British Airways Citiexpress
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Ladies and Gentlemen
This is all very interesting. Tandemrotor you are spending a lot of time on this forum advancing the management reasonable - Balpa misguided line.
I understand that the BACX management are already stalling over some of the commitments they had made to BACX CC in the last week. I don't blame them really that's their job.
But they should be in no doubt that for many of us, our patience is exhausted and many of my colleagues no longer care if the Company succeeds or fails as they have become so disinvested.
TR - keep your arguments coming that's your right, but at the end of the day I doubt your vote will count.
This is all very interesting. Tandemrotor you are spending a lot of time on this forum advancing the management reasonable - Balpa misguided line.
I understand that the BACX management are already stalling over some of the commitments they had made to BACX CC in the last week. I don't blame them really that's their job.
But they should be in no doubt that for many of us, our patience is exhausted and many of my colleagues no longer care if the Company succeeds or fails as they have become so disinvested.
TR - keep your arguments coming that's your right, but at the end of the day I doubt your vote will count.
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I think perhaps it is time to broaden this discussion somewhat. After all, I did title the thread BACX, and we have now many pages of (presumed) aircrew discussing their own very narrow perspective.
Take a broader view, look at the ‘bigger picture,’ and no I am not suggesting that the complaints described here are not important, or should not be addressed. They are however only a small part of the whole, and I think we should not simply focus on our own narrow viewpoint, but remember that an airline does not only depend on its aircrews.
Consider this:
We are working for a company whose pilots have recently voted to support strike action.
The operations department is being relocated to Birmingham.
The majority of the experienced operations staff will NOT be going to Birmingham.
The crewing department has recently moved to Birmingham and we all know what chaos that has caused. Now consider that the crewing department has moved most of the existing staff from the IoM to Birmingham, so that it is mainly the same people doing the same job in a different place.
Then consider that very shortly we will be faced with a new Operations section in Birmingham, with mainly new and inexperienced Ops Controllers, a Nav Services department with new and inexperienced staff, and that the Nav Services Manager departs the company in a couple of weeks (due to an unwillingness to relocate, reinforced by the thoughtless, stubborn actions and short-sightedness of ‘management’).
Faced with this soon to be chaotic situation, it seems particularly thoughtless and insensitive and ill-timed, or maybe just completely uninformed and unaware, for the MD to send out a letter to all staff reminding them not to remove company property. Or is there another agenda here? Access to mainline, seniority and secondees may soon be minor considerations.
I leave the further responses to speculate, but I suggest a bit of brushing up on flight planning, fuel calculations and get used to looking at charts!
Take a broader view, look at the ‘bigger picture,’ and no I am not suggesting that the complaints described here are not important, or should not be addressed. They are however only a small part of the whole, and I think we should not simply focus on our own narrow viewpoint, but remember that an airline does not only depend on its aircrews.
Consider this:
We are working for a company whose pilots have recently voted to support strike action.
The operations department is being relocated to Birmingham.
The majority of the experienced operations staff will NOT be going to Birmingham.
The crewing department has recently moved to Birmingham and we all know what chaos that has caused. Now consider that the crewing department has moved most of the existing staff from the IoM to Birmingham, so that it is mainly the same people doing the same job in a different place.
Then consider that very shortly we will be faced with a new Operations section in Birmingham, with mainly new and inexperienced Ops Controllers, a Nav Services department with new and inexperienced staff, and that the Nav Services Manager departs the company in a couple of weeks (due to an unwillingness to relocate, reinforced by the thoughtless, stubborn actions and short-sightedness of ‘management’).
Faced with this soon to be chaotic situation, it seems particularly thoughtless and insensitive and ill-timed, or maybe just completely uninformed and unaware, for the MD to send out a letter to all staff reminding them not to remove company property. Or is there another agenda here? Access to mainline, seniority and secondees may soon be minor considerations.
I leave the further responses to speculate, but I suggest a bit of brushing up on flight planning, fuel calculations and get used to looking at charts!
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Heard a rumour last week that the company want cabin crew to clean the cabin on each turn around and offering the grand sum of absolutely nothing for the privilige of doing so for the first year, then £3.00 per DAY after that!!!! so route planning and sutch like could be the least of our problems!!!
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Surely in today's environment it's got to make sense to combine Ops Departments and to centralise crewing...it should have been done in the first year of BACX, rather than wait till now. What's the point of moaning about it.
And what's wrong with cabin crew cleaning aircraft? It happens in other airlines; why should we be any different.
I don't think many of the contributors realise the seriousness of competition out there, and the absolute necessity of keeping on top of costs and efficiencies. Surely the airline industry is no different from other businesses; which means that if you don't like what's happening there's absolutely nothing to stop you from going elsewhere. It's a free market.
Management, however, must work much harder in communicating the extent of the business environment to all staff. What's wrong in taking everyone into their confidence and openly discussing the detailed financial state of the business, hiding nothing. Real figures; real numbers. I guess big brother BA won't let them because of Stock Exchange regulations. It's a great shame because only a complete and full sharing and understanding of the financial performance will stop the cynicism, and is one of the biggest problems facing the Company. This lack of open and no-holds-barred communication is driving a massive wedge of distrust between them and us. And I can't see it getting any better.
And what's wrong with cabin crew cleaning aircraft? It happens in other airlines; why should we be any different.
I don't think many of the contributors realise the seriousness of competition out there, and the absolute necessity of keeping on top of costs and efficiencies. Surely the airline industry is no different from other businesses; which means that if you don't like what's happening there's absolutely nothing to stop you from going elsewhere. It's a free market.
Management, however, must work much harder in communicating the extent of the business environment to all staff. What's wrong in taking everyone into their confidence and openly discussing the detailed financial state of the business, hiding nothing. Real figures; real numbers. I guess big brother BA won't let them because of Stock Exchange regulations. It's a great shame because only a complete and full sharing and understanding of the financial performance will stop the cynicism, and is one of the biggest problems facing the Company. This lack of open and no-holds-barred communication is driving a massive wedge of distrust between them and us. And I can't see it getting any better.
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Jordan BACX is still part of the BA empire, surely in the one empire all should be treated the same? Maybe though one should believe in the morals of "Animal Farm" all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others?
Yes by all means get cabin crew to clean a/c but lets have it across ALL of BA , not just BACX.
The low cost airlines do not want loyalty from their cabin crew, they want a fast turnover of crew to keep costs down. Does BA need the same in a Full Service airline?
Logic states that if you tread this path your staff will loose their loyalty and morale with the customer suffering the consequences.
Yes by all means get cabin crew to clean a/c but lets have it across ALL of BA , not just BACX.
The low cost airlines do not want loyalty from their cabin crew, they want a fast turnover of crew to keep costs down. Does BA need the same in a Full Service airline?
Logic states that if you tread this path your staff will loose their loyalty and morale with the customer suffering the consequences.
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If that had been the case, then BA could have kept the regional bases. It doesnt work like that. LHR has high yeilds gatwick and the regions dont. therefore the costs must be lower. Its not like the RJ100's or the ERJ's are as comfortable as a A319, but the market cant take the 319's costs, just as it cant take Mainlines costs (and i'm not supporting them at all)
Ref Cabin Crew loyalty, BA doesnt have loyalty it has Cabin Crew who wont move because they wont get the money elsewhere which is not a good situation, and in my experience the BACX CCrew in the regions are much better at Full service than the BA ones because they know the world doesnt owe them a living.
Ref Cabin Crew loyalty, BA doesnt have loyalty it has Cabin Crew who wont move because they wont get the money elsewhere which is not a good situation, and in my experience the BACX CCrew in the regions are much better at Full service than the BA ones because they know the world doesnt owe them a living.
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WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE...This country in turning into a bunch of whingers... When i go to france the majority of cars on the road are french, the same can be said of Italy and itallian cars and in germany also...The supermarkets are full of their own national products...So much of the best of British is either gone or going. BA and that includes BACX is still held up in the eyes of the general public as something to be proud of. The problem i think is one of British Arrogance and a resistance to change. The England Rugby team is a shining example of adopting policies and engendering change in the traditional ways of operating in order to compete and become leaders of the world. If something is going to be a success everyone needs to take responsibility and make an effort to compete and understand the need to change and evolve. As an outsider to BA, id say that is also a requirement of its management also. Managers can talk about the need to change downline...Great...but if they are unable to change the way they manage staff also then the requirement for change downline is going to hit choppy water. This whole thread is riddled with the cancer of complacency. If you get a job then i think you should try to be the best at that job, if you dont want to be the best and do the best for yourself then why do the job.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for reading!
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Strummer ; As BA mainline you are spot on we are at times stuck in a cul de sac not wishing for any changes what so ever. That in itself is reflected in our loss of most industry in the UK. Aviation and government policy seems to have no direction at all.
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HM, querry high yields on short haul? What about thge added costs of the CAT Lounge? Transport Costs? It goes on and on which must detract from your High Yield. The out stations don't have that. also LGW is needed by BA not only to stop Easy from gaining too big a foothold but also to provide our One World alliance partner "American Airlines" with a feeder network.
Nothing is simple, nor straight forward LHR is not the be and end all. Though there are those in BA who consider it so.
Nothing is simple, nor straight forward LHR is not the be and end all. Though there are those in BA who consider it so.
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I have to agree with Jordan on some issues. When CF some years ago moved across to BA AOC and in stages to BA ground handling it is a fact that costs escalated as it is common knowledge that BA ground cost are as much as three times the opposition. The TGWU ramp reps will tell you that at LHR and in fairness to them are engaged in reducing the costs. LGW is probably worst having lost the large number of flights. It is also the case at BHX and MAN that our ramp/ handling and dispatch costs are higher.
With due respect it must follow that BACX costs were higher and at the present they will struggle to reduce them which is the problem for the other areas within BA.
It would seem to me to be without question that there are any number of LCs waiting for us to fail in the UK regions. Let us hope that for all involved this does not happen.
With due respect it must follow that BACX costs were higher and at the present they will struggle to reduce them which is the problem for the other areas within BA.
It would seem to me to be without question that there are any number of LCs waiting for us to fail in the UK regions. Let us hope that for all involved this does not happen.
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HZ123
You wer,nt there then when a well know director said that all the costs at LGW were in the right place.
Please save us your managment claptrap I hear enough of that at work!
You wer,nt there then when a well know director said that all the costs at LGW were in the right place.
Please save us your managment claptrap I hear enough of that at work!
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The bottom line with CityExpress is still that our leaders are not.
That is, they are not 'of' us, and are neither interested or committed to any result other than their next target in the BA management career ladder. All this requires is a short term ability to 'present' an apparent cost-cutting measure which meets their KPIs, regardless of the medium or long term future of the enterprise. When things were BRAL/Manx/Brymon, the senior management were there because they believed in the Company, or at least, their own future in that area. The truth of that can be seen by the pretty much zero number of senior management in all departments we had leave. Some had their faults, but their own interests coincided with Company progress, so they were not interested particularly in a quick fix, or a scam.
Now! Ha!
We are just the low point on the slippery pole of BA advancement for management creatures like TDLF and McL etc. Noticeably, those already left/leaving have achieved a better position. Where next for the Dental Floss man I wonder?
That is, they are not 'of' us, and are neither interested or committed to any result other than their next target in the BA management career ladder. All this requires is a short term ability to 'present' an apparent cost-cutting measure which meets their KPIs, regardless of the medium or long term future of the enterprise. When things were BRAL/Manx/Brymon, the senior management were there because they believed in the Company, or at least, their own future in that area. The truth of that can be seen by the pretty much zero number of senior management in all departments we had leave. Some had their faults, but their own interests coincided with Company progress, so they were not interested particularly in a quick fix, or a scam.
Now! Ha!
We are just the low point on the slippery pole of BA advancement for management creatures like TDLF and McL etc. Noticeably, those already left/leaving have achieved a better position. Where next for the Dental Floss man I wonder?
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the management seem to have lost the plot since BRAL and others were mergerd. Used to run very well or maybe i have my goggles on
The isle of man has and will ultimatly be the big loser as more of the loss making routes are cut
The isle of man has and will ultimatly be the big loser as more of the loss making routes are cut
