Boeing's going nut ?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: france
Boeing's going nut ?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Skagness on the beach
It shows just how stupid Boeing management is by globalizing the 7E7. Helping foreign companies learn how to build a revolutionary airplane so they can turn around and help Airbus do it is insanity. 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 553
Likes: 3
From: ex EGNM, now NZRO
Boeing going nuts???
Boeing [NYSE:BA] will dramatically reduce the time to move components of its new 7E7 passenger plane to final assembly from suppliers by adopting air transportation as its primary method of parts delivery
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 0
From: 39N 77W
Boeing has had major subassemblies built overseas for years. Look at where 777 assemblies originate.
This is partly to share the financial risk. Boeing has to please its bankers, which further limits the depth of its pockets.
This is partly to share the financial risk. Boeing has to please its bankers, which further limits the depth of its pockets.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 613
Likes: 1
From: sussex
Its not suprising.
When they thought of the Sonic cruiser, it was dead in the water before it even hit the drawing board.Boeing used to have the edge in innovative thinking but not anymore,now the 707
that was ahead of its time !
When they thought of the Sonic cruiser, it was dead in the water before it even hit the drawing board.Boeing used to have the edge in innovative thinking but not anymore,now the 707
that was ahead of its time !
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
I disagree.
By comitting to the A380 airbus is building just another aircraft, but bigger, in a market where no-one was really screaming for such an aircraft. Don't get me wrong, it will fly and it will sell, but in numbers to make it profitable? By sticking with it's "one flight deck fits all" policy, Airbus is actually commiting all it's furture aircraft to 80's compatible technology.
Now look at the 7E7. THIS is a cutting edge technology aircraft. Composite airframe, no bleed engines, 8500NM range at 30% cut in DOCs.
It may not be bigger or faster, just potentially much more profitable.
If you were an airline exec, which would YOU prefer?
By comitting to the A380 airbus is building just another aircraft, but bigger, in a market where no-one was really screaming for such an aircraft. Don't get me wrong, it will fly and it will sell, but in numbers to make it profitable? By sticking with it's "one flight deck fits all" policy, Airbus is actually commiting all it's furture aircraft to 80's compatible technology.
Now look at the 7E7. THIS is a cutting edge technology aircraft. Composite airframe, no bleed engines, 8500NM range at 30% cut in DOCs.
It may not be bigger or faster, just potentially much more profitable.
If you were an airline exec, which would YOU prefer?
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
From: Fantasy Island
By sticking with it's "one flight deck fits all" policy, Airbus is actually commiting all it's furture aircraft to 80's compatible technology.
But commonality doesn't exclude innovation. It's as much about the way systems work as what the cockpit actually looks like.
Pray, how can you say that this (A380 cockpit) is 80s technology?
It may look similar to this (A340) but rest assured it's right up to date.
Also, the A380 will make extensive use of new materials in construction (including an increased use of GLARE than previously planned).
The big problem with the 7E7 is that most of the op. cost improvements come from the engine technologies. Now, engine manufacturers are not going to torpedo potentially 50% of their sales by exclusivising this technology to Boeing, so what's to stop Airbus hanging these new engines off an A330 (already a highly efficient airframe). Bang goes Boeing's advantage........
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: MAN/Wherever
Wizofoz, you talk utter bo*****s!!
"By comitting to the A380 airbus is building just another aircraft, but bigger, in a market where no-one was really screaming for such an aircraft. Don't get me wrong, it will fly and it will sell, but in numbers to make it profitable? By sticking with it's "one flight deck fits all" policy, Airbus is actually commiting all it's furture aircraft to 80's compatible technology.
Now look at the 7E7. THIS is a cutting edge technology aircraft. Composite airframe, no bleed engines, 8500NM range at 30% cut in DOCs."
Nobody wants the A380? Is that why its selling worldwide?
Thats a brilliant statement!! Sticking with a one flight deck policy is the wrong way to go!! I think you mean that you are pissed off that Boeing didnt think of it!! Better sticking to 80's compatible technology that 60's technology............Take yourself off down to an American truck dealer and have a look inside their wagons.They look great from the outside but sit yourself inside one and have a look around at the awful ergonomics straight from the 50's!! Is that how Boeing build their aircraft?
Also just take a look around you in the street, funny isnt it how all american cars these days look very european!! But look under the surface at the awful finish, bolts sticking out ready to pierce your scalp if you happen to stick your head in the boot/trunk like I almost did!! Wouldnt get that on a euro car!!
Lets face it, Boeing is a dead duck! Oh how it showed itself up announcing the Sonic Cruiser, basically throwing its dummy out of the pram because it was usurped by Airbus.Is the 7E7 going to go the same way as Sonic?? Cutting edge technology eh? Composites eh? I wonder...........who was using composites first before Boeing had even heard of them??
Boeing really need the 7E7 to work because there current products are not wanted any more are they? The 757 about to disappear, the 753 was a really good seller! The 747's drying up, they are getting desperate offering a 717-300!! How about that for 60's technology!! I think I'll shut up now!! I just get sick and tired of all the homophobia on here!
"By comitting to the A380 airbus is building just another aircraft, but bigger, in a market where no-one was really screaming for such an aircraft. Don't get me wrong, it will fly and it will sell, but in numbers to make it profitable? By sticking with it's "one flight deck fits all" policy, Airbus is actually commiting all it's furture aircraft to 80's compatible technology.
Now look at the 7E7. THIS is a cutting edge technology aircraft. Composite airframe, no bleed engines, 8500NM range at 30% cut in DOCs."
Nobody wants the A380? Is that why its selling worldwide?
Thats a brilliant statement!! Sticking with a one flight deck policy is the wrong way to go!! I think you mean that you are pissed off that Boeing didnt think of it!! Better sticking to 80's compatible technology that 60's technology............Take yourself off down to an American truck dealer and have a look inside their wagons.They look great from the outside but sit yourself inside one and have a look around at the awful ergonomics straight from the 50's!! Is that how Boeing build their aircraft?
Also just take a look around you in the street, funny isnt it how all american cars these days look very european!! But look under the surface at the awful finish, bolts sticking out ready to pierce your scalp if you happen to stick your head in the boot/trunk like I almost did!! Wouldnt get that on a euro car!!
Lets face it, Boeing is a dead duck! Oh how it showed itself up announcing the Sonic Cruiser, basically throwing its dummy out of the pram because it was usurped by Airbus.Is the 7E7 going to go the same way as Sonic?? Cutting edge technology eh? Composites eh? I wonder...........who was using composites first before Boeing had even heard of them??
Boeing really need the 7E7 to work because there current products are not wanted any more are they? The 757 about to disappear, the 753 was a really good seller! The 747's drying up, they are getting desperate offering a 717-300!! How about that for 60's technology!! I think I'll shut up now!! I just get sick and tired of all the homophobia on here!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
ERR...
Just wondering if anyone thinks I actually owe superspotter a reply to his insulting, rude and pointless rant, or is not liking HumVees somehow equating to Boeings being rubbish stupid enough to shoot itself in the foot?
Just wondering if anyone thinks I actually owe superspotter a reply to his insulting, rude and pointless rant, or is not liking HumVees somehow equating to Boeings being rubbish stupid enough to shoot itself in the foot?
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Skagness on the beach
Wizofoz,
I hate to be the one to tell you, but the 7E7 still has a huge chance that it will become a phantom and never see the light of day. I have my issues with the A380 as well and do not think it will be a profitable aircraft for 15-20 years, the 747-400 Special Freighter will see to that(you could get 4 of those for the price of 1 A380).
Now to the "innovations" on the 7E7....... All composite airframe, uggh, just ask the Starship people how smart that is. Even now the FAA has real issues convincing themselves their and Boeing's long range failure prediction techniques is sound. We could easily end up producing an airplane that is a throw away 10 years from now. Worse yet, we build the equivelent of square windows and have a few hull failures in flight and bye bye company in these days of litigation.
Bleedless engines.......are nothing new. GE been doing that for years.
A380 will set records in many ways. It will be a great package freighter. It will suck as an outsized freight hauler because you will cube out before you cum out. I have said this before, but I believe the A380 will also, if it passes PAX evac, set a record for the most people killed after the crash and may be the first aircraft that kills several people during one incident where they deploy the slides for a minor reason and the people on the upper deck pile on top of each other at 30 miles per hour.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but the 7E7 still has a huge chance that it will become a phantom and never see the light of day. I have my issues with the A380 as well and do not think it will be a profitable aircraft for 15-20 years, the 747-400 Special Freighter will see to that(you could get 4 of those for the price of 1 A380).
Now to the "innovations" on the 7E7....... All composite airframe, uggh, just ask the Starship people how smart that is. Even now the FAA has real issues convincing themselves their and Boeing's long range failure prediction techniques is sound. We could easily end up producing an airplane that is a throw away 10 years from now. Worse yet, we build the equivelent of square windows and have a few hull failures in flight and bye bye company in these days of litigation.
Bleedless engines.......are nothing new. GE been doing that for years.
A380 will set records in many ways. It will be a great package freighter. It will suck as an outsized freight hauler because you will cube out before you cum out. I have said this before, but I believe the A380 will also, if it passes PAX evac, set a record for the most people killed after the crash and may be the first aircraft that kills several people during one incident where they deploy the slides for a minor reason and the people on the upper deck pile on top of each other at 30 miles per hour.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
super spotter, read 747FOCALs reply and learn how to carry on a civilised debate whilst not sounding like a prat.
747, it may well be as you say, though knowledge of composites has come a long way since the Starship. Indeed rayethon has stated the the starship was worth it for the leasons learned and now applied on the Premier 1 and Hawker Horizon, both all-composite fuselages and certified.
I agree that the 7E7 (will it be the 787 do you think?) is risky, simply because it IS cutting edge. As such, though, my tip is that if it works it will put Boeing firmly in front of the race (not that it was ever anywhere else IMHO!).
747, it may well be as you say, though knowledge of composites has come a long way since the Starship. Indeed rayethon has stated the the starship was worth it for the leasons learned and now applied on the Premier 1 and Hawker Horizon, both all-composite fuselages and certified.
I agree that the 7E7 (will it be the 787 do you think?) is risky, simply because it IS cutting edge. As such, though, my tip is that if it works it will put Boeing firmly in front of the race (not that it was ever anywhere else IMHO!).
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Skagness on the beach
Wizofoz,
Thanks for the props(as he tips his hat). I think you have read some of what I have with your comments about Raytheon and their lessons learned.
One thing that we should add though is the fact that the Premier 1 and the Hawker have metallic wings and the 7E7 is proposed to have composite wings and nacelles. Ask Southwest what they thought of their composite nacelles on the 737.
I really think you need some metal(at least the main spar) in a wing until our prediction capabilities mature. 
You are correct though, if Boeing pulls it off, the 7e7 will be the new tentpole.
Thanks for the props(as he tips his hat). I think you have read some of what I have with your comments about Raytheon and their lessons learned.
One thing that we should add though is the fact that the Premier 1 and the Hawker have metallic wings and the 7E7 is proposed to have composite wings and nacelles. Ask Southwest what they thought of their composite nacelles on the 737.
I really think you need some metal(at least the main spar) in a wing until our prediction capabilities mature. You are correct though, if Boeing pulls it off, the 7e7 will be the new tentpole.
I'matightbastard
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Wasn't that tail that fell off the 767 over Queens a composite tail?
I mean I know it's because the FO was practising his Arthur Murray dance routine on the rudders and they'll probably never listen to 1940s big band music, so there won't be any hand jive on the ailerons and it'll probably be ok.
Now THAT's talking b0ll0cks.
Still, the tail WAS a composite right?
I mean I know it's because the FO was practising his Arthur Murray dance routine on the rudders and they'll probably never listen to 1940s big band music, so there won't be any hand jive on the ailerons and it'll probably be ok.
Now THAT's talking b0ll0cks.
Still, the tail WAS a composite right?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
From: the edge of madness
Wizofoz- just because the displays look similar doesn't mean they are. The A380 will have very lightweight, low power, low heat, thin flat panel lcd displays showing similar, standard, symbology to the CRT displays in earlier family members. When a new format standard is agreed (if ever) it can easily loaded onto any family member. That way the aircraft flight decks will remain pretty much up to date.
And as for crew commonality, Boeing is talking about a differences course between the 7E7 and the 777 of about the same duration as between the A320 and A340.
And as for crew commonality, Boeing is talking about a differences course between the 7E7 and the 777 of about the same duration as between the A320 and A340.