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Airbus to roll out plans for new plane

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Airbus to roll out plans for new plane

Old 8th Sep 2004, 13:32
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Airbus to roll out plans for new plane

Now that the Airbus CEO is talking about a new A330-200 sized plane, its moved from Rumours to News...

Airbus to roll out plans for new plane

Some fair-use quotes:
Forgeard declined to say if the new model would be a longer-range version of its A330-200 model, which people familiar with the project have said is in the works to compete against the planned 7E7.

"What was written on the A330-200 is speculation, and it's very premature," he said near an airline-delivery ceremony in Toulouse. "We can start from scratch or we can modernize existing products."
--ev--
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 14:13
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An A330 with A345/6 engines? Likely/possible/other thoughts?
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 14:46
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Engines will be the ones being developed for 7E7 - both GE and RR are on board for doing this. Central wing box will be made of composites instead of metal. Most accounts also have a reshaped wing. All this is being done to make a A330-200 sized plane that is competitive in the regional market.

The main debate seems to be whether the tweaks above are sufficient or if a whole new plane will be made. As Mr. Forgeard says above, that has yet to be decided, either is possible.

--ev--
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 14:46
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eal401,

Why? So it can be just as slow and inefficient as those two airplanes are? Come on. Airbus is smarter than that…….
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 17:03
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Not sure how you could get longer range by reducing total thrust by 32k?
The goal is less range, not more. The target market is the regional market, not longhaul. Thus the lighter wing box, a smaller and lighter wing, lighter engines, etc. Both A and B are trying to address the A300/A310/B767 replacement market.

--ev--
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 17:09
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A380focal,

I about shat myself laughing when I saw your username. That is great. If you made it because of my username I am truly flattered.

Cheers.
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 19:34
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747Focal

Methinks I possibly spot a Brit Abroad otherwise we may have found the oft sought rarity of a Yank with a sense of humour?
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Old 8th Sep 2004, 20:05
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more plastic...

fantastic.

Thank Cliff for RVSM or we'd never get past those trundling frog fliegen-wagens.
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 03:17
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Sonic Bam,

Ahhh, not a bad eye, but a few hundred years off. Yes I am a yank, but I been the world over. Who knows, maybe that makes me different.
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 10:35
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Isn't this the A350? Something akin to a A330-200 sized fuselage with shorter wingspan to cover the gap in the product range between the A321 and the A330-200?

Widebody A310 is a MUCH comfier way to travel than narrow body A319/320321 in Europe!
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 11:25
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According to Boeing the 7E7 offers three versions with ranges from 3,500nm with 289 pax, 8,300nm with 217 pax and 8,300nm with 257 pax. If history is any guide, the longer range variants will comprehensively outsell both the shorter range variant and the competitor's shorter ranged alternatives - think 763ER vs 763, A310-300, A300-600R etc. If Airbus are to stand a chance of competing with the 7E7 they'll have to match its range and economy with, maybe, a separate, lighter, variant for short- haul ops. I would have thought this a bit of a tall order through just tweaking the A332.
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 12:10
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Talking

I'm still trying to get my head round the idea that this is an aircraft aimed at the "regional" market..... well, it would certainly allow the pax bigger carryon bags than they can bring on an Embraer 145!
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 13:34
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Torquelink,

You forget that the B7E7 is Boeing's response to the A332. Although the B7E7 will be more efficient than the 332 it is only just a bit different.

All the 20% fuel savings etc Boeing have been talking about for the B7E7 are against the older B767's and not the A332
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 13:44
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Then why would Airbus be spending BILLIONS to counter it.

The numbers don't add up with your statement

Cheers
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 14:12
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...but the odd couple of billion is not quite the same as 10's of billions, although I wish I could refer to my bank account in billions !!!!
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 15:51
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Well,

Airbus would certainly start to use some billions in development of a new airplane if it is a driect replacement for the A300/310 B767-200/300.

It is no problem to find an economic short to long range 250+ seater, but if your market only sustains a consistent pax load of some 180 to 220 people then you either still fly on 15 to 20 year old airplanes or you hope for a market growth.

And if you build the airplane to be felixible enough to sustain both European/Japanese short hauls as well as long hauls going up to 270 paxes in the 'almost freight' config for the european charter operators, then you face a market of some 750 to 1000 aircraft over the next couple of years...
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 16:19
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In the 7E7 presentations I've been given, they never say the 20% is vs the A330 - only vs "previous generation airplanes". Call me a cynic, but when I read that and the rest of the presentation IS vs A330, then I tend to believe it's vs 767. If they don't mention something, it's usually for a reason.

The other thing I don't get is how can a 7E7 with about 15-20% less seats than an A330 ever have a lower seat-mile cost?

To my mind it's the Boeing numbers that don't add up? It may well have a lower trip cost, but if you can fill the seats, you go for the bigger airplane, surely?

As for the range issue, neither the A345 nor the 777-200LR are exactly best sellers, are they? What's the point having a range hardly anyone wants? You just end up with an over engineered aircraft!
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 17:49
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Well, these days one can be on ERJ/CRJ flights for some dreadfully long times... But "regional" in my post means "regional route" not "regional jet". Again, it's the A300/A310/B767 market, not the ERJ/CRJ one that is being addressed.

Lots of speculation about size/range here and elsewhere, so I'll just go with what's in the original article, and trust we'll find out the truth "sometime soon"...
[Forgeard] wouldn't say what size or range the new plane would have.
--ev--

Last edited by ElectroVlasic; 9th Sep 2004 at 20:11.
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Old 9th Sep 2004, 20:32
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I hate the wretched CRJ! Nasty bŁoody cramped little thing. OK perhaps for a 40 min trip from FRA to CLN, but horrid for anything more....

Having flown on 737, 319-321 and BAe146 recently, it would be such heaven if instead LH still used their vastly more comfortable A310s and a few more A300-600s....

Don't believe the bull$hitters from Boeing - the 7E7 is still very much a paper plane. The A330M19 nearly made it, but got canned - and would have fitted the gap in their product range which the A350 will now have to fill.
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Old 10th Sep 2004, 04:53
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A paper plane? Ahh, now there's a thought for reducing weight.
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