up your income...no bother with that. But whatever you're worth, a pilot's worth a significant bit more.
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Hang on a sec...
British European Shorts 360 F/O's get £19,500 to kick off with, not enough to pay off my student loan and maintain a reasonable standard of living.
Yet, someone who sits in a train and presses "stop" and "go" buttons whilst watching the train go in a straight line for hours on end gets paid double that in some cases? Come on, pull the other one.
At least we can take heart from the fact we have far more fun...
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DJ @ 87.7 Xpression FM
Pilot @ Exeter Airport...
British European Shorts 360 F/O's get £19,500 to kick off with, not enough to pay off my student loan and maintain a reasonable standard of living.
Yet, someone who sits in a train and presses "stop" and "go" buttons whilst watching the train go in a straight line for hours on end gets paid double that in some cases? Come on, pull the other one.
At least we can take heart from the fact we have far more fun...
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DJ @ 87.7 Xpression FM
Pilot @ Exeter Airport...
