Seething
Seething
On the way to work today have just heard an interview with a British Medical Association spokesman declaring that airlines do not train their cabin crew enough for inflight medical emergencies. Knowing 3 people who have saved lives on board aircraft and also at least four others outside work I find this an insulting and unprofessional thing to say! It also seems to be a well-planned attack, coming on a bank holiday Monday when none of the unions or airlines management will be in a position to reply. I would hope that at least an apology will be forthcoming or hard facts singling out individual airlines!
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Hi Right Way Up,
Although it is indeed insulting to those who have saved lives, or individual crew members in certain airlines whose training may have been more extensive in this field; the only possible changes that could be brought by this BMA spokeman/spokeswoman's words can be further inflight medical emergency training - which is certainly a good thing for all those who may benefit from it.
Andy
Although it is indeed insulting to those who have saved lives, or individual crew members in certain airlines whose training may have been more extensive in this field; the only possible changes that could be brought by this BMA spokeman/spokeswoman's words can be further inflight medical emergency training - which is certainly a good thing for all those who may benefit from it.
Andy
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Simmer down.......we are trained in First Aid only......same as thousands of Joe Public are out there. If we work for a forward thinking organisation we might be trained in the use of De Fibs also. But we are not miracle workers and we do the best we can in a difficult environment.......at an altitude around 8000ft, with primitive equipment, surrounded by an audience and critics on the ground it seems.
keep up the good work angels in the sky!!!!!
keep up the good work angels in the sky!!!!!
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The interview I saw this morning on BBC News 24 stated that it was not so much that crew are not trained in such first aid matters but that there is no regulation of what training is given and where. I.e smaller operators may or may not be giving less intensive training to their crew and who says it is actually the latest in Immediate Care procedures?
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The regulation in the system is from the CAA and it is via the company opps manual. Why the BMA has gone down this road I can't understand.
I suspect that the report has been mis-reported or the aviation system mis-understood and the media loves a good aviation shock-horror story on a bank hoilday , it frightens the passengers and sells newspapers !.
I suspect that the report has been mis-reported or the aviation system mis-understood and the media loves a good aviation shock-horror story on a bank hoilday , it frightens the passengers and sells newspapers !.
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I couldnt believe it when i saw the news this morning.As cabin crew every year I dread my recurrents because of first aid as its not one of my strong points.However I do feel confident that I could perform life saving duties such as cpr etc due to the training I have received from various airlines over the years of which a large percentage of the general public couldnt.Airlines have different medicines in their first aid kits including injections of which we are not permitted or trained to use.If we were then I think we would like to be payed more or may aswell become a nurse, doctor or paramedic! These type of medicines are for the use of certified medics of which are often hard to find onboard because of fear of being sued.I have not experienced a life threatening emergency but know of crew who have saved lives due to their training.I may be biased but I think crew do a brilliant job for the crap wages they receive!
The interview I saw this morning on BBC News 24 stated that it was not so much that crew are not trained in such first aid matters but that there is no regulation of what training is given and where.
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I dont see why cabin crew should be expected to double-up as medics if they dont want to. I work all day in my job, and if someone collapses I expect one of the volunteer first aid trained work colleagues will be summoned or the situation might need a doctor or ambulance - but not me, because I dont choose to. If a medic is required on board I think a professional one should be employed for the job, not because I'm grumbling about or dont have faith in cc, but they've got their own job to be getting on with. I know its in an isolated location most of the time, but if people can be paid to sit anonymously with the expectation that they might have to shoot someone en-route, well then why not have someone else sitting just as anonymously in the expectation that he might have to save somebody or might the latter be an avoidable expense, as opposed to the former ??? ???
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What sort of level do they want them to get up to.
And also what sort of incidents are they expected to deal with?
Now all the sharp items have been removed
The only wounds they should have to sort out are.
Paper cuts
Fire axe wounds
Pen puncher wounds
cut finger when the bloody cutlery snaps on you and you stab yourself.
All the other stuff is first air and unless you have some serious hardware on board and lots of reacurring training. There is not alot you can do apart from a divert very quickly. Apart from give them an asprin but thats illeagal so the biggest thing for helping the punters out with strokes heart attacks etc is waft them with a safety card after puting them in the recovery position if there is enough room. Even then you will have to put them into a seat for landing.
I hope to god we don't have to start employing combat medics like offshore had to. Mind you most a ugly mean looking buggas so it might also help solve cabin problems as well.
MJ
And also what sort of incidents are they expected to deal with?
Now all the sharp items have been removed
The only wounds they should have to sort out are.
Paper cuts
Fire axe wounds
Pen puncher wounds
cut finger when the bloody cutlery snaps on you and you stab yourself.
All the other stuff is first air and unless you have some serious hardware on board and lots of reacurring training. There is not alot you can do apart from a divert very quickly. Apart from give them an asprin but thats illeagal so the biggest thing for helping the punters out with strokes heart attacks etc is waft them with a safety card after puting them in the recovery position if there is enough room. Even then you will have to put them into a seat for landing.
I hope to god we don't have to start employing combat medics like offshore had to. Mind you most a ugly mean looking buggas so it might also help solve cabin problems as well.
MJ
This non-story has made it onto the BBC 10 pm news now, and following a clip at "Virgin Atlantic, whose crews are all well trained for such events" (like says who, the journalist ? Since when are they qualified to comment on medical training ?) they then had to drag DVT into it and do an interview with the mother of someone who died after a Virgin long-haul, something which had nothing to do with medical preparedness on board.
Poor old Virgin, cooperate with the BBC and then they do that to you.
Poor old Virgin, cooperate with the BBC and then they do that to you.
"Simmer down.......we are trained in First Aid only"
I think you put yourself down. Cabin crew are trained in a multitude of skills. What will be next, the firemen union suggesting you take a 3 week course in firefighting. The cabin crew SEP will take about a month to complete.
Slightly aside from this issue my doc advised my wife that he could not write a fit to fly certificate when she was pregnant because the BMA have told him not to due to risk of liability. Maybe this issue is to do with doctors being asked to treat sick passengers on board aircraft and the perceived liability problems with doing so.
I think you put yourself down. Cabin crew are trained in a multitude of skills. What will be next, the firemen union suggesting you take a 3 week course in firefighting. The cabin crew SEP will take about a month to complete.
Slightly aside from this issue my doc advised my wife that he could not write a fit to fly certificate when she was pregnant because the BMA have told him not to due to risk of liability. Maybe this issue is to do with doctors being asked to treat sick passengers on board aircraft and the perceived liability problems with doing so.
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Medical training
Forget the levels of competence. Has the airline taken out insurance on the crew to pay for the times it doesn't always go as expected? Doctors in the air think twice about offering their services because of the malpractice issue. Who will support the crew if they jump in to help and, for a variety of medical reasons, are unable to offer the complete care needed? With everyone and his first cousin ready to sue for any adversity, even self-induced, it woud be a foolhardy crew member to offer medical intervention, regardless of his/her training.
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On major UK airlines, both the crew and any medic who steps in to help are insured against any claims from the patient.
The BMA were complaining that there is no internationally, or even European, recognised standard for, or assessment of, the medical care that is offered on airlines, and (I think) that the minimum standards required are not sufficient. They were not saying that all (or even most) airlines do not do enough, just that there is no way of knowing what standard of care you can expect.
It's a reasonable point - but trust the BBC to drag DVT into it. I thought the BMA chap explained very clearly that DVT was not fully understood, and that it could affect people whatever the reason that they were sat still - train, bus or car jouneys, or sitting at a desk.
The BMA were complaining that there is no internationally, or even European, recognised standard for, or assessment of, the medical care that is offered on airlines, and (I think) that the minimum standards required are not sufficient. They were not saying that all (or even most) airlines do not do enough, just that there is no way of knowing what standard of care you can expect.
It's a reasonable point - but trust the BBC to drag DVT into it. I thought the BMA chap explained very clearly that DVT was not fully understood, and that it could affect people whatever the reason that they were sat still - train, bus or car jouneys, or sitting at a desk.
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In the USA we have Good Samaritan laws that provide immunity from prosecution for anyone thats acts to save another's life. I have never heard of a medical professional not stepping forward to help. For an EMT certification here it is at least a 6 month course. I hardly think that a company is going to pick up the cost of that training. Although remember that the first F/As were registered nurses. Bring back the "Stews!".
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birdbrain
"if someone collapses I expect one of the volunteer first aid trained work colleagues will be summoned or the situation might need a doctor or ambulance - but not me, because I dont choose to."
What if you personally had cardiac arrest and your heart stopped with the possibility of being restarted if your nearest colleague knew and used first aid? This, as opposed to wandering off to look for somebody that knew CPR while you died because they "don't choose to" know about it?
"If a medic is required on board I think a professional one should be employed for the job"
There is very rarely a situation where a medic IS required on board. The situation I described above may be rare but is no less serious.
Not because you "....dont have faith in cc, but they've got their own job to be getting on with"? The primary function of cabin crew is for the health and safety of everyone on board. You may argue that this only includes flight-related hazards, but being in mid-air nowhere near a hospital does seem to constitute a hazard created by flight to me!
"why not have someone else sitting just as anonymously in the expectation that he might have to save somebody "
How do you compare the different wide-scale effects of
- A terrorist attack on an airliner
- One passenger being attacked by a life-threatening medical emergency whilst in flight
and further, what are the relative probabilities that all passengers and crew could be killed in each situation? Therefore, from your judgement, which scenario would you consider to be more serious?
The reason I'm biting here is because last week an elderly man fell outside a store locally severely hurting himself, requiring help; and the staff refused to call an ambulance for him as the incident didn't take place inside. How on earth that excuses them from doing the decent thing is beyond me.
Everyone should have a reasonable level of proficiency in First Aid at least, and be prepared to use it. It is respect for others around you, something that I feel is irreplacable.
Thanks
Andy
(promise I don't normally rant like this!)
"if someone collapses I expect one of the volunteer first aid trained work colleagues will be summoned or the situation might need a doctor or ambulance - but not me, because I dont choose to."
What if you personally had cardiac arrest and your heart stopped with the possibility of being restarted if your nearest colleague knew and used first aid? This, as opposed to wandering off to look for somebody that knew CPR while you died because they "don't choose to" know about it?
"If a medic is required on board I think a professional one should be employed for the job"
There is very rarely a situation where a medic IS required on board. The situation I described above may be rare but is no less serious.
Not because you "....dont have faith in cc, but they've got their own job to be getting on with"? The primary function of cabin crew is for the health and safety of everyone on board. You may argue that this only includes flight-related hazards, but being in mid-air nowhere near a hospital does seem to constitute a hazard created by flight to me!
"why not have someone else sitting just as anonymously in the expectation that he might have to save somebody "
How do you compare the different wide-scale effects of
- A terrorist attack on an airliner
- One passenger being attacked by a life-threatening medical emergency whilst in flight
and further, what are the relative probabilities that all passengers and crew could be killed in each situation? Therefore, from your judgement, which scenario would you consider to be more serious?
The reason I'm biting here is because last week an elderly man fell outside a store locally severely hurting himself, requiring help; and the staff refused to call an ambulance for him as the incident didn't take place inside. How on earth that excuses them from doing the decent thing is beyond me.
Everyone should have a reasonable level of proficiency in First Aid at least, and be prepared to use it. It is respect for others around you, something that I feel is irreplacable.
Thanks
Andy
(promise I don't normally rant like this!)
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The reason I'm biting here is because last week an elderly man fell outside a store locally severely hurting himself, requiring help; and the staff refused to call an ambulance for him as the incident didn't take place inside
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They already did. I couldn't believe it.
Creating a standardised system for monitoring life-saving and first aid training can only have positive effects. Cabin crew do a stunning job as it is but again I feel it's fair to support this focus on safety as it may improve chances for saving someone's life on the street just as in flight.
Andy
Creating a standardised system for monitoring life-saving and first aid training can only have positive effects. Cabin crew do a stunning job as it is but again I feel it's fair to support this focus on safety as it may improve chances for saving someone's life on the street just as in flight.
Andy
