GILL OUT OF ADMINISTRATION
Guest
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HST, you don't know a thing about it. I suggest you keep quiet until you know what you're talking about.
Gill has no debts, and has had none since the creditors' meeting in February.
Since Gill is the first scheduled airline in this country ever to come out of Administration, it speaks volumes for the way the business has been turned round in the past year.
Previous creditors could, had they wished, have voted against writing off their debts. Sure, it wouldn't have done them much good, but the fact that they voted to forego those rights can only be based on their being convinced that the best way forward for the airline was to contine to trade. Had the airline not been seen as viable, it would have been wound up. That would have resulted in massive redundancies, not only within the airline, but also among other companies who rely on Gill.
Perhaps you would have preferred that option? If you have some personal grudge against Gill's previous owners or management, I suggest you state it. But since the first act of the current MD on arriving at Gill was to place it into Administration as its only hope of survival, rapidly followed by a great deal of restructuring from bottom to top, any grudge against previous management would be like hating modern-day Germany for what Hitler did.
So grow up, and join in with those who are glad that one of the few independent regional airlines in the country has survived some very difficult times, that people's jobs and livelihoods have been saved and that Gill will continue to contribute a good route structure and service for the travelling public, an excellent source of first-time jobs and training for new pilots, and continue to further British aviation.
Or, if you'd prefer to sulk in a corner, please feel free to do so.
[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 27 April 2001).]
Gill has no debts, and has had none since the creditors' meeting in February.
Since Gill is the first scheduled airline in this country ever to come out of Administration, it speaks volumes for the way the business has been turned round in the past year.
Previous creditors could, had they wished, have voted against writing off their debts. Sure, it wouldn't have done them much good, but the fact that they voted to forego those rights can only be based on their being convinced that the best way forward for the airline was to contine to trade. Had the airline not been seen as viable, it would have been wound up. That would have resulted in massive redundancies, not only within the airline, but also among other companies who rely on Gill.
Perhaps you would have preferred that option? If you have some personal grudge against Gill's previous owners or management, I suggest you state it. But since the first act of the current MD on arriving at Gill was to place it into Administration as its only hope of survival, rapidly followed by a great deal of restructuring from bottom to top, any grudge against previous management would be like hating modern-day Germany for what Hitler did.
So grow up, and join in with those who are glad that one of the few independent regional airlines in the country has survived some very difficult times, that people's jobs and livelihoods have been saved and that Gill will continue to contribute a good route structure and service for the travelling public, an excellent source of first-time jobs and training for new pilots, and continue to further British aviation.
Or, if you'd prefer to sulk in a corner, please feel free to do so.
[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 27 April 2001).]
Guest
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Congratulations Gill.
I must say though Hugmonster, that your remark about Gill not owing anyone any money shows your usual insensitivity. May I suggest you would feel a little differently if you were one of the Companies forced to write off millions of pounds sterling of debt in order to help Gill stagger back into existence. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted no-one has lost their jobs, but your usual prating is both insensitive and inaccurate.
It would be quite nice to hear a heartfelt "thankyou" from you or maybe some other Gill employees to the many Companies who have had to write off large sums of money to secure your jobs. In the end (and you're not alone as an inefficient, badly run, lossmaking Company) is it really in anyone's interest to support the sickies rather than foster what is supposedly an open skies, level playing field (to mix the odd metaphor).
And before you mention it, no, I don't agree with the Chapter 11 rules across the pond either. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, you shouldn't be there.
So, whether you like my views, or put me in the category of being a 'knocker' maybe ill advised remarks like "Gill has no debts" are best left out of this forum. The reason that Gill has no debts is nothing to do with the economic performance of Gill.
A bankrupt has no debts, but that doesn't mean he should be lauded for his performance.
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Arf, arf, arf!!
I must say though Hugmonster, that your remark about Gill not owing anyone any money shows your usual insensitivity. May I suggest you would feel a little differently if you were one of the Companies forced to write off millions of pounds sterling of debt in order to help Gill stagger back into existence. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted no-one has lost their jobs, but your usual prating is both insensitive and inaccurate.
It would be quite nice to hear a heartfelt "thankyou" from you or maybe some other Gill employees to the many Companies who have had to write off large sums of money to secure your jobs. In the end (and you're not alone as an inefficient, badly run, lossmaking Company) is it really in anyone's interest to support the sickies rather than foster what is supposedly an open skies, level playing field (to mix the odd metaphor).
And before you mention it, no, I don't agree with the Chapter 11 rules across the pond either. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, you shouldn't be there.
So, whether you like my views, or put me in the category of being a 'knocker' maybe ill advised remarks like "Gill has no debts" are best left out of this forum. The reason that Gill has no debts is nothing to do with the economic performance of Gill.
A bankrupt has no debts, but that doesn't mean he should be lauded for his performance.
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Arf, arf, arf!!
Guest
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Poodle, thank you for your congratulations.
Don't get me wrong - I am extremely grateful that the former creditors of Gill saw the only option for the continued employment of hundreds of people the way we say it ourselves, and agreed to wipe off the indebtedness. Those that continue to trade with us will see a return on their faith in us.
However, your continued knocking of the company is in extremely poor taste since "bad management" is not something of which the present incumbents are guilty. In fact, exactly the opposite, given our performance over the past year. It has, perhaps, been a feature of Gill in the past (I can't comment since I have only heard stories second-hand and my presence at Gill only overlapped the previous management by a few months).
Your post is seriously in error. We are not inefficient, nor loss-making, nor badly run. Perhaps you are speaking from personal experience? I think, given the current status of your own employers' base at NCL and pulling off two routes lately, laying off cabin crew etc., you would be ill-advised to crow. Your company did everything they could to try to kill an independent airline. It is not unheard of around the industry. The company of which yours is a subsidiary don't like competition, and don't want a level playing field. And given the previous incumbent at the head of the "group" leader, I think bad management is not an accusation you can use with much justification. People who live in glass houses shouldn't take showers...
[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 29 April 2001).]
Don't get me wrong - I am extremely grateful that the former creditors of Gill saw the only option for the continued employment of hundreds of people the way we say it ourselves, and agreed to wipe off the indebtedness. Those that continue to trade with us will see a return on their faith in us.
However, your continued knocking of the company is in extremely poor taste since "bad management" is not something of which the present incumbents are guilty. In fact, exactly the opposite, given our performance over the past year. It has, perhaps, been a feature of Gill in the past (I can't comment since I have only heard stories second-hand and my presence at Gill only overlapped the previous management by a few months).
Your post is seriously in error. We are not inefficient, nor loss-making, nor badly run. Perhaps you are speaking from personal experience? I think, given the current status of your own employers' base at NCL and pulling off two routes lately, laying off cabin crew etc., you would be ill-advised to crow. Your company did everything they could to try to kill an independent airline. It is not unheard of around the industry. The company of which yours is a subsidiary don't like competition, and don't want a level playing field. And given the previous incumbent at the head of the "group" leader, I think bad management is not an accusation you can use with much justification. People who live in glass houses shouldn't take showers...
[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 29 April 2001).]
Guest
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Pleased to hear about the exit from administration.
Is it just a total coincidence that Brymon have pulled off Newcastle-Belfast at the same time as the Office of Fair Trading is investigating a complaint by Gill about the proposed takeover of British Regional by Brymon's parent company? I appreciate Brymon has operational difficulties at the moment but it makes you wonder whether there's something more than meets the eye to its withdrawal from Belfast. I'd be interested to know whether Gill has withdrawn or modified its objection to the OFT about the BA/BRAL deal.
Is it just a total coincidence that Brymon have pulled off Newcastle-Belfast at the same time as the Office of Fair Trading is investigating a complaint by Gill about the proposed takeover of British Regional by Brymon's parent company? I appreciate Brymon has operational difficulties at the moment but it makes you wonder whether there's something more than meets the eye to its withdrawal from Belfast. I'd be interested to know whether Gill has withdrawn or modified its objection to the OFT about the BA/BRAL deal.
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Sorry to have to break the bad new fightercommand but hangar has been sold to Anglo Normandy Engineering of GCI fame.
Cut & paste the following link in Netscape or Explored address location for more details.
http://icnewcastle.ic24.com/0500busi...32&method=full
Looks like the big restructuring has started. Not part of the core business so Engineering get the Big heave ho. Hopefully more focus on the main activity of flying bums on seats....
Looks like the party will have to be held in the Aviaiton Club as per normal unless Anglo want to subcontract space.
Cut & paste the following link in Netscape or Explored address location for more details.
http://icnewcastle.ic24.com/0500busi...32&method=full
Looks like the big restructuring has started. Not part of the core business so Engineering get the Big heave ho. Hopefully more focus on the main activity of flying bums on seats....
Looks like the party will have to be held in the Aviaiton Club as per normal unless Anglo want to subcontract space.
Guest
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So wht is the great plan which will enable Gill to be successful where it has formerly failed to impress. Let's not get all emotive Hugmonster, or combative Poodle, but in simple businesslike terms, tell us what has changed?
What new routes are there?
New fare structures?
New customers targetted?
New equipment?
What areas for future expansion are there which were somehow overlooked before?
Or are we talking the usual regional line of cost-cutting and restructuring the debt patterns?
Like to wish you all the best, particularly those of you who have stuck with Gill over the years, but lets get realistic - if it was that simple, you'd never have gone bust in the first place! The two postees above DO have a point in inferring the only reason you are extant is that you have reneged on several huge debts.............
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Greed is good, Greed WORKS !
What new routes are there?
New fare structures?
New customers targetted?
New equipment?
What areas for future expansion are there which were somehow overlooked before?
Or are we talking the usual regional line of cost-cutting and restructuring the debt patterns?
Like to wish you all the best, particularly those of you who have stuck with Gill over the years, but lets get realistic - if it was that simple, you'd never have gone bust in the first place! The two postees above DO have a point in inferring the only reason you are extant is that you have reneged on several huge debts.............
------------------
Greed is good, Greed WORKS !
Guest
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Ballsout,
Thanks for the update. Very generous of Anglo, seeing that they were one of the mob that got their fingers burned.
When it comes down to business, don't you think a maintenance slot for a valued customer will come well before a bash for a bad debtor.
Whatever & wherever, I think that MN should treat those who stuck it out & made it work to a slap up do....!!! This yet again goes to prove that it's the troops that make the business work & they should never forget that.
SW
Thanks for the update. Very generous of Anglo, seeing that they were one of the mob that got their fingers burned.
When it comes down to business, don't you think a maintenance slot for a valued customer will come well before a bash for a bad debtor.
Whatever & wherever, I think that MN should treat those who stuck it out & made it work to a slap up do....!!! This yet again goes to prove that it's the troops that make the business work & they should never forget that.
SW
Guest
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Congrats to Gill.
I flew for them for 5 1/2 years, left in '94. A great comaraderie (sp?) from what I remember, rather like being in the trenches I imagine.
Anyway, we used to make plenty of money until we decided to concentrate on pax instead of the bread and butter work for the Post Office. (Mail bags weren't sexy enough for the investors!) Then, just like so many other small turboprop operators they get jets and go south.
Not actually blaming the jets for the state of affairs - as I heard it MH became a rather 'creative' accountant. Whatever, good luck for the future - I need somewhere to work in my retirement; can't spend ALL my life going round the world playing golf! :-)
Tin hat on.....
Underdog
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 04 May 2001).]
I flew for them for 5 1/2 years, left in '94. A great comaraderie (sp?) from what I remember, rather like being in the trenches I imagine.
Anyway, we used to make plenty of money until we decided to concentrate on pax instead of the bread and butter work for the Post Office. (Mail bags weren't sexy enough for the investors!) Then, just like so many other small turboprop operators they get jets and go south.
Not actually blaming the jets for the state of affairs - as I heard it MH became a rather 'creative' accountant. Whatever, good luck for the future - I need somewhere to work in my retirement; can't spend ALL my life going round the world playing golf! :-)
Tin hat on.....
Underdog
[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 04 May 2001).]
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I would just like to add my congratulations to all at Gill for turning the situation round, due in no small measure to the dedication of people such as Ballsout and I hate to say it, Hugmonster (only kidding) and the skill and forsight of both Simon Rawcliffe and Malcolm Naylor. I couldn't be more pleased for everyone, well done and good luck for the future.
