View Poll Results: How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
Only if you're on long haul
135
11.23%
Not very. We're just 'drivers' locked in our cockpits
436
36.27%
It is still glamorous... or at least the idea of it is
494
41.10%
Have you seen my roster? Zzzz...
165
13.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1202. This poll is closed
How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Ireland
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birdbrain where the hell do you work? I want a job there now! Civil service? Nah no money in it. It certainly can't be a private sector company. No wonder you don't want to be an airline pilot. You might have to work 
I liked chimbu chuckles post. It just proves to some extent that life is what you make of it.
I do think he is right. The job may have lost it's allure to people, particularly like birdbrain with his fantastic job. Why would birdbrain give up what he does for a job filled with uncertainty and run by characters like O'Leary who seems to think he can treat pilots and passengers alike for as long as he likes adn still make massive profits.
No, that will change. Become a pilot is massively difficult these days particularly under the JAA. The people who have the money to train as pilots won't need to and wouldn't put up with the hassle and those that don't have the money can't train.
I can forsee major changes in the industry in a few years.
I liked chimbu chuckles post. It just proves to some extent that life is what you make of it.
I do think he is right. The job may have lost it's allure to people, particularly like birdbrain with his fantastic job. Why would birdbrain give up what he does for a job filled with uncertainty and run by characters like O'Leary who seems to think he can treat pilots and passengers alike for as long as he likes adn still make massive profits.
No, that will change. Become a pilot is massively difficult these days particularly under the JAA. The people who have the money to train as pilots won't need to and wouldn't put up with the hassle and those that don't have the money can't train.
I can forsee major changes in the industry in a few years.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I sit there at FL400 getting cancer, always knackered, reading the newspaper, talking about cars, women, motorbikes, etc. Bloody Fantastic.
The industry sucks, it's full of sharks (O'leary, Webster, Eddington etc). We are (to them) an extremely expensive pain in the bum.
Medicals, SOP's, LPC's, FLIDRAS, Security, SEP's, ASR's, blah blah are just irritations to getting up there FL400 getting cancer, knackered, reading Classic Car, talking about boats, holidays (or lack of), money (or lack of), management mismanagement, women.
I've stopped paying into my pension because I'll be dead before I reach retirement (probably) from cancer or some fatigue induced breakdown. That's if they let us retire at 55 or 60 or 65 but I suspect they'll have moved those goalposts by then..
My pay rise this year was just pathetic. My glorious leaders bang on about sharing in the success when in reality they pay me the minimum they feel they can get away with and no more.
But..... tomorrow morning I will get up, kiss my beautiful ( ex - hostie) wife farewell for the day, drive my sports car to work, report with plenty of beautiful potential ex wives, climb up to FL400 get another dose of radiation, read the Telegraph, talk about tits, wine, being knackered, or whatever I manage to find in common with my fellow flight deck prisoner.
Fantastic
The industry sucks, it's full of sharks (O'leary, Webster, Eddington etc). We are (to them) an extremely expensive pain in the bum.
Medicals, SOP's, LPC's, FLIDRAS, Security, SEP's, ASR's, blah blah are just irritations to getting up there FL400 getting cancer, knackered, reading Classic Car, talking about boats, holidays (or lack of), money (or lack of), management mismanagement, women.
I've stopped paying into my pension because I'll be dead before I reach retirement (probably) from cancer or some fatigue induced breakdown. That's if they let us retire at 55 or 60 or 65 but I suspect they'll have moved those goalposts by then..
My pay rise this year was just pathetic. My glorious leaders bang on about sharing in the success when in reality they pay me the minimum they feel they can get away with and no more.
But..... tomorrow morning I will get up, kiss my beautiful ( ex - hostie) wife farewell for the day, drive my sports car to work, report with plenty of beautiful potential ex wives, climb up to FL400 get another dose of radiation, read the Telegraph, talk about tits, wine, being knackered, or whatever I manage to find in common with my fellow flight deck prisoner.
Fantastic
Join Date: Dec 1999
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I've stopped paying into my pension because I'll be dead before I reach retirement (probably) from cancer or some fatigue induced breakdown.
Redline - mate, that is spot on !
That is without doubt the most entertaining post I have ever read on this forum...Nice one mate!!
Wake up for goodness sake!!
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Stan...... Fella you obviously didn't enjoy the tongue in cheek side of my post where as the other guys (and gals) presumably did.
But then I guess if I'd flown with you today and then driven my sports car back home to be greeted by my beautiful (ex hostie) wife, the first thing she would ask me was 'how was your day darling' to which I'd have replied ' It was murder gorgeous, I was flying with some anal tw@t called Stan'...............
But then I guess if I'd flown with you today and then driven my sports car back home to be greeted by my beautiful (ex hostie) wife, the first thing she would ask me was 'how was your day darling' to which I'd have replied ' It was murder gorgeous, I was flying with some anal tw@t called Stan'...............
Join Date: Oct 2001
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My God we really are the biggest saddest bunch of egotistical whinging BS merchants. We all talk the talk but where is any semblance of solidarity. I can honestly say that after 20 yrs in this industry its decline as far as T &C s is concerned has absolutely nothing to do with the market . Gentlemen Ladies look no further than to ourselves.
Join Date: Nov 1998
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irishBoy:
It is still a sh*tty job .......< sorry !>
On a more serious note, it is a good example of how valuable
it is to have a trade. Perhaps the ATPL training should start with
a year as a plumbers mate - as you will need to earn money *after* you finish the ATPL course
It is still a sh*tty job .......< sorry !>
On a more serious note, it is a good example of how valuable
it is to have a trade. Perhaps the ATPL training should start with
a year as a plumbers mate - as you will need to earn money *after* you finish the ATPL course
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Redline - I prefer to take a luxury break at least once or twice a month, drive my sports car to the airport, relax in the lounges, flirt with beautiful, potential ex wives, read the telegraph, actually drink first/club class wines, not just talk about tits, but actually look at some (discreetly!) all while being chauffeured around the skies by someone who can only dream/imagine the above.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Personally, I believe that we (pilots) are being screwed NOW, for as much employers believe they can, realising that there is a SERIOUS pilot shortage less than 3 years, or thereabouts, away.
This is what is making the pilot's job of today so crappy!
Chimbu Chuck - on his little island - apparently still enjoys, "chunks of days at home..." - something that MOST of us now do NOT.
8 days "Off" per month is becoming the "Industry standard" - something that is far LESS than the average 9-5'er, who's home EVERY night, enjoys!
Quite regularly, I and my colleagues are scheduled for a full 4 days away - leaving home around 0620am on the 1st day, and returning 2130-2200 on the 4th day - followed by 1 day "Off", and then the same pattern again.
The "novelty" of Long Haul will wear off, after a few years, Chuck, and the reality of having to fly with toothpicks between your eyelids at 2am/3am/4am (while the jerrystinger's doze, down the back), and then raise the adrenalin to a level suitable to ensure the safe arrival of the aircraft and its contents, will have you realise that BIG, NEW, and FASTER (although the 76 isn't all that new!) is b.s.!
Employers are currently capitalising on the pilot psyche, that MOST pilots will forego EVERYTHING - family, lifestyle, money... - if they can get themselves into the seat of an aeroplane that's BIGGER/NEWER/FASTER, or change seats from the rhs to the lhs - even if it means a salary DECREASE.
But, of course, we pilots always look at our present underpaid position as a temporary setback - a "stepping stone" to bigger and better!
Life IS finite - there is NO guarantee of a tomorrow, especially in aviation. So you'd better work toward improving your CURRENT position, because that might be it, for YOU!
Reading Redline's post again, I doubt that he/she is a pilot, as all of the stuff written (especially) in the final paragraph is not a consideration for pilots, but rather something IMAGINED by envious non-pilots.
The "respect" is no longer in this job, that there was a decade or so ago.
Salaries have been knocked down to far less than those of tradesmen who have far fewer responsibilities, whilst medical standards and monitoring have increased.
In spite of the intensive academic and practical study required of a pilot, it seems that ANY "desk Johnny" can now challenge our decisions - without having to worry about carrying the can, if his/her choice is faulty.
For me, I'm happy to fly whatever's paying the biggest bikkies - whether it's got 1 engine, or 4.
I still enjoy the flying - it's just the (unnecessary) bullsh!t being introduced by people with ZERO previous aviation experience that is turning the profession of pilot into a chore.
This is what is making the pilot's job of today so crappy!
Chimbu Chuck - on his little island - apparently still enjoys, "chunks of days at home..." - something that MOST of us now do NOT.
8 days "Off" per month is becoming the "Industry standard" - something that is far LESS than the average 9-5'er, who's home EVERY night, enjoys!
Quite regularly, I and my colleagues are scheduled for a full 4 days away - leaving home around 0620am on the 1st day, and returning 2130-2200 on the 4th day - followed by 1 day "Off", and then the same pattern again.
The "novelty" of Long Haul will wear off, after a few years, Chuck, and the reality of having to fly with toothpicks between your eyelids at 2am/3am/4am (while the jerrystinger's doze, down the back), and then raise the adrenalin to a level suitable to ensure the safe arrival of the aircraft and its contents, will have you realise that BIG, NEW, and FASTER (although the 76 isn't all that new!) is b.s.!
Employers are currently capitalising on the pilot psyche, that MOST pilots will forego EVERYTHING - family, lifestyle, money... - if they can get themselves into the seat of an aeroplane that's BIGGER/NEWER/FASTER, or change seats from the rhs to the lhs - even if it means a salary DECREASE.
But, of course, we pilots always look at our present underpaid position as a temporary setback - a "stepping stone" to bigger and better!
Life IS finite - there is NO guarantee of a tomorrow, especially in aviation. So you'd better work toward improving your CURRENT position, because that might be it, for YOU!
Reading Redline's post again, I doubt that he/she is a pilot, as all of the stuff written (especially) in the final paragraph is not a consideration for pilots, but rather something IMAGINED by envious non-pilots.
The "respect" is no longer in this job, that there was a decade or so ago.
Salaries have been knocked down to far less than those of tradesmen who have far fewer responsibilities, whilst medical standards and monitoring have increased.
In spite of the intensive academic and practical study required of a pilot, it seems that ANY "desk Johnny" can now challenge our decisions - without having to worry about carrying the can, if his/her choice is faulty.
For me, I'm happy to fly whatever's paying the biggest bikkies - whether it's got 1 engine, or 4.
I still enjoy the flying - it's just the (unnecessary) bullsh!t being introduced by people with ZERO previous aviation experience that is turning the profession of pilot into a chore.
JStinger,
Sorry, but I'm a little confused. You obviously lead a far more glamorous/enriching/rewarding life than mere pilots, (as you take every opportunity to inform us), but cannot, (for reasons only known to you, and suspected by many of us), seem to drag yourself away from PPrune. Could you possibly be one of those sad t*****s known as a frustrated pilot? Pray tell!!!
Sorry, but I'm a little confused. You obviously lead a far more glamorous/enriching/rewarding life than mere pilots, (as you take every opportunity to inform us), but cannot, (for reasons only known to you, and suspected by many of us), seem to drag yourself away from PPrune. Could you possibly be one of those sad t*****s known as a frustrated pilot? Pray tell!!!
Join Date: May 2004
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Yep - very desirable but....
It can't be desirable enough to push me. In my 40's with a well paid day job the prospect of going self-improver from my current 180 hours in Spam Cans; add up the costs of training, plus no salary for however long to the percieved poor prospects of getting a well paid job at the end have always stopped me from going beyond my IMC. Did enough j/s before 9/11 to know from most of the guys & girls I met that the job is very attractive but choices I make have always kept me away from the next step. Doesn't stop me loving the experience of flying and will continue to do until "big brother" tels me I'm too old or kn******d.
It can't be desirable enough to push me. In my 40's with a well paid day job the prospect of going self-improver from my current 180 hours in Spam Cans; add up the costs of training, plus no salary for however long to the percieved poor prospects of getting a well paid job at the end have always stopped me from going beyond my IMC. Did enough j/s before 9/11 to know from most of the guys & girls I met that the job is very attractive but choices I make have always kept me away from the next step. Doesn't stop me loving the experience of flying and will continue to do until "big brother" tels me I'm too old or kn******d.
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I'm just breathless at the reaction of you guys (or gals). If you read my thread closely you will see the point is that despite being knackered, the cancer fears, the constant erosion of status/working conditions and pay, there is no other job I would contemplate. It is simply unbeatable (IMO).
That attitude stands even though I have had at least one bankrupt airline and one unexpected redundancy in just the last 3 years, and that my life is permanently blighted by Webster....
Life's to short to be debating this crap anonymously to other anonymous nobodies. Devil Advocate and Glide seem to be the only guys with a sense of humour.
Your a long time dead..................................
That attitude stands even though I have had at least one bankrupt airline and one unexpected redundancy in just the last 3 years, and that my life is permanently blighted by Webster....
Life's to short to be debating this crap anonymously to other anonymous nobodies. Devil Advocate and Glide seem to be the only guys with a sense of humour.
Your a long time dead..................................
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
You'll grow up one day, Redline, and realise that most of us are trying to PREVENT our conditions of employment from being further eroded - unlike you, who is apparently unwilling to take a stand.
p.s. The "Webster" you refer to is obviously NOT a dictionary! ("Life's to short......Your a long time dead) I coulden even spel pilut unce, know i is won!
p.s. The "Webster" you refer to is obviously NOT a dictionary! ("Life's to short......Your a long time dead) I coulden even spel pilut unce, know i is won!
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I still love it...low cost work is demanding but cant ever beat a sunset at 36000ft and being paid for it..as little as it is..
maybe i should get a second job to afford a bike...
Im broke but i love the job.
Safe Flying,
M.85
maybe i should get a second job to afford a bike...
Im broke but i love the job.
Safe Flying,
M.85
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hmmm... As soon as someone looks at what he/she's doing as a JOB, that means no joy, an obligation, torture perhaps.
If someone does something with pleasure, and you still have that strange feeling of getting paid for it, now thats worth every second of it, and you don't ever think about glamour or status; This is true for every occupation known to humanity.
Being a wannabe's wannabe, I'm looking forward to get my PPL only for my own satisfaction, and I'm prepared to pay (big time!)for it, just to do something you guys get paid to do: FLY.
Does the Jet Pilot Job appeals to me? sure it does, the same way my IT consultant job could appeal to a farmer (or a plummer for that matter). Its only a matter of perspective, something some of you Pilot Sirs seem to lack. There are so many people working 15/16 hrs a day, 6 days a week, getting a 30th of a standard pilot income, having to deal with obnoxious bosses, seeing no nice ladies once in a while, moving around on that smelly bus, or getting nothing to eat during the day...
For all you unhappy people out there, I suggest you take the time to think of this for a moment.
GD&L over and out.
If someone does something with pleasure, and you still have that strange feeling of getting paid for it, now thats worth every second of it, and you don't ever think about glamour or status; This is true for every occupation known to humanity.
Being a wannabe's wannabe, I'm looking forward to get my PPL only for my own satisfaction, and I'm prepared to pay (big time!)for it, just to do something you guys get paid to do: FLY.
Does the Jet Pilot Job appeals to me? sure it does, the same way my IT consultant job could appeal to a farmer (or a plummer for that matter). Its only a matter of perspective, something some of you Pilot Sirs seem to lack. There are so many people working 15/16 hrs a day, 6 days a week, getting a 30th of a standard pilot income, having to deal with obnoxious bosses, seeing no nice ladies once in a while, moving around on that smelly bus, or getting nothing to eat during the day...
For all you unhappy people out there, I suggest you take the time to think of this for a moment.
GD&L over and out.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"having to deal with obnoxious bosses, seeing no nice ladies once in a while, moving around on that smelly bus, or getting nothing to eat during the day..."....GearDown&Locked.
Sounds like a lot of aviation jobs these days!
Admittedly there are a LOT of Redlines out there - pilots who are eager to move up another notch - preferably another 3 or 5, if they can - to bigger/faster/newer. And they're ready to forego just about EVERYTHING, just for the opportunity to sit in the seat of an aeroplane that they think will either make them "feel good" to pole, or perceive will raise their "status".
I wonder if I offered Redline the opportunity to fly a B737NG, how far he would be willing to go...let's see.
Okay, Redline, if I were to make that offer to you - to endorse you on a 737-800, would you be willing to repay the cost of the endorsement to me, spread over monthly repayments taken from your salary (which won't commence until after you are cleared to line) plus a 20% loading on the capital, applied monthly?
My guess is the Redlines would JUMP at this offer, without wanting to know any further employment details.
You're hardly SELLING yourself, are you guys? You're GIVING yourselves away - or in some cases, even PAYING someone to take you.
So what does that really make you worth? Because THAT is all that you'll get back from that enormous outlay you've made to get that far!
Sounds like a lot of aviation jobs these days!
Admittedly there are a LOT of Redlines out there - pilots who are eager to move up another notch - preferably another 3 or 5, if they can - to bigger/faster/newer. And they're ready to forego just about EVERYTHING, just for the opportunity to sit in the seat of an aeroplane that they think will either make them "feel good" to pole, or perceive will raise their "status".
I wonder if I offered Redline the opportunity to fly a B737NG, how far he would be willing to go...let's see.
Okay, Redline, if I were to make that offer to you - to endorse you on a 737-800, would you be willing to repay the cost of the endorsement to me, spread over monthly repayments taken from your salary (which won't commence until after you are cleared to line) plus a 20% loading on the capital, applied monthly?
My guess is the Redlines would JUMP at this offer, without wanting to know any further employment details.
You're hardly SELLING yourself, are you guys? You're GIVING yourselves away - or in some cases, even PAYING someone to take you.
So what does that really make you worth? Because THAT is all that you'll get back from that enormous outlay you've made to get that far!