Air Atlanta Made Answer For Its Methods (Merged)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: England
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air Atlanta Made Answer For Its Methods
Big things happening in a small island?!?!
Wow, after all things can really change for the better the for people of aviation. I just got the inspiring news from my buddy that one of the forefronts in “aviation slavery” namely Air Atlanta will finally be made to answer for its dark methods. Inquiry into their affairs and operation firstly made by the Icelandic pilots union, has revealed a dark picture, so dark it has now opened the eyes of the media and apparenty even of the ice-congress. And I understand this is all happening “as we speak”. Surely they have managed to grow into a big corporation but that has been done by forcing almost all their pilots to work outside a union, offering ridiculous salary and absolutely no basic benefits. Its not only money this time, but basic human rights. Sure, it must have made a few people very rich, but made a whole profession bleed at the same time by forcing the living standard of pilots down the drain. That way, they have managed to underbid projects for years and making it impossible for other companies to match their offers, companies that othervise try to take good care of their people. The evil thing is by being let to do so unhindered, AA and similar operators are shaping the worldwide landscape for future aviators. They have forced almost all pilots to work outside unions and union standards. People wanting to join unions are simply let go. And this is not only in the case of pilots. Same goes for cabin crew and engineers. And because all this madness has been allowed to go this far, new pilots not only have to cost all their type training themselves and work under those conditions, the company is now even asking for a bond by holding back a part of the paycheck, or that was the mood they were in few days back.
Apparently, Air Atlanta, the Icelandic CAA and their relationship concerning licence validations is also under the microscope by the icelandic authorities. This turn of events seems to have sparked interest of the media and I would not be surprised to see Mr. Icelandic Taxman sniffing around that operation that hires all its workforce though some shadow contractor service (owned by AA by the way) based on a no-man´s island called Nui somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
I guess those who are opposed to this turn of events are either airline management itself or pilots unfortunate enough to work outside a union, unable to speak their minds and needs. To me this turn of events its all good news. BUT...... if it is all true and Air Atlanta will be made play fair game I hope it wont be just to make it easier for other similar companies to take advantage and spread cancer into our profession but rather to give those of us pilots working under those ****ty conditions courage to rise up and make your future better. We are not talking about being rich. We will never be and thats ok. We are taking about basic rights for professionals that carry unusually high responsibilities on their shoulders every day.
I worked once for Air Atlanta and sure enough there are many nice blokes there, even the icelandic themselves. But not many...... well none now I think of, it was really happy to be there. Im glad to be far away from it all now.
Wow, after all things can really change for the better the for people of aviation. I just got the inspiring news from my buddy that one of the forefronts in “aviation slavery” namely Air Atlanta will finally be made to answer for its dark methods. Inquiry into their affairs and operation firstly made by the Icelandic pilots union, has revealed a dark picture, so dark it has now opened the eyes of the media and apparenty even of the ice-congress. And I understand this is all happening “as we speak”. Surely they have managed to grow into a big corporation but that has been done by forcing almost all their pilots to work outside a union, offering ridiculous salary and absolutely no basic benefits. Its not only money this time, but basic human rights. Sure, it must have made a few people very rich, but made a whole profession bleed at the same time by forcing the living standard of pilots down the drain. That way, they have managed to underbid projects for years and making it impossible for other companies to match their offers, companies that othervise try to take good care of their people. The evil thing is by being let to do so unhindered, AA and similar operators are shaping the worldwide landscape for future aviators. They have forced almost all pilots to work outside unions and union standards. People wanting to join unions are simply let go. And this is not only in the case of pilots. Same goes for cabin crew and engineers. And because all this madness has been allowed to go this far, new pilots not only have to cost all their type training themselves and work under those conditions, the company is now even asking for a bond by holding back a part of the paycheck, or that was the mood they were in few days back.
Apparently, Air Atlanta, the Icelandic CAA and their relationship concerning licence validations is also under the microscope by the icelandic authorities. This turn of events seems to have sparked interest of the media and I would not be surprised to see Mr. Icelandic Taxman sniffing around that operation that hires all its workforce though some shadow contractor service (owned by AA by the way) based on a no-man´s island called Nui somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
I guess those who are opposed to this turn of events are either airline management itself or pilots unfortunate enough to work outside a union, unable to speak their minds and needs. To me this turn of events its all good news. BUT...... if it is all true and Air Atlanta will be made play fair game I hope it wont be just to make it easier for other similar companies to take advantage and spread cancer into our profession but rather to give those of us pilots working under those ****ty conditions courage to rise up and make your future better. We are not talking about being rich. We will never be and thats ok. We are taking about basic rights for professionals that carry unusually high responsibilities on their shoulders every day.
I worked once for Air Atlanta and sure enough there are many nice blokes there, even the icelandic themselves. But not many...... well none now I think of, it was really happy to be there. Im glad to be far away from it all now.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes no Yes :
Air Canada would be a great place for you to work, they are a unionized Company with a bright future for guys who want top wages protected by a union.
All the best when you apply.
Air Canada would be a great place for you to work, they are a unionized Company with a bright future for guys who want top wages protected by a union.
All the best when you apply.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vortilon
My sentiments exactly! Why are people so vociferous on this site at times, that spells out to the whole world that they have an agenda and then say that they have moved on and don't care, but had a good time??
Maybe they think we were all born in a cabbage patch! Sad to see such vindictiveness and hatred. Maybe they should grow up a bit and learn to love themselves; then the world would seem a much happier place., and they may start to love others and have some fun.
First Posters are always suspect when the content of their message is damning! Must be a regular that needs to disguise true identity. What a waste of bandwidth and of no real relevance. Message is, if you don't like the deal, don't sign up for it. If you do, then don't whinge about making a bad decision.
This industry will go the way its going, no matter what how hard or loud you bleat. I'm sure 411 would agree entirely!
My sentiments exactly! Why are people so vociferous on this site at times, that spells out to the whole world that they have an agenda and then say that they have moved on and don't care, but had a good time??
Maybe they think we were all born in a cabbage patch! Sad to see such vindictiveness and hatred. Maybe they should grow up a bit and learn to love themselves; then the world would seem a much happier place., and they may start to love others and have some fun.
First Posters are always suspect when the content of their message is damning! Must be a regular that needs to disguise true identity. What a waste of bandwidth and of no real relevance. Message is, if you don't like the deal, don't sign up for it. If you do, then don't whinge about making a bad decision.
This industry will go the way its going, no matter what how hard or loud you bleat. I'm sure 411 would agree entirely!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
>>Air Canada would be a great place for you to work, they are a unionized Company with a bright future for guys who want top wages protected by a union.<<
Now, if they can just get out of bankruptcy <g>...
Now, if they can just get out of bankruptcy <g>...
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeaaaahhh ! You have no family life, you make as much money as a cashier assistant, you have to pay money upfront for various training expenditures. AA's Management is using that really sad situation certain pilots are finding themselves in to exploit them. You guys are saying you should be happy because you've signed up. What a pile of horse crap ! You've obviously got great interests in letting the system going on...
Those pilots have NO choice but to sign up. Why should they be happy ?
But pilots' working conditions is not the only aspect of AA's bad management style. Only look at MELs and others technical deviations...You'll be scared. And that's why I think the Icelandic CAA must have struck some kind of deal with AA's management to keep their eyes shut. Yeah, let's call corruption. No other civilized CAA would have kept so quiet before so much piratery.
But it sounds like the end of the game...I can't wait to see the end of the movie.
Those pilots have NO choice but to sign up. Why should they be happy ?
But pilots' working conditions is not the only aspect of AA's bad management style. Only look at MELs and others technical deviations...You'll be scared. And that's why I think the Icelandic CAA must have struck some kind of deal with AA's management to keep their eyes shut. Yeah, let's call corruption. No other civilized CAA would have kept so quiet before so much piratery.
But it sounds like the end of the game...I can't wait to see the end of the movie.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To those more vociferous members I suggest you talk to some of the old Canada 3000 and Nationair guys who work for AA. As one guy said to me ' when AA employed me the faucet was dry...not even dripping'. These guys are sharp operators but had nowhere to go and were very grateful for a job. There is always a silver lining, and trust me a lot of happy ( ish ) people there are grateful for a job when no noe else was interested.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bijave
If you can make as much money as a cashier assistant, why not go for it? You could probably work a normal shift, no night flights and go to work with a high alcholol level that nobody would be interested in. All gain from what I can see; only possible problem is do you have the skills and attributes to be a cashier assistant? If not, then sadly you're kinda stuck in a dead end carrer with no way out.
Hell, go kick that miserable careers advice officer for ever suggesting a pilot career would be any good!
If you can make as much money as a cashier assistant, why not go for it? You could probably work a normal shift, no night flights and go to work with a high alcholol level that nobody would be interested in. All gain from what I can see; only possible problem is do you have the skills and attributes to be a cashier assistant? If not, then sadly you're kinda stuck in a dead end carrer with no way out.
Hell, go kick that miserable careers advice officer for ever suggesting a pilot career would be any good!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jack the Lad,
Yes, would agree that AAI has a knack for keeping their head above water, and providing employment for those during thin times.
Some very nice folks there, and tolerant as well, as the ops structure needs getting used to...but sad to say that the very same basic mistakes are still being made, as from ten years ago, especially in the crewing/leave/hotac/salary/maintenance areas, and would also expect that the piper will have to be paid at some stage.
UK certification for the British division will make a difference, I would expect.
Yes, would agree that AAI has a knack for keeping their head above water, and providing employment for those during thin times.
Some very nice folks there, and tolerant as well, as the ops structure needs getting used to...but sad to say that the very same basic mistakes are still being made, as from ten years ago, especially in the crewing/leave/hotac/salary/maintenance areas, and would also expect that the piper will have to be paid at some stage.
UK certification for the British division will make a difference, I would expect.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over the moon
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes there are some very nice blokes there, but unfortunately for them, according to a mate the taxman has started sniffing around AAI. Which means that they will be made to hold back the 38% income tax, so it won´t be down to the individual anymore whether to pay the tax or not. 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have not heard any of these rumours stated here.
If for say you are an American an have recedence in another country you are tax exempt for the USA up to I think 80 grand usd as long as you remain away for 330 days a year.
Most of us work for another agency Direct/Ace an never go to Iceland anyway.
We are directly employed by these companies not AAI.
Dont see how they would be able to tax us.
As I said before I have heard nothing on this issue.
Yes pay an time off needs a little improvement but I do hear its coming with the new contracts.
Things always can be improved, but its a hell of alot better than it was before an is constantly changing for the better.
If for say you are an American an have recedence in another country you are tax exempt for the USA up to I think 80 grand usd as long as you remain away for 330 days a year.
Most of us work for another agency Direct/Ace an never go to Iceland anyway.
We are directly employed by these companies not AAI.
Dont see how they would be able to tax us.
As I said before I have heard nothing on this issue.
Yes pay an time off needs a little improvement but I do hear its coming with the new contracts.
Things always can be improved, but its a hell of alot better than it was before an is constantly changing for the better.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Loftie,
Wow! Quite a statement there! There is just one tiny little problem with it. I don´t think that other current or ex employees would agree with you. Admittingly Air Atlanta does have its ups and downs, especially in the operation side of things but I don´t think they deserve your statement.
I wonder who is the rude and pig headed one?
Wow! Quite a statement there! There is just one tiny little problem with it. I don´t think that other current or ex employees would agree with you. Admittingly Air Atlanta does have its ups and downs, especially in the operation side of things but I don´t think they deserve your statement.
I wonder who is the rude and pig headed one?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I could not agree more fly donkey.
I suspect that some of these guys did not make it through the training or perhaps left for some type of other problem.
Happy I dont have to fly with them an their negative attitudes.
That old saying still holds true.
If a managers name does not make it on the **** house wall then he is not doing his job.
I suspect that some of these guys did not make it through the training or perhaps left for some type of other problem.
Happy I dont have to fly with them an their negative attitudes.
That old saying still holds true.
If a managers name does not make it on the **** house wall then he is not doing his job.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Steve Leslie, Safety Editor for WINGS mag (Canada) praises AAI in his column in this month's issue (Sep/Oct '03). He took an 8-month contract through AAI to fly for Southern Winds Lineas Aereas and was evidently quite happy with it.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the kudos on the Wings article.
Mr. Yes, No, Yes sounds like he is a little bitter and twisted over something or other. However, I do agree with one of his comments. There is room for improvement at Air Atlanta. However, like most of my ex-Canada 3000 colleagues, we are quite happy to be working here. As for me, Southern Winds has been an absolutely fantastic contract. Granted, you are 10000 km away from home, but when the Canadian aviation economy is in a tailspin and there are few jobs in sight, this is a pretty damn good option.
Air Atlanta came along at a time when I was out-of-work for 16 months and the only prospect was driving a propane truck. The money here is good, but I agree the time off and benefits need improvement.
As for unions, I for one will never be part of a union again. When, Canada 3000 went out of business in 2001, ALPA abandoned us and were not there for us when we needed support. When it comes to flight safety, ALPA are very good at what they do. However, when it comes to representing your interests and standing by your side when the chips are down, they are useless. That is my opinion. And I have been there as my other colleagues have.
So, Mr. Yes, No, Yes, you make some valid points. But for me, I will take chicas, cheap food and red wine any day over the unemployment line.
For me and the rest of my colleagues, Air Atlanta has been the light at the end of the tunnel. At least for now.
The next article for Wings is just being published and it will also be about flying with Southern Winds and Air Atlanta. At the very least, I am glad to find something good to write and talk about. Better than I can say for Mr. Yes, No, Yes.
Hasta Luego,
Steve Leslie
edited to remove duplication
Mr. Yes, No, Yes sounds like he is a little bitter and twisted over something or other. However, I do agree with one of his comments. There is room for improvement at Air Atlanta. However, like most of my ex-Canada 3000 colleagues, we are quite happy to be working here. As for me, Southern Winds has been an absolutely fantastic contract. Granted, you are 10000 km away from home, but when the Canadian aviation economy is in a tailspin and there are few jobs in sight, this is a pretty damn good option.
Air Atlanta came along at a time when I was out-of-work for 16 months and the only prospect was driving a propane truck. The money here is good, but I agree the time off and benefits need improvement.
As for unions, I for one will never be part of a union again. When, Canada 3000 went out of business in 2001, ALPA abandoned us and were not there for us when we needed support. When it comes to flight safety, ALPA are very good at what they do. However, when it comes to representing your interests and standing by your side when the chips are down, they are useless. That is my opinion. And I have been there as my other colleagues have.
So, Mr. Yes, No, Yes, you make some valid points. But for me, I will take chicas, cheap food and red wine any day over the unemployment line.
For me and the rest of my colleagues, Air Atlanta has been the light at the end of the tunnel. At least for now.
The next article for Wings is just being published and it will also be about flying with Southern Winds and Air Atlanta. At the very least, I am glad to find something good to write and talk about. Better than I can say for Mr. Yes, No, Yes.
Hasta Luego,
Steve Leslie
edited to remove duplication
Last edited by Steve Leslie; 21st Oct 2003 at 21:49.