Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.


Old 6th Mar 2004, 03:56
  #21 (permalink)  
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Sarcasm acknowledged.

The full facts are obviously not known by all, but people that come up with simple "this is the solution end of story" posts get on peoples nerves, for goodness sake

If the solution was that simple I think it would have been thought of a long time ago. It is to my understanding that the reason airports want to have more runways is to cope with increased passenger travel and more aircraft. And to say "too many runways" is completely illogical and will continue to boggle my mind until the poster replies with a bit more of an explination and I would like to think that I am not the only one coming at the reply from this angle!

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Old 6th Mar 2004, 04:57
  #22 (permalink)  
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TP: Calm yourself. It was (I believe) a little banter from a Heathrow atco aimed at his Manchester colleagues based on their relative experience of 2-runway ops. If any of them want to get wound up about it then that's up to them, not you.

Also, I agree with 119.5. Some very experienced and impartial people from the CAA are going to determine what happened, so there is no need for any of us to speculate. Unfortunately, it seems that a few ill-informed spotters posting what they think they know both here and on has resulted in the usual woeful press activity - the article I saw today in one tabloid rag had apportioned the blame to an atco (and had an interesting graphic showing aircraft departing 06L, with arrivals on 24L!). Is that remotely fair to the atco concerned? I note that the airlines involved were also willing to pass judgement. Shame on them.

It really makes me wonder. When every aviation-related article I read, without fail - broadsheet or tabloid, seems to have blatant inaccuracies or ridiculous sensationalism, what does that mean about the rest of the stuff that I rely on them to inform me about? Is it all cr*p?
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Old 6th Mar 2004, 05:13
  #23 (permalink)  
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Sir George Cayley

especially in the MEN
Old 6th Mar 2004, 06:30
  #24 (permalink)  
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nail your colours to the post. Do you work at that tower only unit east of Windsor. If you do ,I cross more acft across an active rwy in one day than you see in a month. Then I have to use my approach radar rating on the other days .

Come down of your high horse
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Old 6th Mar 2004, 08:27
  #25 (permalink)  
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The Manchester Evening News recognised the value of it's scare story all by itself. In later editions, the front page switched to a "footballers arrested" yarn instead. Now that's REALLY important!

:-) SHED.
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Old 6th Mar 2004, 15:15
  #26 (permalink)  

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Some may think that English celebrities engaged in gang rape in a foreign country actually is more important than hot brakes in Manchester.

Either way, I've no doubt that both stories will be sensationalised out of all proportion.

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Old 7th Mar 2004, 19:31
  #27 (permalink)  
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Short answer is YES.

When we all stop buying newspapers with cr@p journalism in them (IE all of them) then, and only then will they change tack and attempt to find the facts and not make them up just to meet a deadline.

Rant over... I thankyou.
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Old 7th Mar 2004, 20:35
  #28 (permalink)  
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Unhappy Manchester?

Maybe the time is approaching for a policy review at Pprune? Aviation industry professionals will always want to learn of potentially hazardous incidents, the cause(s) and what measures have been proposed to prevent any similar recurrence. This factual information is freely circulated after the appropriate investigation and is rightly a priceless source of information and education. Speaking personally, I seriously doubt the value of posting stories such as this one because their greatest value and appeal is to journos who are free to besmirch the reputation of this fine industry with their sensationalist and fact-free tactics. Remember this: REGARDLESS OF HOW INCREDIBLE, MANY PEOPLE DO BELIEVE WHAT THEY READ IN THE 'PAPERS! bm
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Old 8th Mar 2004, 01:09
  #29 (permalink)  
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Sue 'em!!

With regard to journos coming on here and lifting quotes from individuals who may (or may not) be stating the facts accurately, is there any requirement for said journos to obtain permission before quoting individuals? Newspapers (and publishers in general) are always keen to tell us how we must seek written permission before copying any of their material, so should we be taking these journos to court?
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Old 8th Mar 2004, 01:41
  #30 (permalink)  
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The problem with the "wait for the official enquiry" approach is that all such enquiries seem to get mired with their own processes and take often years for the results to come out. Yet the actual detail of the problem must become known to those at the centre of things within hours. In the meantime speculation and uninformed comment have a field day. Statements of "we can't comment before the enquiry" get seen as whitewash.

Even the AAIB, generally seen as one of the better organisations, takes many months to report on trivial issues. And anything where lawyers get involved always seems to get dragged on for years (which is doubtless why certain people want the lawyers involved in the first place).

Interesting to see BBC news reporting on the serious explosion of the fuel train in Iran recently, that the Iranian Government set up an immediate enquiry on the Tuesday, to report back the following Sunday.
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Old 8th Mar 2004, 01:54
  #31 (permalink)  
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I think that the Iraqis are producing some sort of report pretty quickly because lots of people died.
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Old 8th Mar 2004, 19:26
  #32 (permalink)  
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I would like to know is why was the thread pulled in the first place? As users we have no rights and we are blessed to have such a well run site as PPrune and the moderators can do whatever they like. However, I don't think this thread would have been chopped had the incident taken place elsewhere. Compare this story with the crash in Indonesia. There is a thread full of idle speculation and (probably) ill informed comment yet it remains posted. Surely foreign journalists use the same tactics and resources as there lowlife UK counterparts? Why then was this thread not also removed?
Unless there are legal reasons I don't understand. I hope it is not because it was an event which took place in the UK, which might be a bit close to home. The Indonesian crash thread has accusations of FA deserting post, crew flying about until fuel was exhausted, refuelling errors and god knows what else.
Level playing field I say.
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Old 8th Mar 2004, 23:17
  #33 (permalink)  
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For the professional pilots and ATC who remain interested in the safety of our industry and the reduction of risks that could lead to runway incursion accidents, see Eurocontrol Runway Safety Awareness Material.
Eurocontrol and the Joint Initiative Partners should be congratulated on producing this safety material, it appears that they have been far more active than some European National Aviation Authorities. However, before everyone orders the training CD-ROM consider the download option, it takes approx 1hr 30min on 512Kbps broadband.
Alternative / additional material from FAA Runway Safety.

ALF, an independent safety minded retired gentleperson without affiliation except for seeking improved safety in our industry.

Unless specifically authorized everything else is forbidden.
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Old 9th Mar 2004, 02:56
  #34 (permalink)  
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I would like to know is why was the thread pulled in the first place?
Was it pulled, or was it just that the user starting the topic decided to delete his original post ---- and the thread with it??
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Old 9th Mar 2004, 07:18
  #35 (permalink)  
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I think I started it and I know I didn't delete it.
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Old 10th Mar 2004, 05:25
  #36 (permalink)  
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Just read your post in detail. I agree. I think that the professionals PILOTS/ATCOS should have their own private forum, if that is what you implied, This would stop all innacurate rumours going around and we could discuss such matters on a more professinal basis without the newspaper people getting involved. I don't know how PPRUNE could monitor this but that is up to them if they feel it is justworthy.
If NATS and some of the Airlines can have their own forums then why can't there be a forum for the professionally qualified aviation personnel?

ILS 119.5
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