Blue Fox - Pilots' Paradise?
Guest
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Blue Fox - Pilots' Paradise?
From today’s Indy: Blue Fox Airlines will be starting business class flights (50 inch seat pitch) from STN to NY next March, using 3 767s, 1 of which will be on permanent S/B with crew at STN. As an ex-BALPA man, no doubt Biker Tebbit will want to make sure that the pilots’ pay and conditions are the best in the industry . . .
Guest
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Lets keep the optimism in check people.
You only have to look at the first posts on the DHL thread to realise that you ought not believe all thats rumoured (even pprune rumoured).
lets wait until we see the package before we start jumping through hoops.
Alby.
You only have to look at the first posts on the DHL thread to realise that you ought not believe all thats rumoured (even pprune rumoured).
lets wait until we see the package before we start jumping through hoops.
Alby.
Guest
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The Article in question is factual.
It depicts the intentions of Blue Fox; there should be no reason as to why this cannot be achieved.
Applications for jobs will be sought during September.
Your continued support is appreciated.
The Fixer
[This message has been edited by THE FIXER (edited 23 April 2001).]
It depicts the intentions of Blue Fox; there should be no reason as to why this cannot be achieved.
Applications for jobs will be sought during September.
Your continued support is appreciated.
The Fixer
[This message has been edited by THE FIXER (edited 23 April 2001).]
Guest
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I do not want to be a killjoy bit if I was running Blue Fox?Newlines I would not be considering paying 80k+++.
These jobs if they materialise are jobs that would appeal to ex Nigels, those who wish to return to UK for direct commands such as myself rated on B757/767. These will be nice jobs .Single sector long haul with a night stop,unlike DHL 4 sector night flights.
If I was an ex Nigel I would love this job whereas I would not remotely consider DHL as it sounds far too much like hard work to me!!
These jobs if they materialise are jobs that would appeal to ex Nigels, those who wish to return to UK for direct commands such as myself rated on B757/767. These will be nice jobs .Single sector long haul with a night stop,unlike DHL 4 sector night flights.
If I was an ex Nigel I would love this job whereas I would not remotely consider DHL as it sounds far too much like hard work to me!!
Guest
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Given Biker Norm's attitude towards value for money, I am very surprised that they are offering as much as £80K - especially for a start-up! Gotta be a catch in there somewhere... 
Dutchie - if it wasn't for all the visionary "dreamers" out there, this industry would be run exclusively by governments and pay would be at civil service rates. Sure, the attrition rates are high ... but at least we all tried. Can you say that? 
Dutchie - if it wasn't for all the visionary "dreamers" out there, this industry would be run exclusively by governments and pay would be at civil service rates. Sure, the attrition rates are high ... but at least we all tried. Can you say that?
Guest
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Could somebody help me out ?
I know of "Newlines" after reading their ad for 757 crews a couple of months ago.
They thought of "a whole new concept for pax flights" on route STN-JFK.
Sounds good to me : expensive tickets and hopefully good service and seats
(a 180 turn from the low-cost concept lately)
But now : is Blue Fox the same as Newlines ?
Thanks , cheers !
I know of "Newlines" after reading their ad for 757 crews a couple of months ago.
They thought of "a whole new concept for pax flights" on route STN-JFK.
Sounds good to me : expensive tickets and hopefully good service and seats
(a 180 turn from the low-cost concept lately)
But now : is Blue Fox the same as Newlines ?
Thanks , cheers !
Guest
Posts: n/a
Inspector Morse:
The following report from Air Transport Intelligence (their copyright) may clear the Newlines/Blue Fox confusion up.
Cheers
Cyrano
Premium transatlantic start-up to unveil name in June
David Morrow, London (23Apr01, 19:11 GMT, 304 words)
Proposed UK all-business start-up carrier Newlines Airways is planning to unveil a new name in June, under which the
airline will launch transatlantic operations between London and New York.
Founder and CEO Julian Cook says he hopes to conclude a funding agreement at the end of May which will provide £25
million ($36 million) from a group principally comprising five institutional investors.
The carrier intends to operate 80-seat Boeing 757-200 aircraft on daily services between London Stansted and New York
JFK. It plans to acquire two aircraft initially, with a third possibly following soon after.
But although Newlines has been eyeing lessor GATX to supply the aircraft, Cook says: “The market for 757 aircraft has
changed considerably over the last few months, and we’ve had other unsolicited offers – even for new equipment.”
Through a partnership with UK charter carrier Air 2000 Newlines has already secured slots for its proposed service. Air
2000 has extensive twin-jet operations (ETOPS) experience and Newlines has an agreement in which Air 2000 will provide
air operator’s certificate (AOC) coverage at least for an initial 12-month period.
Newlines is aiming to capture 3% of the London-New York premium market, which it estimates to be worth around $1.7
billion per year.
“We plan to offer an affordable business class service with discounts of 50-75% off published business-class prices,”
says Cook.
Along with the carrier’s formal name, Cook also intends in June to reveal a launch date for operations. The airline is currently
racing against another proposed premium-class start-up, Blue Fox Executive Airlines, which is looking to launch daily
services next March on the same route using Boeing 767-300ERs.
However, Cook doubts the market is large enough for two such operations on the route, and is also sceptical over the use
of an aircraft the size of a 767 for the service.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
The following report from Air Transport Intelligence (their copyright) may clear the Newlines/Blue Fox confusion up.
Cheers
Cyrano
Premium transatlantic start-up to unveil name in June
David Morrow, London (23Apr01, 19:11 GMT, 304 words)
Proposed UK all-business start-up carrier Newlines Airways is planning to unveil a new name in June, under which the
airline will launch transatlantic operations between London and New York.
Founder and CEO Julian Cook says he hopes to conclude a funding agreement at the end of May which will provide £25
million ($36 million) from a group principally comprising five institutional investors.
The carrier intends to operate 80-seat Boeing 757-200 aircraft on daily services between London Stansted and New York
JFK. It plans to acquire two aircraft initially, with a third possibly following soon after.
But although Newlines has been eyeing lessor GATX to supply the aircraft, Cook says: “The market for 757 aircraft has
changed considerably over the last few months, and we’ve had other unsolicited offers – even for new equipment.”
Through a partnership with UK charter carrier Air 2000 Newlines has already secured slots for its proposed service. Air
2000 has extensive twin-jet operations (ETOPS) experience and Newlines has an agreement in which Air 2000 will provide
air operator’s certificate (AOC) coverage at least for an initial 12-month period.
Newlines is aiming to capture 3% of the London-New York premium market, which it estimates to be worth around $1.7
billion per year.
“We plan to offer an affordable business class service with discounts of 50-75% off published business-class prices,”
says Cook.
Along with the carrier’s formal name, Cook also intends in June to reveal a launch date for operations. The airline is currently
racing against another proposed premium-class start-up, Blue Fox Executive Airlines, which is looking to launch daily
services next March on the same route using Boeing 767-300ERs.
However, Cook doubts the market is large enough for two such operations on the route, and is also sceptical over the use
of an aircraft the size of a 767 for the service.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Guest
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And who is behind Blue Fox? As for Newlines, I'm sorry, but an 80 seat B757 at "affordable" Business Class fares below the standard price - and only from STN to boot. I give them 3 months tops. Blue Fox won't even get off the blocks. No, I'm not an expert but I've been associated with the business long enough to know that this venture won't be profitable. I said the same very early on about Caledonian Wings and of course I was hammered by The Guvnor. And where is Caledonian Wings today?
Newlines is the real thing but Blue Fox I'm not sure about. I have a strange feeling that this is a dreamer's paper airline. I may be wrong but we'll see.
Newlines is the real thing but Blue Fox I'm not sure about. I have a strange feeling that this is a dreamer's paper airline. I may be wrong but we'll see.
Guest
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OK Silkman, but my meaning of "off blocks" is actually operating. I doubt if that GBP 15M is in the bank yet. That's just a figure based on anticipated bookings. My local carrier was promised a viable percentage of bookings by local commercial companies to open a new route. The loads never materialised as promised and it soon had to be dropped.
Guest
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In answer to the above...watch the press over the next few weeks as contracts have been entered into.
As for Newlines...lets get serious a business airline is about quality of service etc etc. Well how the hell can you provide that when you are operating 757-200 narrow body long haul business class it just does not work and only a fool would believe that it could. To provide and maintain quality you need highly motivated and trained staff, staff trained for that particular product not staff trained for leisure work, not staff that are not even employed by you. Using old aircraft on such a route for the business class traveller with constant technical problems is utter madness. They totally underestimate the competition. Ask them what happened to all their flight ops team where are they now, where is their sales and marketing team, what happened to that, for gods sake who in their airline has any airline experience, just look at the business plan. Not one person has ever worked with an airline. Piggy backing someone else’s AOC not very clever. There concept is ill-conceived, not supported by the City, not supported by Agents etc etc and I am led to believe has no management team left. They keep saying that they have slots and route licence..has anyone checked..oh please check at both ends youre in for a surprise. How can they operate out of the UK or EU when I am led to believe they are all COLUMBIANS!!!,
now lets get to the point of funding, where is it all coming from.....COLUMBIA????
As for Newlines...lets get serious a business airline is about quality of service etc etc. Well how the hell can you provide that when you are operating 757-200 narrow body long haul business class it just does not work and only a fool would believe that it could. To provide and maintain quality you need highly motivated and trained staff, staff trained for that particular product not staff trained for leisure work, not staff that are not even employed by you. Using old aircraft on such a route for the business class traveller with constant technical problems is utter madness. They totally underestimate the competition. Ask them what happened to all their flight ops team where are they now, where is their sales and marketing team, what happened to that, for gods sake who in their airline has any airline experience, just look at the business plan. Not one person has ever worked with an airline. Piggy backing someone else’s AOC not very clever. There concept is ill-conceived, not supported by the City, not supported by Agents etc etc and I am led to believe has no management team left. They keep saying that they have slots and route licence..has anyone checked..oh please check at both ends youre in for a surprise. How can they operate out of the UK or EU when I am led to believe they are all COLUMBIANS!!!,
now lets get to the point of funding, where is it all coming from.....COLUMBIA????
Guest
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Mr Fixer
Im not so sure you cant use narrow bodys for this type of service. Both Airbus and Boeing, with their BBJ, have smaller narrow body aircraft, in a buisinesst class fit, with the ability to do UK to JFK. I believe Mr Branson is looking into this area. I also believe Monarch and A2000 have vastly reduced seat numbers in some of their 757's operating for the upper end of the market.
It's not the width of the aircraft that counts its the amount of personal space you have inside.
Im not so sure you cant use narrow bodys for this type of service. Both Airbus and Boeing, with their BBJ, have smaller narrow body aircraft, in a buisinesst class fit, with the ability to do UK to JFK. I believe Mr Branson is looking into this area. I also believe Monarch and A2000 have vastly reduced seat numbers in some of their 757's operating for the upper end of the market.
It's not the width of the aircraft that counts its the amount of personal space you have inside.