View Poll Results: How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
Only if you're on long haul
135
11.23%
Not very. We're just 'drivers' locked in our cockpits
436
36.27%
It is still glamorous... or at least the idea of it is
494
41.10%
Have you seen my roster? Zzzz...
165
13.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1202. This poll is closed
How desirable is the 'job' (jet airline pilot) these days?
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Take a look at accident rates now and twenty or thirty years ago!
As has already been pointed out, the status and conditions of all professions has taken a downwards lurch in recent years, not just in airline flying.
UAL Furlough: You said it so very well.
Many of the non-pilot (laymen) wannabes who resent airline pilots never bothered to do whatever they could to earn more than one civilian rating-never mind be willing to fly for the military and get shot at or killed (risk death during operational tng/carrier ops)-and assume that all planes are automated, therefore, no very hard training needed...finally, after years of working your way up, on duty for thirteen hours straight or more with only eight-nine hours (total) in a hotel is "on holiday"? Only five, six or at times seven legs per day, no matter what the weather...
They usually won't admit that First Officers in the smaller planes earn not much more per hour than US minimum wage. They could be in that seat for over two years. But these pilots supposedly have no right to really complain....
Let the laymen wannabes do what is required before they can begin to presume to understand what it is to walk in our shoes, or get laid-off like many thousands around the world.
So many of the laymen understand nothing but think that they know it all.
The envious can simply fill out the applications and mail them in. To paraphrase a certain pilot's famous response to a Cyber-Geek who works from his keyboard and finds most airline pilots grossly over-paid; those who qualify might be called for the interview, if they bother to spend over fifteen thousand dollars for the ratings and are willing to work for peanuts for a while and work for shaky employers on the bottom rungs of aviation. That's just the beginning. Bad luck, violation or a major accident and maybe no more career.
After the thousands of furloughed pilots in the US have been recalled to work, then some wannabe/laymen might have resumes looked at-but what, only Microsoft/television remote control "instrument time"?
Our companies are Equal Opportunity Employers. The geeks/wannabes either are resolved to go down the very long/difficult road or they don't have the required guts/determination, stamina and luck. They can change the tv channel, eat another slice of pizza while they log the necessary "instrument" time, instead of trying to at least earn the Private then instrument ratings, which still do not lead to the minimum-wage entry-level flying jobs. 
In the US, few pilots with 400-500 hours are hired by regional airlines, but with exceptions. Some have been hired, but a Line Check Airmen told me that it is because there is no pay during training for the Canadair CRJ, and many experienced pilots can't financially survive such insulting conditions for several weeks. Those who have made it to the US majors, including the thousands who are now laid off...... , flew turboprops and/or jets for several years, maybe 10-15, before they were hired. The ONLY reason that some companies have had (for many years) very good pay and benefits is not because the airlines felt that pilots were worth it, but on the contrary, because the unions, despite their flaws and compromises, stood up and expected a good bit more, based on years of training and skills acquired, than professionals in some other transportation industries. Now, maybe driving a truck/lorry also requires years of training. I have no idea.
Many of the non-pilot (laymen) wannabes who resent airline pilots never bothered to do whatever they could to earn more than one civilian rating-never mind be willing to fly for the military and get shot at or killed (risk death during operational tng/carrier ops)-and assume that all planes are automated, therefore, no very hard training needed...finally, after years of working your way up, on duty for thirteen hours straight or more with only eight-nine hours (total) in a hotel is "on holiday"? Only five, six or at times seven legs per day, no matter what the weather...
They usually won't admit that First Officers in the smaller planes earn not much more per hour than US minimum wage. They could be in that seat for over two years. But these pilots supposedly have no right to really complain....
Let the laymen wannabes do what is required before they can begin to presume to understand what it is to walk in our shoes, or get laid-off like many thousands around the world.
So many of the laymen understand nothing but think that they know it all.
The envious can simply fill out the applications and mail them in.
To paraphrase a certain pilot's famous response to a Cyber-Geek who works from his keyboard and finds most airline pilots grossly over-paid; those who qualify might be called for the interview, if they bother to spend over fifteen thousand dollars for the ratings and are willing to work for peanuts for a while and work for shaky employers on the bottom rungs of aviation. That's just the beginning. Bad luck, violation or a major accident and maybe no more career. After the thousands of furloughed pilots in the US have been recalled to work, then some wannabe/laymen might have resumes looked at-but what, only Microsoft/television remote control "instrument time"?
Our companies are Equal Opportunity Employers. The geeks/wannabes either are resolved to go down the very long/difficult road or they don't have the required guts/determination, stamina and luck. They can change the tv channel, eat another slice of pizza while they log the necessary "instrument" time, instead of trying to at least earn the Private then instrument ratings, which still do not lead to the minimum-wage entry-level flying jobs. In the US, few pilots with 400-500 hours are hired by regional airlines, but with exceptions. Some have been hired, but a Line Check Airmen told me that it is because there is no pay during training for the Canadair CRJ, and many experienced pilots can't financially survive such insulting conditions for several weeks. Those who have made it to the US majors, including the thousands who are now laid off...... , flew turboprops and/or jets for several years, maybe 10-15, before they were hired. The ONLY reason that some companies have had (for many years) very good pay and benefits is not because the airlines felt that pilots were worth it, but on the contrary, because the unions, despite their flaws and compromises, stood up and expected a good bit more, based on years of training and skills acquired, than professionals in some other transportation industries. Now, maybe driving a truck/lorry also requires years of training. I have no idea.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 10th Sep 2004 at 05:06.
Grandpa Aerotart
From what I hear 'degrees' are not worth the paper they're written on these days...compared to degree courses of 20 years ago.
The whole world is on a race to the bottom of the barrel...we're still paid reasonably well and with worldwide (well outside the US anyway) shortages of qualified pilots I think our terms and conditions are set for an improvement..well if there's any truth to the (beancounter) Law of Supply and Demand.
This job is like any other...if you REALLY want to fly and aren't just a young
who thinks the only flying job worth having is a big shinny jet...then you'll have a good time...as good as any job can be after years and years at it.
For me I'd die a slow death working in an office that didn't have a constantly changing view.
The whole world is on a race to the bottom of the barrel...we're still paid reasonably well and with worldwide (well outside the US anyway) shortages of qualified pilots I think our terms and conditions are set for an improvement..well if there's any truth to the (beancounter) Law of Supply and Demand.
This job is like any other...if you REALLY want to fly and aren't just a young
who thinks the only flying job worth having is a big shinny jet...then you'll have a good time...as good as any job can be after years and years at it.For me I'd die a slow death working in an office that didn't have a constantly changing view.
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After almost 10 years in military aviation which I really enjoyed, I decided it was a good time to try something else. Airline flying had never really appealed to me but I figured I could always try something else if it didn't suit. Surely, if it sucked, the other life would still be available to me and then I could speak with some authority when I said that I didn't want to be a "button pusher".
I did 4 years with a regional outfit and then when the company went bust, did some charter work. I can tell you that I was weak-kneed when my application for another airline job was accepted.
I understand that airline flying has its downfalls, but there are many perks. I now fly for a major carrier and although I miss the "stick and rudder" stuff, the overall benefits of being with a major airline far outweigh these misgivings. The challenges are in different areas and I count my blessings to be where I am today.
I have friends in all areas of aviation and I respect their choices. Many are stuck in their niche due to circumstance, others by choice. At the end of the day, it is all very personal, and depends on your life choices. However, is it not better to make an informed choice rather than to rely on hearsay or common beliefs.
I did 4 years with a regional outfit and then when the company went bust, did some charter work. I can tell you that I was weak-kneed when my application for another airline job was accepted.
I understand that airline flying has its downfalls, but there are many perks. I now fly for a major carrier and although I miss the "stick and rudder" stuff, the overall benefits of being with a major airline far outweigh these misgivings. The challenges are in different areas and I count my blessings to be where I am today.
I have friends in all areas of aviation and I respect their choices. Many are stuck in their niche due to circumstance, others by choice. At the end of the day, it is all very personal, and depends on your life choices. However, is it not better to make an informed choice rather than to rely on hearsay or common beliefs.
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It's rapidly losing it's appeal for me...........
I am changing job and location soon... LOTS more dosh, closer to home (fewer nights away ).... and part-time at home, when it suits (both sides.. )
you guys can have the BIG sky.
I'll be able to bop around lots more now, down here @ 3000'
WOOHOO... !
I am changing job and location soon... LOTS more dosh, closer to home (fewer nights away ).... and part-time at home, when it suits (both sides.. )
you guys can have the BIG sky.
I'll be able to bop around lots more now, down here @ 3000'
WOOHOO... !
Short Blunt Shock
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Having read this thread, as a mil pilot looking to make a decision on an approaching option date, I now see what some previous posters mean by 'perspective' So here's some perspective....
-Regular 14-16hr days, in slow green noisy vibrator, most avionics obsolete. Some airframes almost 40 yrs old. Sometimes 18hr days. (not uncommon in op environments).
-Management just as incompetent, self-interested, empire building. Except they can order you to do anything and you can be jailed if you refuse. Exponential increase in management / bluntie inspired bullsh1t and penny-pinching.
-Regular 3-8 week detachments to hot & sandy places, often at short notice. No allowances paid for this. Live in a tent. Get mortared / rocketed / shot at on a regular basis. Sometimes fly your mates home in coffins.
-Undergo regular check rides, sims once per month, no-notice standardisation checks where one minor-up will get you grounded. Maintain a vastly wider skill base with training hrs and budgets pared to the bone. Skill levels and ability vastly in excess of what an airline would require.
Oh yes, and all for roughly 50-60% of the salary one could expect from a major carrier (for equivalent experience / quals, when additional benefits taken into account)
Did I mention getting shot at as well?
ADVANTAGES:
-More interesting, sometimes downright awesome flying, plenty of polling. Hauling a 60-ton aircraft around at 250ft and throwing stuff out the back. Fun.
errr......thats it.
The RAF will undoubtedly be looking for ME pilot redundancies after the recent cuts announcement.
There will be no shortage of volunteers.
Especially among those who have gained licences and are gagging to join the industry that so many have been deriding in here.
Like I said, perspective..............
-Regular 14-16hr days, in slow green noisy vibrator, most avionics obsolete. Some airframes almost 40 yrs old. Sometimes 18hr days. (not uncommon in op environments).
-Management just as incompetent, self-interested, empire building. Except they can order you to do anything and you can be jailed if you refuse. Exponential increase in management / bluntie inspired bullsh1t and penny-pinching.
-Regular 3-8 week detachments to hot & sandy places, often at short notice. No allowances paid for this. Live in a tent. Get mortared / rocketed / shot at on a regular basis. Sometimes fly your mates home in coffins.
-Undergo regular check rides, sims once per month, no-notice standardisation checks where one minor
-up will get you grounded. Maintain a vastly wider skill base with training hrs and budgets pared to the bone. Skill levels and ability vastly in excess of what an airline would require.Oh yes, and all for roughly 50-60% of the salary one could expect from a major carrier (for equivalent experience / quals, when additional benefits taken into account)
Did I mention getting shot at as well?
ADVANTAGES:
-More interesting, sometimes downright awesome flying, plenty of polling. Hauling a 60-ton aircraft around at 250ft and throwing stuff out the back. Fun.
errr......thats it.
The RAF will undoubtedly be looking for ME pilot redundancies after the recent cuts announcement.
There will be no shortage of volunteers.
Especially among those who have gained licences and are gagging to join the industry that so many have been deriding in here.
Like I said, perspective..............
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16 Blades Difference is we are not in the Army or Air Force. We´re not fighting a war. This is a civilian operation carrying fare paying pax supposedly as safely as can be. I hope any fair minded passenger would read PPRune and realise that is not the case anymore. How come other airlines/ businesses manage to treat and pay their staff well? It´s not just down to high fuel prices. Airlines are declaring profits now. What happened to the profits from previous years? In BA it was squandered away by inept management . White elephants such as ethnic tail schemes and new HQ´s. Millions spent on teaching us to be nice to one another. Latest course costing millions is to tell us (the staff) how WE have to save 300 million quid. Suggestions like " well cancel this course for a start" are met with stony stares at your name badge. This is what annoys the majority of us.
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I have read with interest many threads on this website over the past few months and must say that I have found it to be unparalleled in its wealth of information. I have used it to research both 'factual' information and to seek out opinions of future peers on everything from working hours and roster patterns to medicals. This, however, is my first post.
I have been particularly intrigued by this thread, which has coerced me out of the shadows from being a casual reader to a contributor to the forum.
I don't wish to elaborate on my current situation, but to put you in the picture, I will begin flight training soon and have no reason to believe that I won't be sitting in the RHS of a twin jet in just under two years' time (world political events pending). I am about to leave a 'reasonably' well-paid job (for my age) with prospects in order to embark upon this journey to achieve a life ambition.
This thread intrigues me in that many of the comments regarding the profession 'commercial airline pilot' are negative. I don't wish to belittle anyone's work grievances and not yet having the same perspective as them, I am not well placed to comment on what those grievances are, but are there not some people out there who actually like what they do for a living?
I have been heartened by a couple of postings of pilots on here who say they love what they do for a living (and disheartened by many who say that they don't). Are these people who say they love flying new to the industry? Are they naive? I suspect that they are not. More likely is that their outlook on life enables them to appreciate what they do and to feel lucky to go to work in an industry that they are passionate about (of course everyone has their bad days).
I really don't wish to offend anyone and you may wish to shoot me down as I am not a pilot yet and so don't have a pilot's perspective but I do feel that certain threads attract more negative than positive comments, which might skew perceptions (for people reading these threads).
I for one look forward to working in an industry, which I think about day in, day out. I love aeroplanes and for me it's as simple as that. Sure, every job has its downsides and I have no doubt that there are a few in Aviation. However, it is the reasons 'why I want to do the job' that I hope will keep me in the profession and I am determined for this not to be outweighed by the negatives.
My general observation (although generalising is not wise) is that in all industries you have people who are happy with what they do and those who are not. There will always be people who will say how it used to be better (perhaps I will be one of those in 20 years' time), but I do believe in keeping a perspective as 16 blades explained so well. In the end, everybody is free to make their own choices in life and this will depend upon their preferences. I currently do a job because it pays reasonably well, I hope I will soon be doing a job because I really really really want to do it. If you aspire to work for a large carrier then there is no reason not to expect a decent (fair) wage.
I could continue with this all morning but perhaps I should leave it there and await the replies. I would be interested in constructive comments on this. My intention is not to offend anyone or get their back's up, just to paint the picture as I see it. I would love to hear from those who have been doing the job for a number of years and still love it, but feel free to chip in if you have been doing it for a number of years and hate it!
In the end, life is what you make of the opportunities you have.
Thanks for reading,
B727-200
I have been particularly intrigued by this thread, which has coerced me out of the shadows from being a casual reader to a contributor to the forum.
I don't wish to elaborate on my current situation, but to put you in the picture, I will begin flight training soon and have no reason to believe that I won't be sitting in the RHS of a twin jet in just under two years' time (world political events pending). I am about to leave a 'reasonably' well-paid job (for my age) with prospects in order to embark upon this journey to achieve a life ambition.
This thread intrigues me in that many of the comments regarding the profession 'commercial airline pilot' are negative. I don't wish to belittle anyone's work grievances and not yet having the same perspective as them, I am not well placed to comment on what those grievances are, but are there not some people out there who actually like what they do for a living?
I have been heartened by a couple of postings of pilots on here who say they love what they do for a living (and disheartened by many who say that they don't). Are these people who say they love flying new to the industry? Are they naive? I suspect that they are not. More likely is that their outlook on life enables them to appreciate what they do and to feel lucky to go to work in an industry that they are passionate about (of course everyone has their bad days).
I really don't wish to offend anyone and you may wish to shoot me down as I am not a pilot yet and so don't have a pilot's perspective but I do feel that certain threads attract more negative than positive comments, which might skew perceptions (for people reading these threads).
I for one look forward to working in an industry, which I think about day in, day out. I love aeroplanes and for me it's as simple as that. Sure, every job has its downsides and I have no doubt that there are a few in Aviation. However, it is the reasons 'why I want to do the job' that I hope will keep me in the profession and I am determined for this not to be outweighed by the negatives.
My general observation (although generalising is not wise) is that in all industries you have people who are happy with what they do and those who are not. There will always be people who will say how it used to be better (perhaps I will be one of those in 20 years' time), but I do believe in keeping a perspective as 16 blades explained so well. In the end, everybody is free to make their own choices in life and this will depend upon their preferences. I currently do a job because it pays reasonably well, I hope I will soon be doing a job because I really really really want to do it. If you aspire to work for a large carrier then there is no reason not to expect a decent (fair) wage.
I could continue with this all morning but perhaps I should leave it there and await the replies. I would be interested in constructive comments on this. My intention is not to offend anyone or get their back's up, just to paint the picture as I see it. I would love to hear from those who have been doing the job for a number of years and still love it, but feel free to chip in if you have been doing it for a number of years and hate it!
In the end, life is what you make of the opportunities you have.
Thanks for reading,
B727-200
Short Blunt Shock
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Maxy,
Thank you for clarifying some of the issues for me that you guys face. Reading your post, I could almost believe you are a Mil AT pilot - we face almost identical issues with where our funding is going (MOD pay £2000 each for fancy office chairs whilst we can't get enough spares / essential kit upgrades for the ac), daft trendy management decisions, etc. The point I was making was that we get paid considerably less for putting up with it than you do.
It seems that you guys bemoan your lot just as often as we do, and usually about the same kind of things. Reading this thread and others here have really opened my eyes - the airlines are perceived by the RAF, in general, to be a Nirvana, the land of milk and honey where the aircraft all work, your programme is planned months in advance and never changes, you are payed twice as much money for half the work, the downroute allowances are worth a small fortune and you don't have to jump through a ridiculous succession of hoops and a vast reef of paperwork to get them. Where we may one day end up if only our option / exit dates match recruiting cycles. I'm grateful for the perspective you gents have provided here. Perhaps if I do eventually choose a civ career, my expectations will not now outstrip the reality - often, I believe, part of the problem, particularly for guys crossing over from the Mil.
I think that we pilots are, by nature, demanding and fussy, and as such most of us will find something to complain about after we've been in a job long enough, regardless of what the job is.
I don't think commercial pressures / competition are to blame IMHO - the RAF AT fleet has seen a parallel increase in workload / decrease in resources / erosion of perks and T&C along with the airlines over the last 10-20 years. Maybe it's just a reflection on the way society is evolving in general, as everyone seems to have similar complaints these days.
When I joined the RAF, I found myself listening to countless bar war stories from the knackered old sh1ts that painted a glorious picture of the good old days, and how crap it was now in comparison. I am sure I will be doing exactly the same by the time I leave (If I stay beyond my option) - it would seem hindsight is ALWAYS rose-tinted!
Thank you for clarifying some of the issues for me that you guys face. Reading your post, I could almost believe you are a Mil AT pilot - we face almost identical issues with where our funding is going (MOD pay £2000 each for fancy office chairs whilst we can't get enough spares / essential kit upgrades for the ac), daft trendy management decisions, etc. The point I was making was that we get paid considerably less for putting up with it than you do.
It seems that you guys bemoan your lot just as often as we do, and usually about the same kind of things. Reading this thread and others here have really opened my eyes - the airlines are perceived by the RAF, in general, to be a Nirvana, the land of milk and honey where the aircraft all work, your programme is planned months in advance and never changes, you are payed twice as much money for half the work, the downroute allowances are worth a small fortune and you don't have to jump through a ridiculous succession of hoops and a vast reef of paperwork to get them. Where we may one day end up if only our option / exit dates match recruiting cycles. I'm grateful for the perspective you gents have provided here. Perhaps if I do eventually choose a civ career, my expectations will not now outstrip the reality - often, I believe, part of the problem, particularly for guys crossing over from the Mil.
I think that we pilots are, by nature, demanding and fussy, and as such most of us will find something to complain about after we've been in a job long enough, regardless of what the job is.
I don't think commercial pressures / competition are to blame IMHO - the RAF AT fleet has seen a parallel increase in workload / decrease in resources / erosion of perks and T&C along with the airlines over the last 10-20 years. Maybe it's just a reflection on the way society is evolving in general, as everyone seems to have similar complaints these days.
When I joined the RAF, I found myself listening to countless bar war stories from the knackered old sh1ts that painted a glorious picture of the good old days, and how crap it was now in comparison. I am sure I will be doing exactly the same by the time I leave (If I stay beyond my option) - it would seem hindsight is ALWAYS rose-tinted!
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I dreamt of being a pilot when I was 6.
I've been lucky enough to join a major airline in my early 20s.
The efforts I've put in achieving my goals (in money, years of study and kicks in the a.. received) are minimal compared with the rewards this job still gives me, after more than 20 years.
Luckily I still see young boys and girls looking forward to strap in a cramped cockpit seat, with no hint of what the salary will be when and if they will succeed in standing all the pains we all know, both civilian and military flyiers.
"Because I fly, I envy no man on earth."
I've been lucky enough to join a major airline in my early 20s.
The efforts I've put in achieving my goals (in money, years of study and kicks in the a.. received) are minimal compared with the rewards this job still gives me, after more than 20 years.
Luckily I still see young boys and girls looking forward to strap in a cramped cockpit seat, with no hint of what the salary will be when and if they will succeed in standing all the pains we all know, both civilian and military flyiers.
"Because I fly, I envy no man on earth."
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Flying is what I've always wanted to do. It's like a calling that you can't resist. You can fight it but eventually it bites back, again and again, every time harder than the previous. They pay for that? - Excellent! Until now life never has given me the opportunity to get into this profession. Now, I have that opportunity at hand, but I'm afraid it came too late. I'm on my late 30's, and from what I’ve read here, there are no vacancies for an inexperienced 40 year old pilot on this market. I guess that’s what a woman, about the same age, thinks when she’s having second thoughts about having a baby because she’s too old, even though she knows that probably it’s her last chance. Well, I will get my PPL anyway, it’s not the same thing, but at least it gets me closer to the birds I envy.
GD&L
GD&L
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G.D & L'd.
I've been commercial flying for 30 years. It started with a tremendous diversity of G/A jobs, from aerobatic airshows, crop spraying, air-taxiing & biz jets, before airline opportunities became available. When thet did, the attraction was obvious. After 25 years of that gravy train I've discovered the closeness to the birds you envy. It ain't at 37000'. It's at more humble heights beneath a paraglider. I've soarded with eagles and drifted with buzzards. I've climbed upto cloud base and played amongst the thermals. I've travelled at the breakneck speed of 20kts to a place I knew not where, until the lift denied me further flight. To look down, from 10.000', sitting in your harness, and see nothing beneath you until terra firma, is a true flier's dream. It was my choice to go there, my choice to take off and my effort to stay aloft. The thrill is immeasurable. I commend it to anyone who claims to be a dream flyer.
I've been commercial flying for 30 years. It started with a tremendous diversity of G/A jobs, from aerobatic airshows, crop spraying, air-taxiing & biz jets, before airline opportunities became available. When thet did, the attraction was obvious. After 25 years of that gravy train I've discovered the closeness to the birds you envy. It ain't at 37000'. It's at more humble heights beneath a paraglider. I've soarded with eagles and drifted with buzzards. I've climbed upto cloud base and played amongst the thermals. I've travelled at the breakneck speed of 20kts to a place I knew not where, until the lift denied me further flight. To look down, from 10.000', sitting in your harness, and see nothing beneath you until terra firma, is a true flier's dream. It was my choice to go there, my choice to take off and my effort to stay aloft. The thrill is immeasurable. I commend it to anyone who claims to be a dream flyer.
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I think Danny posts the ultimate question with this one..
I've been in the industry for 10+ years now, boyhood dream and all that.. The first time you took to the skies in your first big jet was a sensation of accomplishment. That said, it doesn't last for very long and quite soon you'll find yourself in a routine that I suppose comes with any monotunous profession. Then came that dredded day that threw everthing upside down. Airline management using it as an excuse to shaft their staff bigtime..
I've been ever since I've got on the heavyjets with well respected and renouned carriers. That is worth nothing these days. Everything is measured by what sleasy and that top-crook head of an irish outfit I woudn't call an airline but rather .
I hate being compared to such companies by beancounters with their heads so far up their they coldn't tell it from a hole in the ground.
Fortunately I'm not too old to change my carreer-path and for the first time ever I'm accually considering doing so.
My seat is up for grabs by some eager youngster willing to pay an airline to be entitled to work for them (not knowing he/she accually shoot him/her self in the foot)..
The industry as a whole is in absolute tatters..
I've been in the industry for 10+ years now, boyhood dream and all that.. The first time you took to the skies in your first big jet was a sensation of accomplishment. That said, it doesn't last for very long and quite soon you'll find yourself in a routine that I suppose comes with any monotunous profession. Then came that dredded day that threw everthing upside down. Airline management using it as an excuse to shaft their staff bigtime..
I've been ever since I've got on the heavyjets with well respected and renouned carriers. That is worth nothing these days. Everything is measured by what sleasy and that top-crook head of an irish outfit I woudn't call an airline but rather
.I hate being compared to such companies by beancounters with their heads so far up their
they coldn't tell it from a hole in the ground.Fortunately I'm not too old to change my carreer-path and for the first time ever I'm accually considering doing so.
My seat is up for grabs by some eager youngster willing to pay an airline to be entitled to work for them (not knowing he/she accually shoot him/her self in the foot)..
The industry as a whole is in absolute tatters..
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: uk
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Brenoch - It's funny how some on here have convinced themselves that the job is still something, when the rest of the world feels sorry those working for airlines nowadays....Those that can do (and sit back comfortably in First class or business), those that can't fly (and chauffeur the rich around)!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Once again it would seem industries like ours are to be shafted. In the early 90's the new EU directives about working conditions were published. Public transport, for one, was exempt for a few years, and compensation packages had to put in place because people such as flight crew could not enjoy the improvements imposed on behalf of ground workers. IT NEVER HAPPENED!
Now the debate about the max working week is open again. 48 hours is considered to the max reasonable anyone can be scheduled to work. In France, Holland and maybe other countries, the norm is already below 40, never mind 48.
So how come, once again our industry is not included in this debate? Thus, in UK, a 55 hour week can be rostered, and from experience it very often is. (worse in other EU states) On top of this it is scheduled in a random shift pattern, so sleep deprevation is guaranteed.
Where are the unions in all this debate? Silent, incredibly! Where is the Health & Saftey Exec in this debate? Equally silent, even more incredible!
For how much longer must industries such as ours, and there are many others, put up with seeing relative working conditions deteriorate? It is a complete joke.
Now the debate about the max working week is open again. 48 hours is considered to the max reasonable anyone can be scheduled to work. In France, Holland and maybe other countries, the norm is already below 40, never mind 48.
So how come, once again our industry is not included in this debate? Thus, in UK, a 55 hour week can be rostered, and from experience it very often is. (worse in other EU states) On top of this it is scheduled in a random shift pattern, so sleep deprevation is guaranteed.
Where are the unions in all this debate? Silent, incredibly! Where is the Health & Saftey Exec in this debate? Equally silent, even more incredible!
For how much longer must industries such as ours, and there are many others, put up with seeing relative working conditions deteriorate? It is a complete joke.