BACX pilots to gain access to mainline
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ETOPS
"all the tottie I can handle"
When did you leave BA? Or are you not of a heterosexual inclination??
Any BACX pilots who are up to the job (and let's face it, there are some BA pilots who aren't!) should be given access to mainline in a similar fashion to CFE. However, I'm not to sure 'Grandfather Rights' as such would be appropriate unless BA replaced RJs or ERJs with another type at a particular base.
"all the tottie I can handle"
When did you leave BA? Or are you not of a heterosexual inclination??
Any BACX pilots who are up to the job (and let's face it, there are some BA pilots who aren't!) should be given access to mainline in a similar fashion to CFE. However, I'm not to sure 'Grandfather Rights' as such would be appropriate unless BA replaced RJs or ERJs with another type at a particular base.
Tandemrotor
The "tottie" reference was very much tongue in cheek - that's unless you are into 50 yearold spinsters who live in bitter isolation near Windsor......
The "tottie" reference was very much tongue in cheek - that's unless you are into 50 yearold spinsters who live in bitter isolation near Windsor......
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Thanks Tandemrotor.
I don't think the vast majority of us would want any more than that, and clearly the grandad rights are potentially tricky - but surely solvable between people of goodwill. I know not all the CFE skippers retained commands, and obviously not all of us may. Probably only existing regional commands would be applicable, and as someone said, senior FOs with us would probably lose out to some mainline FOs in the bidding. Its never one way, you win some bits, you lose some, but overall, CX have far more to gain than lose in pure career options in the long term for most of us. OK, some senior prop Capts would lose out too. However that would be a small price to pay for the security of being part of the BA BALPA community - and no disrespect for our CC either. Its just as Stalin said though - "How many divisions has the pope"? and we are badly outgunned by our management at present.
One can but hope.
I don't think the vast majority of us would want any more than that, and clearly the grandad rights are potentially tricky - but surely solvable between people of goodwill. I know not all the CFE skippers retained commands, and obviously not all of us may. Probably only existing regional commands would be applicable, and as someone said, senior FOs with us would probably lose out to some mainline FOs in the bidding. Its never one way, you win some bits, you lose some, but overall, CX have far more to gain than lose in pure career options in the long term for most of us. OK, some senior prop Capts would lose out too. However that would be a small price to pay for the security of being part of the BA BALPA community - and no disrespect for our CC either. Its just as Stalin said though - "How many divisions has the pope"? and we are badly outgunned by our management at present.
One can but hope.
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Of course, if some of you guys were to forsake Golden Runways in favour of the overworked but small and friendly West Sussex base, you would find that totty really did abound! 
Most of the 'new blood' is ex-CFE of course but there are some crackers who were already there!
Not that I ever get near any mind you!
... Unless you count spending money on them in the Bar that is... (Even bigger ).
As for those who are a little less youthful, many of the ex-Dan pursers still have a twinkle in their eyes... I bet they were a riot 20 years ago! :tounge hanging out smiley:
Going back to BACX, my informed source from the BACXCC tells me that it was BA management who scuppered the previous 'integration' plans, rather than any specific failure to agree terms between the two BALPA groups. My understanding is that BA only wanted the Jet pilots involved in the deal, but the BACXCC stood up for their turboprop brothers and with an 'all or nothing' stance. Hence, they are where they are now, with most of the the Jetstream pilots working for Eastern Airways! I suspect that BA knew they were getting shot of the J41 fleet and wanted to delay the 'integration' until after the sale to Eastern. This could explain why it is (rumoured to be) back on the agenda again. That last bit is just my two pennorth guess, you understand.
Most of the 'new blood' is ex-CFE of course but there are some crackers who were already there!Not that I ever get near any mind you!
... Unless you count spending money on them in the Bar that is... (Even bigger ).As for those who are a little less youthful, many of the ex-Dan pursers still have a twinkle in their eyes... I bet they were a riot 20 years ago! :tounge hanging out smiley:
Going back to BACX, my informed source from the BACXCC tells me that it was BA management who scuppered the previous 'integration' plans, rather than any specific failure to agree terms between the two BALPA groups. My understanding is that BA only wanted the Jet pilots involved in the deal, but the BACXCC stood up for their turboprop brothers and with an 'all or nothing' stance. Hence, they are where they are now, with most of the the Jetstream pilots working for Eastern Airways! I suspect that BA knew they were getting shot of the J41 fleet and wanted to delay the 'integration' until after the sale to Eastern. This could explain why it is (rumoured to be) back on the agenda again. That last bit is just my two pennorth guess, you understand.
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Here is the informed view.
In principle BA have agreed that should there be an excess of pilots in BACX then assuming that mainline were recruiting and that the BA secondees flying the RJ in BHX had no desire to return to Heathrow, that Pilots in BACX will be allowed to apply for mainline jobs.
However any selection will be done on a seniority basis and not the automatic selection of the particular pilots deemed surplus to requirements. Potential candidates will have to pass the BA selection process but will not have to undertake the sim ride.
All pilots taken on will be as 1st year pilots on the relevant payscale and more than likely employed on the shorthaul fleet.
Thats it in a nutshell and any other versions reported here are incorrect.
In principle BA have agreed that should there be an excess of pilots in BACX then assuming that mainline were recruiting and that the BA secondees flying the RJ in BHX had no desire to return to Heathrow, that Pilots in BACX will be allowed to apply for mainline jobs.
However any selection will be done on a seniority basis and not the automatic selection of the particular pilots deemed surplus to requirements. Potential candidates will have to pass the BA selection process but will not have to undertake the sim ride.
All pilots taken on will be as 1st year pilots on the relevant payscale and more than likely employed on the shorthaul fleet.
Thats it in a nutshell and any other versions reported here are incorrect.
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Here is another informed view - without any union claptrap.
As far as I understand it, BA and BACX are seperate legal entities or companies. Hence, seperate AOCs, pension schemes, T and Cs and the like. BA could become bankrupt without bringing BACX down, or vice versa!
Surely then, those who wish to join BA may apply for positions that are available, irrespective of their present employer, just like dear old ETOPS did when Manx was an airline in its own right.
The fact that both airlines, BA and BACX, ultimately have the same ownership is of no legal significance here. I think that it follows that there would be something called a tort in effect if Big BA excluded BACX pilots from appling for available jobs in BA if and when they start recruiting.
It's a free world mateys and you do not need to abide by any artificial restrictions placed on your employment by either your employer, potential employer or union.
Of course, there is a real world out there. Being shafted in your aspirations by any cosy arrangement made between BACX pilot management, a BA secondee don't forget, BA and/or the union would be a real pi55er wouldn't it?
Any legal mind out there care to comment or, indeed, anyone care to give it a run?
As far as I understand it, BA and BACX are seperate legal entities or companies. Hence, seperate AOCs, pension schemes, T and Cs and the like. BA could become bankrupt without bringing BACX down, or vice versa!
Surely then, those who wish to join BA may apply for positions that are available, irrespective of their present employer, just like dear old ETOPS did when Manx was an airline in its own right.
The fact that both airlines, BA and BACX, ultimately have the same ownership is of no legal significance here. I think that it follows that there would be something called a tort in effect if Big BA excluded BACX pilots from appling for available jobs in BA if and when they start recruiting.
It's a free world mateys and you do not need to abide by any artificial restrictions placed on your employment by either your employer, potential employer or union.
Of course, there is a real world out there. Being shafted in your aspirations by any cosy arrangement made between BACX pilot management, a BA secondee don't forget, BA and/or the union would be a real pi55er wouldn't it?
Any legal mind out there care to comment or, indeed, anyone care to give it a run?
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Could somebody shed some light on what oscarH has had to say? I should dearly like to have the opportunity to move to BA Mainline, the benefits of which would be obvious. Can the Company (s) BALPA etc. stitch us up? are we tainted for having been employed by BACX?
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I would love to have the chance to move to mainline too. Maybe it will happen, maybe not, maybe it would be similar to moving from the ER to the Intensive Care ward, who knows.
Only thing for sure is that our management ( a complimentary and VERY nominal term you appreciate) has its strings pulled by mainline. Hence you can depend that our combination of in-house managers have their priorities set on getting mainline contracts (most of all our CPtech) and our mainline imports have both already tried to rebid into other mainline positions (AM) or similar. Our main man has probably sussed he is with us sink or swim, but HE has a golden parachute back into mainline.
Bottom line - anyone's guess, but I would bet my redundancy money (ha ha what a paltry sum) on the whole lot reducing to a rump of MAN/BHX, and no mainline options.
Think of what you would most like to happen, think of the most uninspired, octogenarian led cockup, and you have where we will be come mid next year. Laugh, I could write a book about this lot.
Only thing for sure is that our management ( a complimentary and VERY nominal term you appreciate) has its strings pulled by mainline. Hence you can depend that our combination of in-house managers have their priorities set on getting mainline contracts (most of all our CPtech) and our mainline imports have both already tried to rebid into other mainline positions (AM) or similar. Our main man has probably sussed he is with us sink or swim, but HE has a golden parachute back into mainline.
Bottom line - anyone's guess, but I would bet my redundancy money (ha ha what a paltry sum) on the whole lot reducing to a rump of MAN/BHX, and no mainline options.
Think of what you would most like to happen, think of the most uninspired, octogenarian led cockup, and you have where we will be come mid next year. Laugh, I could write a book about this lot.
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Rider of the Purple Sage
With all due respect if you are indeed an employee of BACX may I suggest that you stop upsetting yourself with all the conspiratorial theories of what is and isn't going on inside BACX management and their plans for their future careers.
If you or your colleagues had bothered turning up for recent forums at Man and Bhx ( I believe 12 at Man and 8 at Bhx ) than you could have directed your questions at the management concerned, you would have also learned that as from this week the management will have not have as you put it 'their strings pulled from mainline management', as they are to be given a much more autonomous role in running BACX. In my opinion if you are not prepared to turn up or direct your concerns personally to the individuals concerned then don't whinge and moan and postulate theories which are generally inaccurate on an anonymous forum.
The truth is that if you want to apply for a mainline position then you are free to do so but then if you are going to get a possible headstart before outside applicants why bother, nobody in BACX can stop you applying and if you really think your application will be disadvantaged because you are already an employee of BACX may I suggest that you check for bugging devices, hidden camera in your flight bag and strangers keeping watch on your person. With this amount of paranoia maybe you should consider another career.
The other very obvious truth if indeed you had attended a forum is that BA mainline still has a long way to go before they recover to pre 9/11, with more changes ahead for their flightdeck as with a great deal of other airlines in the UK. To that end if you are getting reasonably well paid and are some way up a seniority list then may I suggest unless you have a great desire to fly some other piece of machinery and lets face it whatever you or I end up flying the same problems, moans and whinges exist in every other airline, that you stay put and attempt like the rest of us to do our bit and turn BACX around into a profitable airline that has got a good future ahead with the addition of new equipment possibly within the next 2/3 years.
I apologise to all and sundry for this diatribe and here I hastily point out that I am not management, I am personally fed up with the continual sniping at management, CPs etc etc. I too have moaned and whinged like you but if your not prepared to do this directly to the individuals concerned via personal e-mail, telephone, company intranet site or at the forums when they are held then don't do it here, they are all big boys and can handle personal criticism as long as it done in such a way as not to score points and to be personally vindictive.
Lets stop the moaning, the BA mainline has more than we do attitude, the world or BA/BACX do not owe us a living or a L/R seat in a B747. Let us get back to turning both companies around then and only then will there be opportunities for all.
With all due respect if you are indeed an employee of BACX may I suggest that you stop upsetting yourself with all the conspiratorial theories of what is and isn't going on inside BACX management and their plans for their future careers.
If you or your colleagues had bothered turning up for recent forums at Man and Bhx ( I believe 12 at Man and 8 at Bhx ) than you could have directed your questions at the management concerned, you would have also learned that as from this week the management will have not have as you put it 'their strings pulled from mainline management', as they are to be given a much more autonomous role in running BACX. In my opinion if you are not prepared to turn up or direct your concerns personally to the individuals concerned then don't whinge and moan and postulate theories which are generally inaccurate on an anonymous forum.
The truth is that if you want to apply for a mainline position then you are free to do so but then if you are going to get a possible headstart before outside applicants why bother, nobody in BACX can stop you applying and if you really think your application will be disadvantaged because you are already an employee of BACX may I suggest that you check for bugging devices, hidden camera in your flight bag and strangers keeping watch on your person. With this amount of paranoia maybe you should consider another career.
The other very obvious truth if indeed you had attended a forum is that BA mainline still has a long way to go before they recover to pre 9/11, with more changes ahead for their flightdeck as with a great deal of other airlines in the UK. To that end if you are getting reasonably well paid and are some way up a seniority list then may I suggest unless you have a great desire to fly some other piece of machinery and lets face it whatever you or I end up flying the same problems, moans and whinges exist in every other airline, that you stay put and attempt like the rest of us to do our bit and turn BACX around into a profitable airline that has got a good future ahead with the addition of new equipment possibly within the next 2/3 years.
I apologise to all and sundry for this diatribe and here I hastily point out that I am not management, I am personally fed up with the continual sniping at management, CPs etc etc. I too have moaned and whinged like you but if your not prepared to do this directly to the individuals concerned via personal e-mail, telephone, company intranet site or at the forums when they are held then don't do it here, they are all big boys and can handle personal criticism as long as it done in such a way as not to score points and to be personally vindictive.
Lets stop the moaning, the BA mainline has more than we do attitude, the world or BA/BACX do not owe us a living or a L/R seat in a B747. Let us get back to turning both companies around then and only then will there be opportunities for all.
Last edited by Amazon man; 8th Nov 2003 at 18:15.
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What I should of course have said in my earlier post, advocating access for BACX pilots to mainline, is....
In exchange for mainline access to positions at BHX and MAN!
Which, with the exception of the incumbants, does NOT currently exist!
Who could argue against that?
In exchange for mainline access to positions at BHX and MAN!
Which, with the exception of the incumbants, does NOT currently exist!
Who could argue against that?
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Yep, sounds good to me. All seniority list/access/scope deals have pros and cons, winners and losers. To pretend any one 'side' will get all that it wants is silly. Getting the best possible deal for the biggest majority of everybody should be the objective, with some sort of easement for those who will undoubtedly lose out. In spite of many doubts, I firmly believe the first offer to get the RJ/146 guys on the list should have gone ahead. The same argument about getting the 'foot in the door' being used now was even more relevant and advantageous then, but our CXCC couldn't see it - what an opportunity lost!!! We'd probably have everyone on the list by now, and be so much stronger collectively.Far more winners than losers whichever way you cut it.
So, how does this move to the BACC agenda, because until that is achieved, it's going nowhere?
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For chrissake Amazon Man. By all means if you are brave (or foolhardy) enough, make your points directly to our cretinous management.
However, it cannot have escaped your notice the way some of the most vocal have been affected in career progression....
Purely coincidence, I'm sure
However, I agree with ROTPS, in nearly every respect. Posting here lets off steam, and educates the industry as to just what a lot of incompetents, hypocrites, self-serving underachievers and mainline lickspittles we currently have for our guvnors.
Actually DOING anything about it.....
Not so easy, other than to congratulate and encourage our CC in every respect.
Just hope they can talk to their BA equivalents, and pull the two pilot communities closer together and on to the same seniority list.
Yep, I'm anonymous.
That's because frankly I'm not brave enough to use my real name on the company or BALPA forums (management penetrated well and truly), I have no desire to be fu#ked over any more than I already am.
Let's hope this first small step becomes a stampede.
However, it cannot have escaped your notice the way some of the most vocal have been affected in career progression....
Purely coincidence, I'm sure
However, I agree with ROTPS, in nearly every respect. Posting here lets off steam, and educates the industry as to just what a lot of incompetents, hypocrites, self-serving underachievers and mainline lickspittles we currently have for our guvnors.
Actually DOING anything about it.....
Not so easy, other than to congratulate and encourage our CC in every respect.
Just hope they can talk to their BA equivalents, and pull the two pilot communities closer together and on to the same seniority list.
Yep, I'm anonymous.
That's because frankly I'm not brave enough to use my real name on the company or BALPA forums (management penetrated well and truly), I have no desire to be fu#ked over any more than I already am. Let's hope this first small step becomes a stampede.
