How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?

[lyuba]

being a pilot has no glamour for some

How about getting $1,500 a month? that is, if you are lucky and work for the flag carrier on international routes.

How about working extra hours over the allowed monthly limit of 75 hours?

How about getting less than prescribed time for rest between flights and then falling asleep in a car on the way home amid traffic going at 90km/h?

Or better still, one pilot died before boarding a 767 from Hong Kong earlier this year.

[Barzha]

The best job in the world for people like me . I have as much fun as I possibly can . I fly visual as much as I can . I am a pilot not just for money , pension et c ... Seeing Alps almost every day - you can't get used to it . It is still beautiful after so many years ...

[MacGriffyn]

I flew military for almost a decade...it wasn't an F-16 or any type of fast, sexy fighter. Every plane I flew was big, slow, heavy, and ugly. I flew tired, sick, hungry, and shot up. Long hours...try flying Washington to Macedonia with one crew. I carried supplies, explosives, ammunition, food, fuel, armoured personnel carriers, artillery, tanks, paratroopers, and anything else that the loadmaster could strap down. I also was falling asleep driving to my house in Western Germany travelling at 130 km/h. I only got U.S. captain's pay, which isn't much. And I loved it.

And anytime I started to feel sorry for myself, I just thought about some of the guys that I went to college with that were serving in the infantry, the artillery, the MP's, or any number of hundreds of jobs where they were on the ground in the deserts, the mountains, the snow, in Africa, the Balkans, Saudi Arabia, Iraq...with crap flying at them. At least I could fly away.

Now I'm civilian and I'm just getting into the big show. I suppose that I don't mind the shuffling of schedules, I'll move if they want...hell, I moved 4 times in 10 years for the AF. I love to watch the sun go down at altitude. I like to take off in the desert and land in the snow. There's still nothing for me like shoving the throttles forward, hearing the roar, and getting to it.

Besides, there's not a whole lot of ground fire coming at me anymore, there's no tactical ingress or egress, and the flight attendants are much nicer and better looking than my old crew chief. Even the food is better. (Of course, anything is better than an MRE thrown at me by a mean, ugly Tech Sgt.)

I suppose that it's all on the perspective of the pilot. In another ten years, maybe my thoughts and feelings will change. But for me, right now, I still get to look at the guys that I went to college with and see them in their offices, at their desks, in their cubes...all staring at the computers and wondering what sunlight is like. And I get to shove the throttles forward and fly away.

Yeah, the industry may be scum, and the "old pilots" are telling me how bad it is now. I'll just nod understandingly, smile, and walk out to whatever plane they want me to fly. I'll do my job that millions of people would kill to do. I'll sit in whatever seat I'm in and when those throttles go forward and that roar starts, I'll smile and love it.

Hey, man...It beats getting shot at.

[mmmbop]

This thread merely proves the age-old adage -
'life's what you make it'

Jump in the seat grumbling about management, LCCs, being awake for hours when you want to be asleep, missing the wife/kids/family, perceived low pay, reduced conditions etc etc etc and the job is going to suck.

Jump in the seat thinking I'm going to have a chat with a great guy/girl in the seat next to me or see something cool from up here.......well then......

I've worked in the military(non-flying), corporate and other worlds, and this is by far the most satisfying career I have had.

Despite what many say - the pay in airlines IS good. Too many haven't seen the life of Mr/Mrs Joe average - heck even Mr/Mrs Joe above average.

Life is what you make it.......enjoy what you have, and not what you think you deserve!

[Idunno]

mmmbop,

Lifes what you make it, yes of course.

But surely the point then is why were you less happy in the other jobs you had?

It seems to infer that there is more to your enjoyment of a job than what you can simply make of it...

Deep...aren't I....

[Ignition Override]

MacGryffin and MMMBop have unique perspectives that I had forgotten about, among others. Interesting, and if any of us could know that we would not be around (in this life) very long, we might enjoy it more.

The long term is probably the main concern for so many here in the US. If we could count on most of our retirement being a strong possibility, then many changes in the short to mid-term would be much easier to adapt to.

[Droopystop]

Before I even started in this buisness, I heard the expression "Bums on Seats". I didn't at first really believe it, but now I do. Boy am I glad I went rotary.

From the posts in this thread and a similar ones in the Wannabee:

In theory, it is possible to go from 0 hrs to fATPL, IR, MCC, 737 type rating in a little over a year. This compares with 4 - 5 years for teachers, accountants, lawyers, engineers and MBAs (even longer for docotrs, vets, architects). Therefore "professional managers" (as opposed to promoted pilots) view pilots as poorly qualified. After all, all they want is a competent "bum on seat". They do not care how good you are. As long as you manage to keep by the ops manual and pass the LPCs and OPCs, that is all they require.

Is it any wonder that Terms and conditions are eroded and pay deals have to be done via a trade union? Pilots have no leverage anymore. You cannot threaten to leave because you cannot be guarenteed to get another job at the same salary.

Aviation is great if you simply want to fly. The moment you start to get involved in company politics it all starts to get you down.

I love flying and wouldn't change it for anything. I had far more control over my last career but suffered more stress and less time off than I do now. I also used to earn far more than I do now.

Life is certainly what you make it.

[fescalised portion]

Well........Here's my take on the topic.

I have been involved in this industry since I left school 16 years ago [half of my lifetime]. I did a 4 yr apprenticeship in A/C maintenance and am now a licenced technician for a large carrier.
I have always wanted to fly the friggers instead of being looked at as a second-class human being, by Nigel every time he steps out of his farty-smelling sharp end coccoon at the end of a flight with a log book full of cabin BS!

Well, I have to say that I couldn't give a about low morale amongst a few of the ungrateful posters on this thread. How would you like it if you had to spend all day waiting around an airport for miserable sods like yourself to arrive, with a log book full of blocked lavs and puked-over seat covers????? I don't think that you realise how lucky you are to have a career like you do.... So many people would give their left arm to swap jobs with you!

Well, I personally have had enough of the cr4p that I do, and I want to be in your shoes, sitting at the front end being respected by everybody sitting behind you.........So I have secured a large chunk of unpaid time off of work to begin training to "Fly the friggers" like you do this September. I know that the industry has it's recruitment problems at the moment, and that the future isn't too bright at present, but I have a profession to fall back on, even if it is talking to manic depressives like yourselve's [You know who you are!].

I'm prepared to give it a go........You only live once, Right?

Chin-Up and be grateful!!!!!!!!

[maxy101]

fescalised portion You´re going to have a hard time of it if you wear that chip on your shoulder when you have to work with us "manic depressives" It will be interesting talking to you 5 years down the line....

[exeng]

fescalised portion (that shiny bit!)

Like you I have been involved in the industry since I left school in the late sixties. I was very fortunate to complete a four year aircraft technician apprenticeship and became an LAE (B707) with a large (at the time) carrier.

I did occasionally feel like I was looked apon as a second class citizen by the operating crew, but the majority of time I was treated with respect.

I didn't particularly enjoy working on a blocked lav, but I did enjoy working in a team trying to solve the odd difficult snag.

I was lucky in being given the opportunity to retrain (at no personal financial cost) and have for decades added to the aroma of that cocoon after a long flight.

Don't imagine for one moment however that you are automatically respected by everybody sitting behind you. The respect is in my experience mutual, I repect others for the contribution they make and I believe some may respect me for my contribution.

I wish you all the best in your training and hope that the investment pays dividends. (Not in cash but in the fulfillment of your ambition)

Most of us are grateful for the opportunities that we were given and really enjoy the challenges that our job provides. However be warned that all may not be as rosy as it seems.


Regards
Exeng

[7p3i7lot]

Danny etal, great thread!
I'll put the question to you all a little differently.
Knowing what you know now and where you think the future will take the pilot job (or profession if you prefer), would you encourage a loved one to enter the field? (Son, daughter, sister brother, best friend etc)

What caveats would you use when deciding? Something like:
1. I'd recommend a pilot career only if that person cared more about flying than anything else and was willing to do it even if they didn't make it to a "Major" airline and had to eat peanut butter sandwiches for 30 years.
2. I'd actively encourage them to get into it for all the perceived benefits of the job even if they were undecided about their love affair with aviation.
3. I'd actively discourage them from going down a long and arduous path without any guarantee of future security or happiness.
4. I'd encourage them to go for it but have that "Plan B" readily available in case.

Me? I went into it for the love of flying and on most days I don't regret it. But for my kids, I think I would go with my first numbered option.

[Barzha]

I would recommend anybody to make their own choice . It is the only way to live in this world and be happy .

[UAL Furlough]

I love reading these posts from people who aren't pilots and saying things like "I would give my left arm to be in your shoes" or "Millions of people would kill to be in your position". Really?? I still got my left arm and I haven't killed a soul. But I did work 2 jobs while going to college, Worked my butt off for two years as a Naval Flight Student, deployed to Seven 6 month deployments in seven years away from my wife and kids while on active duty, got shot at in the desert while living in a tent with 7 other guys and eating camel ribs, spent my own money and studied hard to comlete my civilian flight ratings, sent out 50 resumes and completed 3 interviews to get to the airlines, worked hard and went through 4 full aircraft transitions in 5 years in the airlines, flew through September 11th on to furlough at the same time fulfilling my Military reserve duty. So don't give me that crap that millions would do this or that....because they haven't and they won't. If I want to bitch, I've earned the right.

BTW, I still love to fly but I won't do it for free and I won't be stepped on by management, and I won't accept from anyone that I didn't earn it or don't deserve it.

Just my two cents.

[sheenboy]

I'd argue that many intelligent gifted people who would make great pilots don't do so because the pay is not as good as elsewhere.

I only got as far as being offered a place on the BA Cadet programme some years ago (nothing special I realise) but I turned it down because I'd have to take a pay cut AND the potential 'ultimate' pay was poor.

Fact is you can work in consultancy for various companies on various subjects for at least £200k a year. Doing all hours as well...

The world is a bizarre place....

[jerrystinger]

I don't agree with the thread that being intelligent and gifted equates to being a good candidate for a flying career! It is well known that most pilots are not educated to degree or MA standards! Those that do have higher qualifications go to work in a designer suit and not in a Mcdonald's style outfit with accompanying name badge!

[Superfly]

"I don't agree with the thread that being intelligent and gifted equates to being a good candidate for a flying career! It is well known that most pilots are not educated to degree or MA standards! "

Like if you needed to be educated to show a trace of intelligence !!! Ask George W Bush

YES the job is very diserable indeed

SF

[YVRKid]

the stereotypical wannabe wants to fly 744s long haul...i wanna fly Air Canada A319....i think I need to see a doctor my mom's direct quote after we saw an Air Canada A319 and I told her i was going to fly it..."That dinky piece of " lol

[Morzy]

I�ll tell you guys what is a really 'dream flying job' (at least for me). To fly somewhere in Caribbean region (for example) with your own little bird. Carry beautiful and less beautiful tourists around and between islands. What could be more desirable. Don�t give no about airlines. Working for somebody in any business always includes in someway putting your cavities for use.

[corner speed]

I still enjoy flying the jet plus the layovers or night stops can still be fun. Security sucks, especially in the US. Those dinosaur flight attendants are another problem. Most of them are overweight and they look like . Pay has also gone down the .
So, draw your own conclusions.

[Knave]

How desirable your job as jet pilot is depends on your perspective. Mine is that of a pilot who drove cabs, dug graves and worked night shift in a glass factory to pay for my training. Sure, the pay has deteriorated and the lifestyle can be infuriating, but a good memory stops me spitting the dummy and quitting in protest. No Im not willing to work for peanuts to keep flying, but I know when Im better off than a lot of people I grew up with.