Management Practices.
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Management Practices.
We (BACX) have recently received the latest in a long list of carefully thought out Flight Ops Bulletins from our Chief Pilot Technical. This is basically a good idea, that the pilot(s) emerge post flight to say cheerio to the pax at the Flight Deck door as the pax disembark.
On the RJ series, due to the appalling design of the new secure flight deck door, it is not practicable.
Either:
1. The cabin crew and pax are speared by the massive internal wire grill projections of the awful door design.
or
2. The door in the open position prevents easy egress for the pax.
A Captain pointed this out on our Company internet forum, and was immediately slapped down by our overbearing CP, who referred to him as arrogant and insolent, and suggested he come out of the Flight Deck, and shut the door (all between shutting the engines down, securing the aircraft, doing the checks and before any pax start getting off). Of course, once disembarkation has started, it is impossible to get out of the Flight Deck without hurting someone!!
CP's suggestion then was that the Captain should now stand in the forward galley area. GREAT - except this means he is now behind the Cabin Crew already doing their cheerio bit!
It is enough to make you weep. Another Captain then suggested perhaps it would be an idea to focus on aircraft cleanliness and maintenance. He was slapped down and called naive. Another Captain, (perhaps unwisely) suggested it was a good example of how little our management fly the line. To me it is a first class example of the lack of focus our Operational Management (not to mention BA) continually demonstrate. Everyone has poor ideas sometimes, but the inability to think a scheme through, and its ramifications for all types and situations shows poor mental discipline. Worse, the TOTAL inability to admit when one is wrong, but instead to personally shoot the messenger - PATHETIC!
On the RJ series, due to the appalling design of the new secure flight deck door, it is not practicable.
Either:
1. The cabin crew and pax are speared by the massive internal wire grill projections of the awful door design.
or
2. The door in the open position prevents easy egress for the pax.
A Captain pointed this out on our Company internet forum, and was immediately slapped down by our overbearing CP, who referred to him as arrogant and insolent, and suggested he come out of the Flight Deck, and shut the door (all between shutting the engines down, securing the aircraft, doing the checks and before any pax start getting off). Of course, once disembarkation has started, it is impossible to get out of the Flight Deck without hurting someone!!
CP's suggestion then was that the Captain should now stand in the forward galley area. GREAT - except this means he is now behind the Cabin Crew already doing their cheerio bit!
It is enough to make you weep. Another Captain then suggested perhaps it would be an idea to focus on aircraft cleanliness and maintenance. He was slapped down and called naive. Another Captain, (perhaps unwisely) suggested it was a good example of how little our management fly the line. To me it is a first class example of the lack of focus our Operational Management (not to mention BA) continually demonstrate. Everyone has poor ideas sometimes, but the inability to think a scheme through, and its ramifications for all types and situations shows poor mental discipline. Worse, the TOTAL inability to admit when one is wrong, but instead to personally shoot the messenger - PATHETIC!
bmi came up with much the same idea a few years ago, no doubt to ape BA who seem to be in to this touchy feely stuff. A few keen types do it but most just don't bother. My advice is read the memo and ignore, get the newpaper out and let the cabin crew do the goodbyes in the time honoured way, the pax. don't give a monkeys anyway they just want to get off.
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A few US carriers have these touchy-feely ideas as well.
The flight deck crew should be up front on the flight deck. tending to business.
Now certainly nothing wrong with wanting to say goodbye to the pax, but with the design of the door, doesn't seem reasonably possible.
Think you need a new Chief Pilot, technical.
And why more than one CP on the fleet?
Sounds top heavy with management to me.
Suspect the CP (technical) needs to be technically planted in the LHS, to earn his keep.
OTOH, pity the First Officer
The flight deck crew should be up front on the flight deck. tending to business.
Now certainly nothing wrong with wanting to say goodbye to the pax, but with the design of the door, doesn't seem reasonably possible.
Think you need a new Chief Pilot, technical.
And why more than one CP on the fleet?
Sounds top heavy with management to me.
Suspect the CP (technical) needs to be technically planted in the LHS, to earn his keep.
OTOH, pity the First Officer
As a passenger who used to request the privelege of visiting the flight deck in flight I now accept that I have to stay in the passenger cabin. The appearance of flight deck crew to say goodbye gives me the opportunity to thank both the cabin and flight deck crew and (occasionally) ask the flight deck crew a question (no doubt considered banal but always answered with courtesy for which I am grateful). So, if you can stand SLF asking the occasional question then I would encourage you to open the door and step out!
Controversial, moi?
My advice is read the memo and ignore, get the newpaper out and let the cabin crew do the goodbyes in the time honoured way, the pax.
It is human nature to condemn any changes out of hand, and I am the first to agree that many do seem odd at first glance, but, notwithstanding the physical difficulties, make the effort after completing your duties and you may change your mind.
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"immediately slapped down by our overbearing CP,"
Excellent description of the man! Says it all really.
He interviewed me, and in response to my question, "How would you describe yourself and your management style?" the words he used which struck me were, 'ambitious,' and 'demanding.'
My own understanding of that, confirmed later by others, was that his sole priority was his own advancement, probably at the expense of others.
I withdrew my application as a result.
Excellent description of the man! Says it all really.
He interviewed me, and in response to my question, "How would you describe yourself and your management style?" the words he used which struck me were, 'ambitious,' and 'demanding.'
My own understanding of that, confirmed later by others, was that his sole priority was his own advancement, probably at the expense of others.
I withdrew my application as a result.
Last edited by GWYN; 4th Dec 2003 at 01:31.
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Like MM, me and my mate (737) always TRY to do it once the ignition key is out of the steering lock. Most SEEM to appreciate it and it does allow me to have the F/deck door wide open and therefore any 'visit' requests for little (and big kids 
) can be accommodated. I quite often complete the Tech Log there too. There often are questions, (difficult ones go straight to the F/O 
) etc, and overall if it doesn't get in anything or anyone's way, I think it is a 'good idea'. You can also get a feel for the way the c/crew handled the flight - which is difficult from inside Guantanamo Bay. Doesn't sound like a bright idea for you guys and girls, though, Bral. Quelle surprise!
) can be accommodated. I quite often complete the Tech Log there too. There often are questions, (difficult ones go straight to the F/O ) etc, and overall if it doesn't get in anything or anyone's way, I think it is a 'good idea'. You can also get a feel for the way the c/crew handled the flight - which is difficult from inside Guantanamo Bay. Doesn't sound like a bright idea for you guys and girls, though, Bral. Quelle surprise!
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On the Co. forum, the CP became a bit aggressive, and insisted he was 'familiar with ALL the flight environments of the aircraft we operate'.
A colleague then pointed out the hazardous nature of the RJ security door, expressing concern it could interfere with an evacuation, and hinder exits from the Flight Deck. The CP then suggested the Flight Crew could evacuate via the avionics bay.............forgetting apparently, that the hatch to same cannot be opened unless the flight deck door is open.......DOH!!!!
Obviously not as familiar with the 146 / RJ as he would have us think. Ten outa ten to the guys who raised this point on the Co. forum, as they say, if only management would spend time flying the line - or at least reading their tech manuals.
Pity is that saying hiya to the pax is actually a great idea; its a pity the crap nature of BAe engineering design hinders it so much.
A colleague then pointed out the hazardous nature of the RJ security door, expressing concern it could interfere with an evacuation, and hinder exits from the Flight Deck. The CP then suggested the Flight Crew could evacuate via the avionics bay.............forgetting apparently, that the hatch to same cannot be opened unless the flight deck door is open.......DOH!!!!
Obviously not as familiar with the 146 / RJ as he would have us think. Ten outa ten to the guys who raised this point on the Co. forum, as they say, if only management would spend time flying the line - or at least reading their tech manuals.
Pity is that saying hiya to the pax is actually a great idea; its a pity the crap nature of BAe engineering design hinders it so much.
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I note with interest that this subject has continued at great length on the Company website. Congratulations to bral for initiating this subject. The comments of the Chief Pilot about it being a BA compulsory practice have been shown to be another lie - all he could come up with was an advisory to cabin crew from back in '99. Better still, there are some of our mainline secondees getting in on the act and pointing out the practical and philosophical absurdities of trying to stand at the door and chat to the pax during disembarkation on an RJ/146, due to factors ranging from the cr#p design of the door, leaving sharp edges projecting into the galley area / forward vestibule, blocking the front right exit, trapping the cabin crew, not to mention cost cuts having removed FMS updates so as to cause even more work during turnrounds. This extra work takes time which is better spent setting up the aircraft than delaying the pax leaving the aircraft!!! Hopefully this two way communication, and objections to inane badly thought out and impractical SOPs will persuade the Company to alter their instructions. As for the CP Tech, maybe he should actually fly on some of the aircraft he is so fond of writing requirements for!!
My reason for posting is not that this is a big deal. Chatting to pax on disembarkation is a good idea in principle, but not if the Flight Deck Door makes it very difficult, if not downright dangerous! More, it shows the priorities of the likes of our management as the Company subsides into a sea of debt. Their response is to ask the pilots to say cheerio to the passengers. No doubt we'll shortly get a handout as to what to say, in the same way we have aide memoirs for every other PA briefing under the sun!
Let's hope some of the job cuts coming in January are inclusive of our management.
My reason for posting is not that this is a big deal. Chatting to pax on disembarkation is a good idea in principle, but not if the Flight Deck Door makes it very difficult, if not downright dangerous! More, it shows the priorities of the likes of our management as the Company subsides into a sea of debt. Their response is to ask the pilots to say cheerio to the passengers. No doubt we'll shortly get a handout as to what to say, in the same way we have aide memoirs for every other PA briefing under the sun!
Let's hope some of the job cuts coming in January are inclusive of our management.
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Pity About the "Door"
Donks ago a [BEA Capt] friend told me the following "True Story"
Capt waits at bottom of steps, shakes every pax's hand and invites them to the flight deck. When [all] the pax have boarded, he goes tothe a/c next door....His aeroplane......
watpiktch
Donks ago a [BEA Capt] friend told me the following "True Story"
Capt waits at bottom of steps, shakes every pax's hand and invites them to the flight deck. When [all] the pax have boarded, he goes tothe a/c next door....His aeroplane......
watpiktch
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Management Practices
This is a practice that our management intrduced earlier this year but sort of made it optional. I intially thought it not the thing that I would do, but decided to give it ago. I now think the same as BOAC you do get feed back from the pax and gives them the the chance to ask to see the Flight Deck as I'm sure we all miss the Pax visit in flight.
Paxing All Over The World
Last Saturday, I was sitting in 1C of a BACX 146 (dear old MIMA still plying her trade up to the IOM) and was looking at the door in question during boarding and at close of the flight.
I was amazed (not for the first time) at the metalwork and was wondering who won the competition for designing it ... The problem of reinforcing the door and yet allowing ventilation in a suitable manner is difficult and I'm sure that, one day, someone will solve the problem.
As for smiling at us? Yes, it's fine and Yes I sometimes ask a question and the BACX/BA crew are always a delight. BUT - given the constraints of the galley/steps area AND the silly scaffolding, I think that this should be optional on the RJ/146 and other types with similar constrictions.
In particular - if they have only just done the first sector of the day, I'm sure that they would be better off turning the machine and 'relaxing' for a few minutes. Come to that, if I has just one last sector to do that day, I'm not sure that I would want to stand and smile at me.
I was amazed (not for the first time) at the metalwork and was wondering who won the competition for designing it ...
The problem of reinforcing the door and yet allowing ventilation in a suitable manner is difficult and I'm sure that, one day, someone will solve the problem.As for smiling at us? Yes, it's fine and Yes I sometimes ask a question and the BACX/BA crew are always a delight. BUT - given the constraints of the galley/steps area AND the silly scaffolding, I think that this should be optional on the RJ/146 and other types with similar constrictions.
In particular - if they have only just done the first sector of the day, I'm sure that they would be better off turning the machine and 'relaxing' for a few minutes. Come to that, if I has just one last sector to do that day, I'm not sure that I would want to stand and smile at me.
