Zimbabwe 'seizes US cargo plane'
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Boy_From_Brazil,
Like there is lots of Zimbabweans around here. If we are to be that paranoid than after September 11 this whole site should have been shut down so Uncle Usama and crew can't glean any information from us dimwits. What you think Danny would have to say about that?
Like there is lots of Zimbabweans around here. If we are to be that paranoid than after September 11 this whole site should have been shut down so Uncle Usama and crew can't glean any information from us dimwits. What you think Danny would have to say about that?
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To Mssrs Soussa and BfB,
Other than how the plane appeared in Africa, isn't essentially everything posted in this thread taken from African papers / radio / TV or from the BBC? Hardly sources likely to escape the notice of the Zim authorities or their supporters. Some of the most detailed stories were filed from Harare itself.
Maybe I'm naive, but I really doubt that the Zim authorities would need already-public information reported on PPRuNe to take whatever just or unjust action they wish.
Other than how the plane appeared in Africa, isn't essentially everything posted in this thread taken from African papers / radio / TV or from the BBC? Hardly sources likely to escape the notice of the Zim authorities or their supporters. Some of the most detailed stories were filed from Harare itself.
Maybe I'm naive, but I really doubt that the Zim authorities would need already-public information reported on PPRuNe to take whatever just or unjust action they wish.
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Boy_From_Brazil,
You cheaky monkey.
I don't know how I would ever have to worry about that as I am not a mercenary. Certainly would not go to lots of Africa these days, though I have been to some African countries. Still have to agree with some of the other posts that everything we are talking about is public published information. I also still believe that the Zimbabwean intel guys would never find their way here anyway.
You cheaky monkey.
I don't know how I would ever have to worry about that as I am not a mercenary. Certainly would not go to lots of Africa these days, though I have been to some African countries. Still have to agree with some of the other posts that everything we are talking about is public published information. I also still believe that the Zimbabwean intel guys would never find their way here anyway.
mostly harmless
Ahem.
There is a relevant article in this week's The Economist that contains a number of interesting facts. For example: 'Equatorial Guinea's information minister said the plot was orchestrated by a firm called Triple Options. Documents obtained by The Economist suggest that this was a joint venture, formed for ordinary business purposes, between Mr du Toit and Armengol Ondo Nguema, the president's brother and secret service chief ...
The article is also of interest for what it does not say...
There is a relevant article in this week's The Economist that contains a number of interesting facts. For example: 'Equatorial Guinea's information minister said the plot was orchestrated by a firm called Triple Options. Documents obtained by The Economist suggest that this was a joint venture, formed for ordinary business purposes, between Mr du Toit and Armengol Ondo Nguema, the president's brother and secret service chief ...
The article is also of interest for what it does not say...
From the office of BOB Fulgarbage
'Maybe I'm naive, but I really doubt that the Zim authorities would need already-public information reported on PPRuNe to take whatever just or unjust action they wish'
The Zimbabwian unintelligance agency has stumbled upon undenialbe evidence from PPRUNE (Professional mercinaries rumors network), the extra p is a cover up but we found out beecuz we r speshel. Based upon this evidence we unanomously agree to execute these colonialist, imperialist demons and we will parade their bodies as a lesson to anyone else who is trying to overthrow a legitimate government of africa, elected by the people for my own personal gain.
For the people outside of africa who dont fully understand this post, go to africa experience a beautiful day in paradise
The Zimbabwian unintelligance agency has stumbled upon undenialbe evidence from PPRUNE (Professional mercinaries rumors network), the extra p is a cover up but we found out beecuz we r speshel. Based upon this evidence we unanomously agree to execute these colonialist, imperialist demons and we will parade their bodies as a lesson to anyone else who is trying to overthrow a legitimate government of africa, elected by the people for my own personal gain.
For the people outside of africa who dont fully understand this post, go to africa experience a beautiful day in paradise
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Answer=42
Presumably you are refering to the unanswered question as to who was paying ? .... hmmm .. well who would fund a speculative mercenary raid on a small despotic african state with shedloads of oil ? A government with very close friends in the oil industry perhaps ? ... well who could that be ?
mostly harmless
Flap operator
On a subject as delicate as this, we have to try and avoid both uninformed speculation and repeating information that could turn out to be disinformation. Remember that there are people working in Africa in the petroleum industry who could be affected by what we write.
Having said that, there is considerable relevant information in this thread that comes from what appear to me to be fairly reliable sources, notably concerning the provenance of the aircraft in question, that did not make it to 'The Economist' article. To edit is to choose. The omissions of the magazine article appear to be related to the possible connections that you are inferring.
Moreover, the consistent selection of operatives that do not have European passports shows political sensitivity on behalf of the operation's sponsors.
On a subject as delicate as this, we have to try and avoid both uninformed speculation and repeating information that could turn out to be disinformation. Remember that there are people working in Africa in the petroleum industry who could be affected by what we write.
Having said that, there is considerable relevant information in this thread that comes from what appear to me to be fairly reliable sources, notably concerning the provenance of the aircraft in question, that did not make it to 'The Economist' article. To edit is to choose. The omissions of the magazine article appear to be related to the possible connections that you are inferring.
Moreover, the consistent selection of operatives that do not have European passports shows political sensitivity on behalf of the operation's sponsors.
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More secret stuff from a public newspaper:
Dogs of war walk into carefully set trap
By Gavin du Venage
27mar04
ACCUSED mercenaries facing life in prison on charges of trying to topple the President of oil-rich Equatorial Guinea may have been lured into a trap carefully set to bring the dogs of war to heel.
Within the swirl of conspiracy theories that surround the arrest in Zimbabwe of British mercenary Simon Mann and the 69 men under his command, as well as ex-apartheid era South African special forces soldier Nick du Toit caught with 14 others in Equatorial Guinea, a picture is emerging of a complex plan to bring down the mercenary groups who have plagued Africa for years.
"There's been a lot of steam building up against mercenaries for quite some time," says Theo Neethling of the Faculty of Military Science at Stellenbosch University.
Professor Neethling believes the arrests are meant to signal that soldiers of fortune will no longer be able to operate on the continent.
The South African Government was reportedly aware of the group's plans to stage a coup and allowed it to go ahead, confident they would be caught red-handed in a country that would show little mercy.
Mann and his band are accused of accepting a $US5million ($6.7 million) contract to overthrow the Government of Equatorial Guinea. They were arrested when their Boeing 727 landed at Harare international airport on March 7 and are being held in Chikurubi prison.
The men claim they were on their way to take security jobs at mining operations in eastern Congo. Du Toit, filmed by his captors giving a confession in which he laid out details of the planned coup, and his 14-member force are detained in Equatorial Guinea. One of his men has since died of cerebral malaria.
Latest reports suggest the men may also have been seeking exiled Liberian warlord Charles Taylor, who has a $US2 million bounty on his head. Taylor went into exile in Nigeria last year after a deal South African President Thabo Mbeki helped set up.
A significant number of the men offering themselves as guns for hire across Africa learned their skills in the apartheid war machine. The South African Government has banned its citizens from acting as mercenaries, but this has achieved little other than to force companies like Executive Outcomes, once the primary recruiter of ex-apartheid military personnel, to move its activities to Britain.
With the establishment in 2002 of the African Union, based in the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa, a pact was signed by most of the continent's governments to outlaw military coups and settle conflicts through diplomacy.
Mr Mbeki is particularly resentful of outside interference in African affairs, as his support for Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has demonstrated.
South Africa has been waiting for a chance to put an end to mercenary operations once and for all. And when South African intelligence learned of the apparent plot against Equatorial Guinea, led by key figures in the mercenary trade, they seized their chance.
Several events point to a set-up. One is the hasty removal from Chikurubi prison of three former apartheid soldiers -- Phillip Conjwayo, Kevin Woods and Mike Smith -- who were captured in the late 1980s after placing a bomb outside a guerilla safe house in Zimbabwe.
At first it was believed they were to be released but it now seems possible they were moved in anticipation of the mercenaries' arrival, a month before the men were even arrested.
Local analysts have asked why the South African Government, which tipped off the Zimbabwean authorities, allowed the planeload of mercenaries to take off from a Pretoria airfield when its own legal system could have successfully prosecuted them.
The answer being proposed is that the men will be tied up for months by the creaking Zimbabwean legal machine and could ultimately face life behind bars. Mr Mugabe's own paranoia against foreign overthrow is also likely to play a role in their trial.
As the men's predicament becomes increasingly grim, their fate is likely to deter others from joining similar ventures in Africa. Even if they are eventually set free Mann, du Toit, and the rest are now public figures and unlikely to win any further business conducting covert actions in Africa.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2703,00.html
Dogs of war walk into carefully set trap
By Gavin du Venage
27mar04
ACCUSED mercenaries facing life in prison on charges of trying to topple the President of oil-rich Equatorial Guinea may have been lured into a trap carefully set to bring the dogs of war to heel.
Within the swirl of conspiracy theories that surround the arrest in Zimbabwe of British mercenary Simon Mann and the 69 men under his command, as well as ex-apartheid era South African special forces soldier Nick du Toit caught with 14 others in Equatorial Guinea, a picture is emerging of a complex plan to bring down the mercenary groups who have plagued Africa for years.
"There's been a lot of steam building up against mercenaries for quite some time," says Theo Neethling of the Faculty of Military Science at Stellenbosch University.
Professor Neethling believes the arrests are meant to signal that soldiers of fortune will no longer be able to operate on the continent.
The South African Government was reportedly aware of the group's plans to stage a coup and allowed it to go ahead, confident they would be caught red-handed in a country that would show little mercy.
Mann and his band are accused of accepting a $US5million ($6.7 million) contract to overthrow the Government of Equatorial Guinea. They were arrested when their Boeing 727 landed at Harare international airport on March 7 and are being held in Chikurubi prison.
The men claim they were on their way to take security jobs at mining operations in eastern Congo. Du Toit, filmed by his captors giving a confession in which he laid out details of the planned coup, and his 14-member force are detained in Equatorial Guinea. One of his men has since died of cerebral malaria.
Latest reports suggest the men may also have been seeking exiled Liberian warlord Charles Taylor, who has a $US2 million bounty on his head. Taylor went into exile in Nigeria last year after a deal South African President Thabo Mbeki helped set up.
A significant number of the men offering themselves as guns for hire across Africa learned their skills in the apartheid war machine. The South African Government has banned its citizens from acting as mercenaries, but this has achieved little other than to force companies like Executive Outcomes, once the primary recruiter of ex-apartheid military personnel, to move its activities to Britain.
With the establishment in 2002 of the African Union, based in the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa, a pact was signed by most of the continent's governments to outlaw military coups and settle conflicts through diplomacy.
Mr Mbeki is particularly resentful of outside interference in African affairs, as his support for Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has demonstrated.
South Africa has been waiting for a chance to put an end to mercenary operations once and for all. And when South African intelligence learned of the apparent plot against Equatorial Guinea, led by key figures in the mercenary trade, they seized their chance.
Several events point to a set-up. One is the hasty removal from Chikurubi prison of three former apartheid soldiers -- Phillip Conjwayo, Kevin Woods and Mike Smith -- who were captured in the late 1980s after placing a bomb outside a guerilla safe house in Zimbabwe.
At first it was believed they were to be released but it now seems possible they were moved in anticipation of the mercenaries' arrival, a month before the men were even arrested.
Local analysts have asked why the South African Government, which tipped off the Zimbabwean authorities, allowed the planeload of mercenaries to take off from a Pretoria airfield when its own legal system could have successfully prosecuted them.
The answer being proposed is that the men will be tied up for months by the creaking Zimbabwean legal machine and could ultimately face life behind bars. Mr Mugabe's own paranoia against foreign overthrow is also likely to play a role in their trial.
As the men's predicament becomes increasingly grim, their fate is likely to deter others from joining similar ventures in Africa. Even if they are eventually set free Mann, du Toit, and the rest are now public figures and unlikely to win any further business conducting covert actions in Africa.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2703,00.html
mostly harmless
BBC report: Zimbabwe to extradite 'plotters'
The BBC reports that:
Zimbabwe has changed its extradition policy, so that it can send 70 alleged mercenaries for trial in Equatorial Guinea, the government says.
The men are accused of plotting to stage a coup against the Equatorial Guinea government.
Meanwhile, a judge has ordered an inquiry into claims they were tortured.
Another 15 men are being held in Equatorial Guinea, linked to the same alleged plot.
Human rights groups say they believe at least one of the suspects held in custody in Equatorial Guinea has been tortured to death.
Zimbabwe has changed its extradition policy, so that it can send 70 alleged mercenaries for trial in Equatorial Guinea, the government says.
The men are accused of plotting to stage a coup against the Equatorial Guinea government.
Meanwhile, a judge has ordered an inquiry into claims they were tortured.
Another 15 men are being held in Equatorial Guinea, linked to the same alleged plot.
Human rights groups say they believe at least one of the suspects held in custody in Equatorial Guinea has been tortured to death.
mostly harmless
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Seven Year sentence for Mann
Seven Year sentence handed down to Mann,
see this link
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0910/zimbabwe.html
see this link
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0910/zimbabwe.html
