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Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.


Old 15th Mar 2001, 20:01
  #1 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

I hear London tube drivers are in for a 12% pay rise that will take their earnings over 30 000 pounds a year. Whats more they get home every night, dont get loads of radiation and have a family life etc.
Am I the only one that thinks that pilots pay is way behind the times! After all airlines will only pay what they can get away with paying...comments please folks!
P.s I do not begrudge the Tube Drivers salaries...just want to highlight the issue.
Old 15th Mar 2001, 20:38
  #2 (permalink)  
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Hmmm... Let's take a look at this :

TUBE: 8 hours a day, 6 days a week (?), driving a train through pitch black dusty tunnels.

AIRLINE: Various machinery/destinations/schedules, duty pay, foreign destinations, cool lifestyle.

Hmmmmmmm... Tough one!

[This message has been edited by Stroppalot (edited 15 March 2001).]
Old 15th Mar 2001, 20:44
  #3 (permalink)  
Lou Scannon
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You shouldn't be surprised. It is reported that Richard Branson pays his train drivers 42,000pa which is more than he pays many of his pilots.
Nothing against train drivers, but I can't help comparing the costs of obtaining an ATPL with that of being trained to drive an over or underground train. I think the bottom line is that the train drivers groups have all been union members longer and are not afraid of using their commercial muscle to achieve better pay.
Old 15th Mar 2001, 20:59
  #4 (permalink)  
Doors to Automatic
Posts: n/a

....So, if you are unhappy, re-train (no pun intended!)and become a tube driver.
Old 15th Mar 2001, 21:01
  #5 (permalink)  
Big Red ' L '
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Red face

Virgin trains certainly dont pay their drivers any more than 24k. I know as i have a few mates who drive for them. There is a chance of earning 42k but only if you do all the hours god sends you. That means working 13 on, one off and doing it all over again. There must only be about half a dozen drivers in the uk who earn anything like that amount. No social life at all i imagine. To earn that much is very, very rare indeed although it has been known.

Its not the fall that kills you...Its the sudden stop.....
Old 15th Mar 2001, 21:05
  #6 (permalink)  
Dickey Mike
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Thumbs down

I know someone who has worked on trains as a Driver and who is now flying for a living. Although salaries are similar would you really fancy dealing with the great unwashed general public at a dark unmanned station. He has told me of numerous incidents which as a Pilot one would never have to endure. He knows which job is best without a doubt!!
Old 15th Mar 2001, 21:17
  #7 (permalink)  
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Tube drivers will be subject to plenty of radiation. It is radiation that heats the core of the earth and keeps it molten. The reason mines are hot rather than cold is because they are heated by radiation. It may well be less dangerous radiation than cosmic radiation but there is plenty of it underground.

As for the rest, tube drivers are expected to work in a system that has been badly underfunded for years. As a consequence equipment and safety are not what they should be. Frankly most of their money is probably danger money - just like a pilot's salary.

[This message has been edited by JuniorJetClubber (edited 15 March 2001).]
Old 15th Mar 2001, 21:45
  #8 (permalink)  
Sleeve Wing
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Never mind the tube drivers, just ask a bowser driver what he earns with a little overtime !
When I first got my command the guys at LGW were on way more than I was.
Still, isn't it much more fun nipping away to exotic places in a fast pointy thing ??
Old 15th Mar 2001, 22:00
  #9 (permalink)  
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Sleeve....you're damned right.

Anyway, new and FULLY qualified ATCO at LHR/LATCC = just 27k unti lthe 2 yr point. I know poeple there earning that and they are soooooooo pi$$ed off.

As long as you are happy with yr job. That's really the main thing (after bills have been paid!)
Old 15th Mar 2001, 22:10
  #10 (permalink)  
Mr Chips
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We had this before with comparisons to Maccy Ds. is nobody ALLOWED to earn more than pilots?
Old 15th Mar 2001, 22:33
  #11 (permalink)  
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Hmmm.. i don't think it really a case of pilots earning more than anyone else, just a case of fair pay. Ok, some operators pay good money but lots don't, and how many other jobs do you have to fork out 60-100 grand just for the licence? Yes, i agree, we love our jobs but doesn't mean companies should take advantage. There are the LPC's, OPC's,line checks, medicals, unhealthy, unsociable environment, shorter career time, responsibilities if S**t his the fan. How many pilots even "see" the foreign destinations for more than an hour, all airports look the same from the ramp?
so, there is all that and not to mention the fact that it takes a longer time and more skill(ok pushing my luck) to get to commercial flying standards and maintain those than the average train driver.
Me thinks we love our jobs but general pay and conditions isn't that great.
Will it change?? doubt it!
Old 15th Mar 2001, 23:42
  #12 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a


Well said. It won't change.

Do you really get as long as an hour in the sun? Luxury!

Old 16th Mar 2001, 01:41
  #13 (permalink)  
Champagne Lover
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I have 1500 hours, of which 1300 are turbo-prop.Senior co-jo with my company.
I have cut my living costs to the absolute bone! Next cut is my personal life insurance! Is that also required by my employer???????!!!! to not "live above my standard".
I now have changed my views about "adding value" etc,etc !!I will use a union to the maximum to get as much money as humanly possible out of an employer !
As long as we love flying machines, and qualify ourselves(read that again !),we will always be more than what is needed by the industry. So the employer simply practices supply and demand, for his "bottom line".
Well, his bottom-line, is now also my bottom-line !!
Old 16th Mar 2001, 01:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a

If we actually look at how many hours we work throughout the year and break it down to an hourly rate I think you will agree that we fair pretty well.My rate last year worked out at 80 P/H which isn't bad for a F/O.Now if you look at a train driver earning 35K doing 35 hr week his hourly pay is 19 P/H.

[This message has been edited by fcom (edited 22 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by fcom (edited 22 March 2001).]
Old 16th Mar 2001, 02:00
  #15 (permalink)  
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My heart bleeds at some of the comments.

The only rate for a job is the market rate that any sensible employer pays. (except for big airways that is, who has no sense anyway). Doesn't matter what the job is.

Try telling the bereaved of Paddington/Hatfield and Selby that a train drivers job isn't as responsible as a pilot.

Grow up and stop thinking that the sun shines out of flight crew a**es
Old 16th Mar 2001, 03:08
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
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A friend of mine is a locomotive driver - after 30 years in the railways he has had 12 fatalities out of 8 accidents. None were his fault, i.e. they were mostly suicides with the odd car trying to beat the flashing lights. His wage is average (this is in Oz) and I don't think quite reflects the stress that accompanies the work.
Lurk R is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2001, 03:26
  #17 (permalink)  
flange lubricator
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Virgin Train Drivers have the following pay structure;

Basic - 27k pa
Attendance Allowance - 3k pa
Sunday working approx 1 in 2 - 3k pa

This is for a 35hr week.

Instructor Drivers basic is 29k

I make that 33k pa before additional o/t.

Drivers are rostered a 5 day week with every 5th week off.

They are entitlrd to 32 days annual leave on top.

Red L is right - there are only a few who earn 42k but I know some on more 43+!

The majority will earn 38-39k pa without having to do 13 on 1 off.

Many of us find driving a REAL train (IC 125 HST etc) as satisfying as you guys find landing a 744 at Newark in a crosswind!

I speak with authority on the subject as I have a "type rating" on every type of express train Virgin have. I've also had the priviledge of the jump seat on numerous occasions with the "Train Driver" on the 744.
(He's done a few thousand miles on the throttle of our trains)

Just ask him what he prefers - STEAM!!

[This message has been edited by flange lubricator (edited 15 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by flange lubricator (edited 15 March 2001).]
Old 16th Mar 2001, 04:58
  #18 (permalink)  
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Topman- if our job is so easy and such a good deal, why aren't you doing it?? Maturity is required, perhaps if you actually read the threads you could at least try and see the other side of the coin.
I pity your ignorance, go read a book and eat an apple, it may be more useful to you!

[This message has been edited by BavarianBoy (edited 16 March 2001).]
Old 16th Mar 2001, 05:36
  #19 (permalink)  
Speedbrake UP
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Quite obviously there is no longer any correlation between wage and performance / difficulty of job / responsibilty etc. Otherwise not one single politician ( In my country anyway! ) would be able to support themselves let alone a family, or even pay off a pig farm! No offence meant to any hard working farmers, but most Aussies would know who I berate!
Old 16th Mar 2001, 05:49
  #20 (permalink)  
Cyclic Hotline
Posts: n/a

As renumeration topics appear to be close to the heart of so many threads here on PPRuNe, how does it equate that a senior Captain with the US majors would be ultimately paid more than the President of the USA? (That position only pays $200,000).

Maybe thats why its so difficult to recruit decent politicians?

How does Pilot pay rate in relation to politician pay elsewhere?

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