Blue Fox - Pilots' Paradise?
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Service I agree is vital, hence the reason why you need to have your own staff trained to provide and maintain that service. Having someone elses staff via their AOC is not the answer. BBJs etc are designed for the business user with lots of room including width thereby creating the right ambience. A 757-200 quite simply does not work..great aircraft for leisure travel though..of to sunny Spain etc with screaming kids... 
The Fixer
The Fixer
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Mr Fixer I don't doubt your concerns regarding the source of the funding and lack of any airline experience in the startup for Newlines but I think you need to review your comments about the ability of the 757 to be used for long haul business class ops.
Air 2000 who are reputed to be the AOC holder who will operate the a/c on behalf of Newlines until they get their own AOC (if ever) are not unaccustomed to operating the B757 in an all 1st class mode around the world. Every year on behalf of TCS they convert 2 of their 757's to an all 1st class seat layout with 90 seats and an extended galley and operate 'Air Cruises' around the world to some very exotic destinations including Mongolia, Easter Island, Galapagos, Roratonga and many other locations. Their passengers are very wealthy people who enjoy this sirt of travel and pay upwards of $40,000 a head for the privelege.
Next year I believe that Air 2000 will be converting 3 a/c for this work for 17 themed trips. Therefore I think your views on the a/c being unsuitable and the AOC holder who will operate the a/c on behalf of Newlines being only used to 'leisure' operations is a bit unprofessional of you and points to a possible underestimate of your competitions plans. I am sure that whatever happens to Newlines that Air 2000 will make sure they have enough money up front not to be burnt by any of the other shortcomings of the new startup.
Air 2000 who are reputed to be the AOC holder who will operate the a/c on behalf of Newlines until they get their own AOC (if ever) are not unaccustomed to operating the B757 in an all 1st class mode around the world. Every year on behalf of TCS they convert 2 of their 757's to an all 1st class seat layout with 90 seats and an extended galley and operate 'Air Cruises' around the world to some very exotic destinations including Mongolia, Easter Island, Galapagos, Roratonga and many other locations. Their passengers are very wealthy people who enjoy this sirt of travel and pay upwards of $40,000 a head for the privelege.
Next year I believe that Air 2000 will be converting 3 a/c for this work for 17 themed trips. Therefore I think your views on the a/c being unsuitable and the AOC holder who will operate the a/c on behalf of Newlines being only used to 'leisure' operations is a bit unprofessional of you and points to a possible underestimate of your competitions plans. I am sure that whatever happens to Newlines that Air 2000 will make sure they have enough money up front not to be burnt by any of the other shortcomings of the new startup.
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THE FIXER, Would have to agree with Chutney where he says you should review your thinking re B757. Monarch has been operating a winter series of flights over the past six years ex New York to the Seychelles on a B757 with an executive config of 114 pax. Six First class and the rest Business class. It is on behalf of a large Cruise company and so a charter flight. The inside is fantastic and there is stacks of room, very light and airy.
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Rolling Stone, don’t agree with you, both you and Chutney need to understand that a one off operation once or twice a year can be fun. To maintain a high quality service day in day out needs a dedicated and highly motivated and trained team. Using someone else’s AOC and staff will never give you that.
Quoting Monarch and Air 2000 as good examples could not be further from the truth, don’t get me wrong they are two very good airlines at economy level. If they were so good at providing a high-class service then why don’t they do it on a day-to-day basis? I have been on both flights that you are talking about, they were fun and efficient but most certainly not business first.
The 757 does not work, fact!
Who in their right mind would use old B757-200s for a high class business operation, business men don’t come back when the AC keep going tech. 2nd best does not do in the real world….only the best will do! That’s not just the aircraft that’s the staff as well.
The Fixer
Quoting Monarch and Air 2000 as good examples could not be further from the truth, don’t get me wrong they are two very good airlines at economy level. If they were so good at providing a high-class service then why don’t they do it on a day-to-day basis? I have been on both flights that you are talking about, they were fun and efficient but most certainly not business first.
The 757 does not work, fact!
Who in their right mind would use old B757-200s for a high class business operation, business men don’t come back when the AC keep going tech. 2nd best does not do in the real world….only the best will do! That’s not just the aircraft that’s the staff as well.
The Fixer
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As I understand it, Blue Fox intends to operate 3 B767s one of which will be on permanent stand-by. All this whilst charging it's customers an affordable BusinessFirst fare of GBP 1200. I was never any good at advanced maths but I see lots of red ink!
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Personally I think both Newlines and Blue Fox have it all wrong, apart from all the other reason discussed here Stansted has another major problem for niche operators.
Its a hell of a long trip round to LHR or LGW to get their passengers another ride if an ac has any major problems....! Much easier to appease them if flying from LHR or LGW.
'Avman' said earlier that he thought Newlines real...
The following comes from Newlines website [not exactly informative is it for an airline just about to launch!].
New face of transatlantic business travel is announced
London, January 30 2001
An airline company offering a completely new concept in transatlantic air travel is set to close a UKP25 million second round of funding within the next month...
Funded by the end of Feb? The ATI article quaoted said end of May... there's a pattern here it seems. Don't hold your breath!
[This message has been edited by Bumpy Landings (edited 27 April 2001).]
Its a hell of a long trip round to LHR or LGW to get their passengers another ride if an ac has any major problems....! Much easier to appease them if flying from LHR or LGW.
'Avman' said earlier that he thought Newlines real...
The following comes from Newlines website [not exactly informative is it for an airline just about to launch!].
New face of transatlantic business travel is announced
London, January 30 2001
An airline company offering a completely new concept in transatlantic air travel is set to close a UKP25 million second round of funding within the next month...
Funded by the end of Feb? The ATI article quaoted said end of May... there's a pattern here it seems. Don't hold your breath!
[This message has been edited by Bumpy Landings (edited 27 April 2001).]
Guest
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Bumpy Landings
I understand your concerns; flying from Stansted does not exactly offer many alternative options should an aircraft be grounded.
Yes passengers could be taken by bus to LHR or LGW not very convenient and very messy.
Blue Fox have adopted a very sensible and well thought out approach (comes from years of experience).
The passenger being a business person will not tolerate being let down, furthermore he will not tolerate and certainly not return if he faces incompetence.
Blue Fox has addressed these concerns with the high level of importance they deserve.
The first 3 aircraft are no more than 5 years old. By the end of 18 months all aircraft are new.
Unlike Newlines offering very old B757s.
Blue Fox also has a standby support aircraft.
This aircraft is there purely to provide support for the fleet at the same level, quality and configuration expected.
Should an aircraft have technical difficulties then the passengers are transferred to the standby aircraft. It is the only way to correctly address such a problem whilst ensuring that the level of quality remains for the passenger.
Avman, no doubt you are still trying to understand why Ryanair and Easyjet are successful and Go is not, keep away from the numbers as this appears not to be your forte.
Remember, every single one of the Blue Fox Management team is highly experienced and has a record of nothing but success.... experience counts.
The Fixer
[This message has been edited by THE FIXER (edited 29 April 2001).]
I understand your concerns; flying from Stansted does not exactly offer many alternative options should an aircraft be grounded.
Yes passengers could be taken by bus to LHR or LGW not very convenient and very messy.
Blue Fox have adopted a very sensible and well thought out approach (comes from years of experience).
The passenger being a business person will not tolerate being let down, furthermore he will not tolerate and certainly not return if he faces incompetence.
Blue Fox has addressed these concerns with the high level of importance they deserve.
The first 3 aircraft are no more than 5 years old. By the end of 18 months all aircraft are new.
Unlike Newlines offering very old B757s.
Blue Fox also has a standby support aircraft.
This aircraft is there purely to provide support for the fleet at the same level, quality and configuration expected.
Should an aircraft have technical difficulties then the passengers are transferred to the standby aircraft. It is the only way to correctly address such a problem whilst ensuring that the level of quality remains for the passenger.
Avman, no doubt you are still trying to understand why Ryanair and Easyjet are successful and Go is not, keep away from the numbers as this appears not to be your forte.
Remember, every single one of the Blue Fox Management team is highly experienced and has a record of nothing but success.... experience counts.
The Fixer
[This message has been edited by THE FIXER (edited 29 April 2001).]
