SQ getting SAS Crew for the 744F . True??
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SQ getting SAS Crew for the 744F . True??
Straight from the horses mouth. Or is it the wrong end of the horse.??
QUOTE
SQ is apparently getting 100 SAS crew for their 744 Freighter Fleet...their old well worn theory of an Airline having crewing problems just so that they can fill their ranks has come true again !
UNQUOTE
QUOTE
SQ is apparently getting 100 SAS crew for their 744 Freighter Fleet...their old well worn theory of an Airline having crewing problems just so that they can fill their ranks has come true again !
UNQUOTE
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Of course the real issue is that when SAS become bankrupt, who is going to rescue our poor souls stranded out in Asia, with just Len to bleat too? We are all aware how corrupt SIA is, and how they lie and squeal when anybody has contrary thoughts to what is installed in the Singaporean minds.
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SAS pilots at SIA Cargo - sounds great..!
Interesting comments regarding SAS and SIA, displaying lack of knowledge, or shall we say "wishful thinking".
First on bankruptcy: SAS is one of the most "cash-rich" airlines in Europe (as is SIA in SE Asia). Although SAS have been loosing money for a few years, a new and leaner organization is in place, with more effective agreement with the various unions.
SAS will prove to be a formidable and agressive competitor over the next 3 - 5 years, and the low-cost carriers better not be penni-less when they go against the cash cows..! So let the future determine who goes bankrupt..!
As to the comment regarding quality, I believe that SIA and SAS safely can be labelled "high quality airlines", both when it comes to equipment, maintenance, operations and the quality of pilots.
So this arrangement of having the SAS surplus pilots fly for some years at SIA and then return home sounds to be an excellent arrangement for all parties, be it SAS, SIA Cargo, the Scandinavian Pilot Unions and ALPA-S.
First on bankruptcy: SAS is one of the most "cash-rich" airlines in Europe (as is SIA in SE Asia). Although SAS have been loosing money for a few years, a new and leaner organization is in place, with more effective agreement with the various unions.
SAS will prove to be a formidable and agressive competitor over the next 3 - 5 years, and the low-cost carriers better not be penni-less when they go against the cash cows..! So let the future determine who goes bankrupt..!
As to the comment regarding quality, I believe that SIA and SAS safely can be labelled "high quality airlines", both when it comes to equipment, maintenance, operations and the quality of pilots.
So this arrangement of having the SAS surplus pilots fly for some years at SIA and then return home sounds to be an excellent arrangement for all parties, be it SAS, SIA Cargo, the Scandinavian Pilot Unions and ALPA-S.
Last edited by Factseeker; 10th Apr 2004 at 12:29.
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hi,
it does not seem that the SAS pilots are offered anything, but what is offered in the latest Flight International Magazine.
if there is consensus among the pilots in SIA on this issue, I would expect the SIA union to take contact with the SAS pilot union, which is highly organized
if there are any individuals at SIA, who has any thoughts on SAS pilots coming at this time - please state them, Iam sure they will be of interest to potential SAS pilots wanting to go to SIA.
sincerely
it does not seem that the SAS pilots are offered anything, but what is offered in the latest Flight International Magazine.
if there is consensus among the pilots in SIA on this issue, I would expect the SIA union to take contact with the SAS pilot union, which is highly organized
if there are any individuals at SIA, who has any thoughts on SAS pilots coming at this time - please state them, Iam sure they will be of interest to potential SAS pilots wanting to go to SIA.
sincerely
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SIA & SAS - more FACTS
Scandinavian0073 has his own opinions, based on heresay.
Let me enlighten you, based on contacts close to the action:
There are no special contracts for SAS pilots or any other pilots when it comes to SIA Cargo. It is a set contract, valid for all, approved by ALPA-S (Pilot union of Singapore).
And for the SAS pilot unions, they have proven to be of no use, as they have been very effective in negotaiting deals that makes the pilots happy, but out of a job, due to high cost. Who wants that..?
But SAS pilots at SIA is a good deal, as it will provide SIA Cargo with high quality pilots for a certain numer of years, and then they go back to Scandinavia, and the SIA pilots takes over.
It is called WIN-WIN. Two quality airlines cooperating, best of both worlds. Everybody is happy.
Let me enlighten you, based on contacts close to the action:
There are no special contracts for SAS pilots or any other pilots when it comes to SIA Cargo. It is a set contract, valid for all, approved by ALPA-S (Pilot union of Singapore).
And for the SAS pilot unions, they have proven to be of no use, as they have been very effective in negotaiting deals that makes the pilots happy, but out of a job, due to high cost. Who wants that..?
But SAS pilots at SIA is a good deal, as it will provide SIA Cargo with high quality pilots for a certain numer of years, and then they go back to Scandinavia, and the SIA pilots takes over.
It is called WIN-WIN. Two quality airlines cooperating, best of both worlds. Everybody is happy.
Factseeker,
I have no problem with the quality of SAS in any respect but I feel that you know very little about SIA apart from their PR. Try doing a little digging in PPRuNe over the past 2-3 yrs and perhaps you will become a little more informed!
I have no problem with the quality of SAS in any respect but I feel that you know very little about SIA apart from their PR. Try doing a little digging in PPRuNe over the past 2-3 yrs and perhaps you will become a little more informed!
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Interesting to be a fly on the cockpit wall, when typical SIA Capt Kok flies with new FO Haraldsssson. Capt K a highly opinionated guy regarding his own self esteem verses FO H who is used to an open and co-operative flying environment.
Result?... Capt K loses face cos in reality he is a gutless vacant guy with strong anti expat values (called Singaporean values), continues for the next 10 hours of flight without saying a thing except a few grunts and slobbering into his maggi mee. F/O'sssson becomes frustrated, what the fcuk is this guys problem, and tries to communicate. Result, Capt K insists "sssson has insulted Singapore, his family and his superior. Arse licking would go down a treat. F/O H not happy, but realizes he has to carry on for the next 17 days together.
On return to stinksville, Capt K rings his mates up, to brag about how he put this young cocky SAS guy in his place,and recommends that his Capt mates do the same. F/O Haraldsssson tells his mates that this is not what he read when he looked on PPRUNE.
Well Laddie, this is reality in SIA, and seeing & living it is believing. Been there, done that. Err, no thanks.
Result?... Capt K loses face cos in reality he is a gutless vacant guy with strong anti expat values (called Singaporean values), continues for the next 10 hours of flight without saying a thing except a few grunts and slobbering into his maggi mee. F/O'sssson becomes frustrated, what the fcuk is this guys problem, and tries to communicate. Result, Capt K insists "sssson has insulted Singapore, his family and his superior. Arse licking would go down a treat. F/O H not happy, but realizes he has to carry on for the next 17 days together.
On return to stinksville, Capt K rings his mates up, to brag about how he put this young cocky SAS guy in his place,and recommends that his Capt mates do the same. F/O Haraldsssson tells his mates that this is not what he read when he looked on PPRUNE.
Well Laddie, this is reality in SIA, and seeing & living it is believing. Been there, done that. Err, no thanks.
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SIA quality
Hello BusyB,
Maybe I have not followed the rumours. But I closely follow the industry and individual airlines, such as: Training practices, operational practices, CRM programmes, involvement in IATA etc.
And in my world SIA shines.
But I do not work for them, and I am sure that the Singaporeans are demanding to work for, and do not waste their money. Which is probably why SIA is still thriving while the "big salary spenders" fall by the wayside, one by one.
Maybe I have not followed the rumours. But I closely follow the industry and individual airlines, such as: Training practices, operational practices, CRM programmes, involvement in IATA etc.
And in my world SIA shines.
But I do not work for them, and I am sure that the Singaporeans are demanding to work for, and do not waste their money. Which is probably why SIA is still thriving while the "big salary spenders" fall by the wayside, one by one.
FactSeeker,
You certainly seem to have followed the "Rumours" of operational practices, maintenance and CRM. Close friends working there have advised me of all these as opposed to what SIA would have you believe!
You certainly seem to have followed the "Rumours" of operational practices, maintenance and CRM. Close friends working there have advised me of all these as opposed to what SIA would have you believe!
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Just q quick question. Didn't ALPAS agree to let the company spin off the cargo operation and in effect wash their hands of the whole thing? It seems to me there is a little buyer's remorse going on here.
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought ALPAS represented the pilots at SIA. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought ALPAS represented the pilots at SIA. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Factseeker
What an inappropriate name you have.
SIA is NOT Cash rich anymore as they wasted their $2 Billion they had on Virgin and Air NZ and Ansett. They had to go to the Markets a years or so ago to get $1 Billion due to the late CEO's disastrous policies.
The only people who will be happy with the " Viking Hordes" joining SIA will be the SQ Generals who will use this to drive down T & C's even further thanks to this invasion.
I have no quarrel with anyone joining SIA who has resigned his job and taking his chances with SQ but the SAS deal is totally different.
F/O's joining can expect 4 years with no sectors!! SQ is a Lazy Captains Airline. The Local F/O's love doing all the paperwork and walkaround checks etc etc. I can see some highly hacked off F/O's in due course but I presume as you have been B744 Rated you have no choice but to stay the 4 Years.
SAS is a highly Unionised Airline so those who join SQ will be in for real shock.
It is not WIN WIN for the Pilots at SQ!!
By no stretch of the imagination can SQ Pilots be called overpaid bearing in mind we all do 850++ hours pa plus a lot of positioning which all Cargo joiners will do in Economy half way around the world.
Phil Squares
You are joking I assume???
Alpha-S has no real say in anything due to the Draconian Labour laws in Singapore.
Now that the Armchair Generlas have got the bit between their teeth they are going for the jugular.
LKY has entered the fray by deporting Capt Goh thus doing a 49er with a single stroke.
What an inappropriate name you have.
SIA is NOT Cash rich anymore as they wasted their $2 Billion they had on Virgin and Air NZ and Ansett. They had to go to the Markets a years or so ago to get $1 Billion due to the late CEO's disastrous policies.
The only people who will be happy with the " Viking Hordes" joining SIA will be the SQ Generals who will use this to drive down T & C's even further thanks to this invasion.
I have no quarrel with anyone joining SIA who has resigned his job and taking his chances with SQ but the SAS deal is totally different.
F/O's joining can expect 4 years with no sectors!! SQ is a Lazy Captains Airline. The Local F/O's love doing all the paperwork and walkaround checks etc etc. I can see some highly hacked off F/O's in due course but I presume as you have been B744 Rated you have no choice but to stay the 4 Years.
SAS is a highly Unionised Airline so those who join SQ will be in for real shock.
It is not WIN WIN for the Pilots at SQ!!
By no stretch of the imagination can SQ Pilots be called overpaid bearing in mind we all do 850++ hours pa plus a lot of positioning which all Cargo joiners will do in Economy half way around the world.
Phil Squares
You are joking I assume???
Alpha-S has no real say in anything due to the Draconian Labour laws in Singapore.
Now that the Armchair Generlas have got the bit between their teeth they are going for the jugular.
LKY has entered the fray by deporting Capt Goh thus doing a 49er with a single stroke.
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SIA, sniffers & busy bees
Well, well, I sniffed you out of your busy foxholes, didn't I..? (A SIA sniffer with 150 postings, you must have too much free time, or maybe retired..?)
Very opinionated. Seems that you are putting your "anglosaxon" noses too high in the air. Try a more humble apporach..!
Facts are found by research, not by listening to a few gripers, they are there in all airlines, especially those with a large contingent of expats, often coming from the heart of the Empire to "provide essential services".
A little quick research of vikings will tell you that their reputation as rapers and pillagers are basically wrong, and that they were merchants and "diplomats", sailing all over Europe and the Middle East as traders. Had some problems with the English, so sailed up Thames to teach them a lesson. Easy job..!
SAS pilots have already been all over the world on expat assignments. They actually built THAI, and had a large pilot contigent there up until mid nienties. SAS pilots assisted in the build up of EVA. And you find them in Oman, Emirates etc.
Scandinavians normally get along with people, through mutual respect and accepting others as being on "the same level". We do not have a "colonial history" to take care of.
SAS pilots will be fine in SIA, and SIA will appreciate their quality, easy going style and humour. And what do they get: Good airline, modern equipment. Good people in the front seats of 744Fs. Airline run by management. (Union running did not prove to effective, did it).
And a cash rich airline, still. Losses were cutt effectively at Vigin and AZ, no big problem.
Singapore nice city, clean, safe. Singaporeans are proud, corruption is actually miniscule compared to other places where SAS pilots have worked through the years.
Gentlemen, you seem to have a very negative bias. What happened to you and your friends..? Messed it up..?
Lastly: Fact is achieved by collecting data from unbiased sources. Broad and many. The opposite of facts are actually specific rumours from subjective induvidual sources.
But, as I have learned here, it is great entertainment..! So keep it up..!
Very opinionated. Seems that you are putting your "anglosaxon" noses too high in the air. Try a more humble apporach..!
Facts are found by research, not by listening to a few gripers, they are there in all airlines, especially those with a large contingent of expats, often coming from the heart of the Empire to "provide essential services".
A little quick research of vikings will tell you that their reputation as rapers and pillagers are basically wrong, and that they were merchants and "diplomats", sailing all over Europe and the Middle East as traders. Had some problems with the English, so sailed up Thames to teach them a lesson. Easy job..!
SAS pilots have already been all over the world on expat assignments. They actually built THAI, and had a large pilot contigent there up until mid nienties. SAS pilots assisted in the build up of EVA. And you find them in Oman, Emirates etc.
Scandinavians normally get along with people, through mutual respect and accepting others as being on "the same level". We do not have a "colonial history" to take care of.
SAS pilots will be fine in SIA, and SIA will appreciate their quality, easy going style and humour. And what do they get: Good airline, modern equipment. Good people in the front seats of 744Fs. Airline run by management. (Union running did not prove to effective, did it).
And a cash rich airline, still. Losses were cutt effectively at Vigin and AZ, no big problem.
Singapore nice city, clean, safe. Singaporeans are proud, corruption is actually miniscule compared to other places where SAS pilots have worked through the years.
Gentlemen, you seem to have a very negative bias. What happened to you and your friends..? Messed it up..?
Lastly: Fact is achieved by collecting data from unbiased sources. Broad and many. The opposite of facts are actually specific rumours from subjective induvidual sources.
But, as I have learned here, it is great entertainment..! So keep it up..!
Last edited by Factseeker; 11th Apr 2004 at 13:00.
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Facktseeker,
These are just general comments, not aimed at any specific region or company.
No offence intended but be careful of naivety. Scandinavia is a world of it's own as regards the almost non-existent level of corruption, independence of the judiciary, rights of the individual etc. The worth of a written contract, which we take for granted up north might not have the same value abroad. This is, I suspect, the message that some contributors to this forum are trying to get across to those moving to the expat world. Pause for a second and listen to what's being said, then make your own opinion.
As regards working in a different cultural environment, it can be surprisingly difficult to adapt, even if one tries. The openness that one is used to might be non-existent, and it might be difficult to keep this in mind at times. And besides, it is not necessarily a question of you accepting others as being on the same level, it could be that you are not accepted to their level. Your contention could be interpreted as naivety, against which I cautioned.
Cheers,
Cosmo
These are just general comments, not aimed at any specific region or company.
No offence intended but be careful of naivety. Scandinavia is a world of it's own as regards the almost non-existent level of corruption, independence of the judiciary, rights of the individual etc. The worth of a written contract, which we take for granted up north might not have the same value abroad. This is, I suspect, the message that some contributors to this forum are trying to get across to those moving to the expat world. Pause for a second and listen to what's being said, then make your own opinion.
As regards working in a different cultural environment, it can be surprisingly difficult to adapt, even if one tries. The openness that one is used to might be non-existent, and it might be difficult to keep this in mind at times. And besides, it is not necessarily a question of you accepting others as being on the same level, it could be that you are not accepted to their level. Your contention could be interpreted as naivety, against which I cautioned.
Cheers,
Cosmo