Heathrow: Man Held Over 'Ammunition'
The last time there was a threat this serious to British civil aircraft or merchant shipping - the second world war - we set up our own security apparatus in the USA (British Security Co-ordination) to look for saboteurs and shipping spies. (When they found one, they occasionally used the boss(Sir William Stephenson, a Canadian millionaire)'s mafia contacts to dispose of the swine.)
Well, anyone got a better idea?
Well, anyone got a better idea?
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Hey fellow Limey's
Have you noticed how this story which was headline news on all outlets yesterday has just vanished from the news today.
Weird !!
Ooops I take it back - found this low down on Sky News Site
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...972683,00.html
SECURITY CHECKS FAILED
An investigation was under way in the United States after a passenger allegedly carried ammunition on a flight from Washington to London.
The 45-year-old Sudanese-born passenger was arrested on Wednesday on suspicion of terrorism offences.
He was taken from Heathrow airport to a central London police station to be questioned by anti-terrorist branch officers.
He was initially held for allegedly carrying bullets as he went through a routine security check in transit to board a connecting flight to Dubai.
Scotland Yard said he was later arrested under section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, which refers to the alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.
He had not been picked up by security at Washington's Dulles airport, where he boarded Virgin flight VS022.
The man was missed there despite the route between London and Washington having been publicly identified as a potential target for terrorists in recent weeks.
A spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration, responsible for airport security in America, confirmed that an investigation had been launched.
Have you noticed how this story which was headline news on all outlets yesterday has just vanished from the news today.
Weird !!
Ooops I take it back - found this low down on Sky News Site
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...972683,00.html
SECURITY CHECKS FAILED
An investigation was under way in the United States after a passenger allegedly carried ammunition on a flight from Washington to London.
The 45-year-old Sudanese-born passenger was arrested on Wednesday on suspicion of terrorism offences.
He was taken from Heathrow airport to a central London police station to be questioned by anti-terrorist branch officers.
He was initially held for allegedly carrying bullets as he went through a routine security check in transit to board a connecting flight to Dubai.
Scotland Yard said he was later arrested under section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, which refers to the alleged involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.
He had not been picked up by security at Washington's Dulles airport, where he boarded Virgin flight VS022.
The man was missed there despite the route between London and Washington having been publicly identified as a potential target for terrorists in recent weeks.
A spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration, responsible for airport security in America, confirmed that an investigation had been launched.
Ohcirrej
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West Coast,
I do respect what you say about the double standards (BTW, I'm Australian, and always love a bit of Pommie bashing........and getting it back
).
However, I don't subscribe to the "Well, you're just as bad (or worse) than us" argument, especially reference an issue such as this. Security breaches like this are concerning, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that even without a weapon, ammunition can be dangerous.
I do respect what you say about the double standards (BTW, I'm Australian, and always love a bit of Pommie bashing........and getting it back
).However, I don't subscribe to the "Well, you're just as bad (or worse) than us" argument, especially reference an issue such as this. Security breaches like this are concerning, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that even without a weapon, ammunition can be dangerous.
Mike
If you are referring to the traitor/hero thread then you need to reread. I stated an opinion that an American soldier was negligent in his duties. Your findings are a bit non sequitor considering the episode had nothing to do with you limeys.
All I ask is fair treatment. You limeys love to pile on the US but gloss over on your problems in the same area. Just a few weeks ago a gun was carried right through security in the UK(see link) and it gets no play here. I am the first to say the US needs more work in the area of security. I am a pilot who has to deal with US security far more than any of you will ever know.
If you are referring to the traitor/hero thread then you need to reread. I stated an opinion that an American soldier was negligent in his duties. Your findings are a bit non sequitor considering the episode had nothing to do with you limeys.
All I ask is fair treatment. You limeys love to pile on the US but gloss over on your problems in the same area. Just a few weeks ago a gun was carried right through security in the UK(see link) and it gets no play here. I am the first to say the US needs more work in the area of security. I am a pilot who has to deal with US security far more than any of you will ever know.
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I suspect the reason for this alleged "limey smugness" is because Britain doesn't run around the world telling countries that have better security how to do their jobs.......
People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Interesting that one of West Coast's articles includes this quote:
and the same gentleman has said this today:
Unfortunately, our beloved leader does not have the spine nor the balls to tell the Americans that we should never take any lessons from them on security.
People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Interesting that one of West Coast's articles includes this quote:
Last November, President George W. Bush vowed "permanent and
aggressive steps" to bolster security in the U.S. with stronger
cockpit doors, armed marshals on planes, better technology and the
hiring of 28,000 federal baggage screeners within a year.
"The U.S. is making a lot of fuss but very few orders have been made
for any new equipment and the ultimate goal of having 100 percent
baggage screening in place by the end of the year isn't going to
happen," Yates said.
"The industry has been guilty of going for high-profile security,
bolting the front door but leaving the back door wide open. There are
any number of U.S. airfields where the perimeter security is downright
appalling."
aggressive steps" to bolster security in the U.S. with stronger
cockpit doors, armed marshals on planes, better technology and the
hiring of 28,000 federal baggage screeners within a year.
"The U.S. is making a lot of fuss but very few orders have been made
for any new equipment and the ultimate goal of having 100 percent
baggage screening in place by the end of the year isn't going to
happen," Yates said.
"The industry has been guilty of going for high-profile security,
bolting the front door but leaving the back door wide open. There are
any number of U.S. airfields where the perimeter security is downright
appalling."
"There is an impression with all the rhetoric that the US now has the best security in the world and it can stop anything any time. But it didn't stop a bunch of ammunition getting on a plane from Washington to London.
"We are still, in this country, way ahead of the US in terms of security and a lot of what has been done in the US amounts to smoke and mirrors.
"The US has made a rush to judgment with its security, it hasn't looked at best practice elsewhere. It decided on a model based on what some in this industry believe is a flawed approach."
"We are still, in this country, way ahead of the US in terms of security and a lot of what has been done in the US amounts to smoke and mirrors.
"The US has made a rush to judgment with its security, it hasn't looked at best practice elsewhere. It decided on a model based on what some in this industry believe is a flawed approach."
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I cannot believe that the USA still does not have 100% baggage screening. We had this in the UK for checked luggage even before Lockerbie, although at that time transfer baggage was not x-rayed which was how the bomb got onto the aircraft.
We also have proper airport layout so that arriving and departing passengers cannot mix (something which apparently even a major airport in the US capital still does not have) and pax transferring have to be re-screened. The problem with the US is that always takes other peoples constructive criticism as some sort of personal attack.
Whatever you think regarding the BA Washington flight security situation over the Christmas period, I did, in my opinion, send a strong message to the terrorists as to what they can expect if we get a whiff that they maybe up to something. Sadly this latest fiasco has shown them once again just how easy it would be for them......
We also have proper airport layout so that arriving and departing passengers cannot mix (something which apparently even a major airport in the US capital still does not have) and pax transferring have to be re-screened. The problem with the US is that always takes other peoples constructive criticism as some sort of personal attack.
Whatever you think regarding the BA Washington flight security situation over the Christmas period, I did, in my opinion, send a strong message to the terrorists as to what they can expect if we get a whiff that they maybe up to something. Sadly this latest fiasco has shown them once again just how easy it would be for them......
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West Coast
Back in Dec. 1989 I was going home for Christmas after spending 6 months working in The States. While shuttling around the SE U.S. passing through all of the major airports in Fla,Ga,NC,SC,Lou,Ala and even Tx both as a passenger and posn.ing or op.ing aircrew. I NEVER once passed through an Xray machine and encountered 'minimilistic' security. It was a stark contrast from the UK/European enviroment I had experienced and judged as 'the norm'. After flying from the MIA to LGW then on a domestic flight from LHR-IOM the same day, I encountered 2 Xray machines, 2 sets of bag searches and a grilling by a pair of mean looking UK Special Branch Anti-Terrorist Police Officers. These routine checks and screens were standard stuff within the UK and Europe and we were used to these procedures as the travelling public plus they didn't alienate anybody yet were effective. It was the day before Lockerbie.
UK and European Airport/Aviation security cut its teeth after the many Hijack attempts of the 70's and 80's and the horrific attacks on the Rome and Vienna airports and has become probably the most formidable airport/aviation security barrier in the world outside Israel. I travel frequently and even post 9-11 feel far safer travelling through a UK or European airport than I will passing through a US airport for a long while yet. It is readily apparent that the US is playing 'catch up' when it comes to airport security.
Listen to what we have to say and input to the 'Global Security Threat', work with us, drop the US.vs. The World hysteria and paranoia, and respect the fact that the UK and Europe has had to deal with perceived and real Terrorist threats since the end of WW2. We genuinely DO KNOW more about terrorist surveillence and terrorist attack prevention through previous experience than the U.S.
However as a nation you have the technology, the funding, the drive that is the envy of the world. Wouldn't it be in all our interests to pool our resources and start talking to each other? The fact of the matter remains that this guy got through IAD security ON A LONDON BOUND PLANE (and in the wake of the recent LHR-IAD-LHR fiascos!!??) BUT was picked up by LHR security.
He got past you guys but didn't get past us. I'm not being smug, just stating a fact.
Back in Dec. 1989 I was going home for Christmas after spending 6 months working in The States. While shuttling around the SE U.S. passing through all of the major airports in Fla,Ga,NC,SC,Lou,Ala and even Tx both as a passenger and posn.ing or op.ing aircrew. I NEVER once passed through an Xray machine and encountered 'minimilistic' security. It was a stark contrast from the UK/European enviroment I had experienced and judged as 'the norm'. After flying from the MIA to LGW then on a domestic flight from LHR-IOM the same day, I encountered 2 Xray machines, 2 sets of bag searches and a grilling by a pair of mean looking UK Special Branch Anti-Terrorist Police Officers. These routine checks and screens were standard stuff within the UK and Europe and we were used to these procedures as the travelling public plus they didn't alienate anybody yet were effective. It was the day before Lockerbie.
UK and European Airport/Aviation security cut its teeth after the many Hijack attempts of the 70's and 80's and the horrific attacks on the Rome and Vienna airports and has become probably the most formidable airport/aviation security barrier in the world outside Israel. I travel frequently and even post 9-11 feel far safer travelling through a UK or European airport than I will passing through a US airport for a long while yet. It is readily apparent that the US is playing 'catch up' when it comes to airport security.
Listen to what we have to say and input to the 'Global Security Threat', work with us, drop the US.vs. The World hysteria and paranoia, and respect the fact that the UK and Europe has had to deal with perceived and real Terrorist threats since the end of WW2. We genuinely DO KNOW more about terrorist surveillence and terrorist attack prevention through previous experience than the U.S.
However as a nation you have the technology, the funding, the drive that is the envy of the world. Wouldn't it be in all our interests to pool our resources and start talking to each other? The fact of the matter remains that this guy got through IAD security ON A LONDON BOUND PLANE (and in the wake of the recent LHR-IAD-LHR fiascos!!??) BUT was picked up by LHR security.
He got past you guys but didn't get past us. I'm not being smug, just stating a fact.
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We also have proper airport layout so that arriving and departing passengers cannot mix
Title? What title?
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From BBC today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/3402351.stm
A man has been arrested at Stansted Airport in Essex after security officials found him in possession of a handgun.
He was taken into custody on Friday morning, but Essex Police say he is not being questioned under the Terrorism Act.
The 44-year-old man was passing through a routine security check at 0500 GMT when he was found carrying the weapon, which fires ball bearings.
Essex Police say the firearm is similar to a airgun and is not able to discharge bullets.
It is believed the man is British and was preparing to travel to Spain alone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/3402351.stm
A man has been arrested at Stansted Airport in Essex after security officials found him in possession of a handgun.
He was taken into custody on Friday morning, but Essex Police say he is not being questioned under the Terrorism Act.
The 44-year-old man was passing through a routine security check at 0500 GMT when he was found carrying the weapon, which fires ball bearings.
Essex Police say the firearm is similar to a airgun and is not able to discharge bullets.
It is believed the man is British and was preparing to travel to Spain alone.
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Shovel it but can't take it?
Imagine what this thread would have looked like if it was the other way round - caught with live ammo leaving LHR and going to Dulles?
That's what the real problem is; the arrogance that some (not all !) Americans have about telling the rest of the world how to behave and what to do ....
Imagine what this thread would have looked like if it was the other way round - caught with live ammo leaving LHR and going to Dulles?
That's what the real problem is; the arrogance that some (not all !) Americans have about telling the rest of the world how to behave and what to do ....
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What I would say is that this thread has made several of our US posters go up in my estimation since they have had the good graces not to post.
At the base level of this problem we are all in it together. All though many posters in here seem unable to leave well enough alone lets hope that the professionals on both sides of the Atlantic are actually learning the lessons that need learning. There is no room for complacency on either side nor is there cause to overreact either.
I would hope I could speak for all on this site that what we all want is safe, reliable air travel and I actually believe we will get there. We will make mistakes and never get it right all the time.
Cheers
BHR
At the base level of this problem we are all in it together. All though many posters in here seem unable to leave well enough alone lets hope that the professionals on both sides of the Atlantic are actually learning the lessons that need learning. There is no room for complacency on either side nor is there cause to overreact either.
I would hope I could speak for all on this site that what we all want is safe, reliable air travel and I actually believe we will get there. We will make mistakes and never get it right all the time.
Cheers
BHR
