Big Mike - PM me with your snail address - I've got loads of stuff like that and I'll send u a CD

Phil

Thanks Phil, you have a PM

Noisey British Apache, are they all the same?
 

Seasons greetings to all Rotorheads,

I have posted before on the footprint of certain Helis, but was supprised on Thursday of last week when I picked up the unmistakable throb of some sort of approaching Heli, I had a friend with me(non flyer) who also heard this I commented that it sounded pretty powerful and could be a three of four blade sysem making the increasingly loud noise, I told my pal where to look in the sky to see the arrival of this noisey beast , I checked my watch for some other reason but was supprised three miniutes later to see the Apache at about 150 ft fly into our view in the sky position I had indicated to my friend, on its own that really is no big deal.........

But if these type of Helis are capable of being detected like this with the Human ear, surely this would give some sort of time advantage to insurgents to get the old RPGs ready to have a go, any thought from others with more active experience?

Many regards

Vfr

I can't imagine it took three minutes to reach you from first hearing. Perhaps it was manouvering hard in tight circles, in the direction you heard the noise from, and in the last 30s headed in your direction? That would account for why it was making that level of noise for so long.

They've been cruising past over Ipswich for several months now and the noise is not exceptional - though it's not EC135/MD902 quiet.

Post above now edited.

Heliport

Sound was used to detect aircraft in WWII and no reason why it does not work today as well.

Hi Peter, long time, no post.

Are you sure it was approaching from a distance, and not slowly from
half a mile or so? Compared to a Lynx or Chinook, they are
positively quiet.

3 more Apache pilots resign
 

Rumour at Shawbury is 3 experienced Apache pilots have resigned.

Is life that bad in the apache world or were these 3 at a natural break point?

will there be slots for more exchanges? I know the NAvy have one, isn't it time the RAF got a look in?

or looking at the exit numbers should i stay away?

Crab Beefer, stay away!

I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three! I am curious about the sincerity of your post.
Are you one of a growing number who like a good old verbal bashing about the Army Apache program?
As a "crab beefer" I assume (might be wrong, I have been wrong before) you a RAF helicopter pilot and QHI, therefore failed fast jet maybe, with a burning desire to something more than just ash and trash.
Bullied at Red 850 by Lynx 5 in the past maybe? To be honest I don't really care.

The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have, but not all, and I think you'll find they could all be staying within the Apache program, just as civvies, all of them are at points in there service where it is natural to leave if a better offer comes along.

Why is it the Apache makes the headlines everytime somebody on the program has a good sh1t? Life in the Apache world isn’t bad, there are challenges sure, but what part of the armed forces doesn’t have any challenges right now.

Oh one more thing, the Royal Navy have 2 current Apache pilots to at the moment, one is a QHI who got us all onto and off HMS Ocean without incident. The Royal Navy added to the Attack Helicopter budget when they decided not to buy a Lynx TOW replacement, which is why one of the Attack Aviation Squadrons has a Maritime role. No need for any Crabs thank you!

AHQHI656SQN

Strewth! You should have gone into Air Defence with a defensive attitude like that!

It seemed like a genuine enough question to me so why fly straight off the collective?

Sounds like a very sensitive spot was touched there......

But you said "I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three!"

Followed by "The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have"

Make up your mind! :rolleyes:

ST, the bottom line is, why does it matter that 3 or more Apache pilots have resigned, how many Puma pilots, or Chinook pilots have resigned? No news really.
A lot more than 3 Apache pilots have resigned, some very senior, some not so senior, every one of em for better offers. As my memory serves me about 11 so far.
Not attitude at all, just miffed every time I someone post a disingenuous thread on here about Apache. Really what does it matter to crab beefer that 3 Apache pilots have resigned? He's nothing to do with Apache, nor could he be. There is more impact on me and those flying the Apache at the moment yet none of us put the post up. We are the ones who have to carry on doing the job, and there are few enough of us as it is.

Merry Christmas.

Tom, maybe it would be better if the crabs had Apache eh?
Cos look at how well they keep hold of the Tornado and Harrier and Hercules and Tristar and Chinook and Puma pilots. None of them leave do they? :ok:

Merry Christmas mate.

Maybe CB was simply fishing and AHQHI took the bait.

I do feel sorry for the Apache mates. As any military person will know, there is not a single piece of equipment, from the humble sock to the super-snazzy jet fighter, that has worked as advertised at any stage of its time in service.

You may correct me if I am wrong.

Jerrycan :ok:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't saying 'don't slag off the Apache" a bit like saying "don't call me Ginger"? Glad to see it still works though.

2's in, who's slagging the Apache?
The aircraft is fantastic, I would't want to go into battle dressed in anything else.
As for being Ginger.....

What goes around...
 

We nicked the design for the jerrycan in 1941 from... the Jerries (the clue is in the name).

:D

IIRC, the Spitfire had teething troubles pre-war, the 4 engined Lancaster only came into being because the 2 engined Manchester was a right 'horlicks', Kestrel / Harrier also had a long and difficult birth.

Goes with the territory for any major change programme. All four major change elements need to be sorted:

People
Organisation
Technology
Information

From the outside, AH within 16 AA Bde seems to be a readily deployable asset. We'll find out soon enough next year, I'm sure.

I'd be happy to fly Apache :cool:

But did all the other bits of kit to come into service with 'teething problems' have a bunch of humourless, soft skinned drippers at the helm?

:rolleyes:

Wow..:eek:

All I wanted to know was should I ask to do an exchange tour. I have subsequently been told that there are 4 Apache QHIs resigned amongst others including some Apache pilots in staff jobs. I would be happy doing a line shag slot but would be equally keen to fill a QHI slot.

Having said all that I am now worried as I have obviuosly have hit a bit of a nerve. Glad the RN doing well, I do like to think the RAF would be able to impart something to the development of this great aircraft, maybe you disagree.:confused: :rolleyes:

Crab Beefer, you havent exactly hit a raw nerve, so one person bites, not surprisingly as you lot continually bait such people. Im sure AHQHI is feeling a little bit miffed after countless bouts of said sarcasm. But his bite doesnt constitute a landslide vitory against AH does it?

I agree with you however that maybe an exchange RAF Pilot might be worthwhile, but will you find an NCO Pilot!

Happy Christmas

Muttley out

Arctic socks, can't beat them. The roll mat has never let me down either. In fact the only thing that has let me down is my own expectations of kit as it is introduced.
(Is that irony, sarcacm, satire or wit? Please could an educated person advise. Crab Beefer perhaps?)

I am sure the RAF would add to the apache program.

Should he be FJ or rotary?

CB - as SQHI656 says of those that are going, some will stay linked to the program so no huge loss.

Suggest you speak to your manning branch and put in a request to do exchange.

All us blue-jobs would love a go of the Apache - Very capable and, it has to be said, cool as !!!!. I'm sure with our limited experience of helo ops and weapon delivery, we could through hard work and sending only the very best candidates, contribute in some small way. It would appear that we need to work on our bitterness and bait-taking abilities though, since this is obviously part of the job....





Just kidding, chaps - put down your dark visors and go and impress some girls and have a happy christmas too!

SarMonkey,

Now now my dear chap - no need to add to add to the melee! Although it grieves me to admit, Front Seater is actually right - and although a humble civvie I know that us light blue bretheren have not actually got anything endorsed by our airships and so what do they (Air Component) actually want Apache to do for us?

We have not included or requested them in any JFACC orbat, where as the JFMCC and JFLCC have and have the associated endorsed doctrine to back it up.

As you well know in a cash strapped MoD, unless it is endorsed there is no requirement, no requirement then no funding and with out funding there is no capability. All of the TLT, SAXON SHIELD, WICKHAM WARRIOR stuff is all done by mates, for mates through the back door and not through any ATO/ATM tasking from a CAOC.

So it has absolutely nothing to do with experience in helo ops or weapon delivery skills - as although I am sure there is experience out there it appears that the Pongos are doing a pretty good job at training their own QWIs and Weapon Instructors. As to the remainder of the Air Component stuff, again just before I left I observed the AH EAGLE STRIKE exercise where it was pleasing to see the brown jobs fully up to speed on COMAO, FRA, DCA, OCA blah blah and more to the point willing to listen to the SH guys during the planning process - now that is a step change from the old Army way of doing business!

And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.

But as I have always said on numerous occasions, in this resource and cash strapped MoD lets stop party politicking for individual Service gains and why not just accept the inevitable and stop faffing and having a protracted cuffuffle and go Joint - properly and not in the half baked attempt that it currently is.

To add to the growing list, how about those 'mini doss bags' that were/are brilliant in Norway?


What is the future of the various AAC TA units?
Is it true that they are the 'safest' TA unit to be a part of, bearing in mind present TA deployments?

Just wondered!
;)
SS

7 Regt is safe as houses and picking up a lot of the admin tasking and 6 Regt AAC (TA) has/is just forming as a ground AH support Regt based out of Bury St Edmunds.

HEDP

It's been said before, but will bear saying again. Like any new bit of kit, there is a honeymoon period, followed by a reality check.

When the Scout came into service, contrary to urban myth, it was such a piece of Sh1t, that the light-blue jobs bought Alouette 2 off the shelf so that they had something to fly. Much, much later was the old brussel sprout considered the landrover of the skies - and even then it was rumoured that on completion of a Scout AH1 conversion the successful candidate filled in a Green Endorsement but left the date blank - it was not a case of if, but when, the mighty Nimbus would fail...

The Apache is a mighty piece of kit, and is currently operated by the leading experts (at least in Europe), at direct-fire weapons from rotary aircraft. Let us hope that they do not continue to leach manpower of the quality that they seem content to do so. Several very fine young men indeed appear to have just had enough, including one Sandhurst Sword of Honour Winner (how's the sword case JVB). The other two that I know of are also a huge loss to a fine Corps.

Compo can opener. An excellent piece of kit, still use one at home.

Indeed - that compo can widger was an engineering masterpiece! One of the few military things which actually did what it was supposed to.

As did the old 'gorilla snot' glue for joining maps together.

Aah, Gorilla Snot.

Many happy memories of being high as a kite on completion of my Munster LFA map!

Wiz:D

Aytoo, the Sandhurst Sword of Honour Winner that you speak of hasn't had enough of the Apache, I hear it's the thought of no more Apache flying that he's not happy with. Indeed it's the same old Army Air Corps Officer career profile that a lot of bright young Army Officers have to come to terms with, or leave the Corps. I dare say that for the first time this profile is coming to bite the AAC on the @rse. It now takes too long to train a replacement Apache Flight Commander, to the point that Apache CTT (already pushed to the limit) won't be able to keep the numbers of Apache pilots up to the required quantity! At a time when the requirement is for the number of pilots to increase, it makes no sense to remove pilots from a flying role at a time when this fledgling pragram is trying to grow.

Good point about YOs leaving due to career path restrictions.

Are these 3 leaving all officer Apache pilots?
Are they all QHIs?
I am told it is more than 3? (4 from Dishforth and 3 from Wallop)??which doesn't seem like many to me but when it is out of a small number I guess it does make a difference.

I thought the PA spine was designed to keep these guys in? or does the AAC army career path still come first?
I genuinelly hope the AAC doesn't blow Apache and handit on a plate to another service who will be able to man it...

I am due to go on Apache CTT soon and am interested if I am going to get the flying I am being promised or whetehr it is more of the same but leaving me even less competent as I will have even less time to get to grips with a more complicated platform. Why won't they let us get good?:confused:

Fenestronuk, if you want to see what life in an Attack Sqn is like pop up to Dishforth if you get the chance. You could also go to 673 Sqn at Wallop, but bare in mind that they a funded by ATRA, the 673 Sqn crewroom cost more than 656 Sqns hanger!! Only joking but they are well looked after.

The program needs top quality individuals who want to fly the Apache because the Apache is what they want to fly, without that want, you'll fall by the way-side. It is hard graft, no two ways about it, and it's a long old haul, but every time you sit in the cockpit (front or rear seat) you'll grin from ear to ear and when you let rip with the M230 for the first time, your world will rock.
Give us a call on 94713 4669 and have a chat.

Merry Christmas
Tom

P.S. Not sure about who has or who hasn't resigned, but it's sure getting people talking!

Withdrawn during my last years due to "fumes in the cockpit". :(

TRF,

Looking at the timing of your post, you MAY just be excused for attempting to crowbar this thread into the traditional crab v pongo slanging match - but I doubt it! There are very serious issues being discussed here, but the ownership of said capable piece of hardware ought not to be one of them.

All right then, at your level - just how much experience has the SH force got in direct fire weapons against armour or even SSVs? Really? As much as all that?

ps - do you fly the front or the back cyclic:ok:

Apologies for drunken posting! Post duly removed.:ugh:

Can someone confirm as QHI656 states - who has resigned?

Can someone confirm the following have resigned (not including those chopped):
3 (BA, PD, SG) ex A model QHIs in USA in the early days
1 (KM) to industry
1 (TD) to Shawbury DHFS as FBH QHI
RQHI 9 Reg (MG)
Ops Offr 9 Reg (DW)
Adjt 9 Reg (RT) - not sure if he is Apache trained
Ex OC 673 Sqn (NW)
Ex SSM 673 Sqn (SW)
Rumour of RN exchange pilot (SD) too
Rumour of one member of AMTAT (CW or CE?)
Reg Flt Comd (JVB)?

This can not be good news for the program at this stage.

What I want to know is why? and what can we do about it? particularly as alot of these QHIs have a great deal of experience that we should not be loosing before we have even finished fielding Apache.

Positive proposals only but obviously appreciate the negatives will address the why question. Think broadly and yes ownership may be one solution but I doubt it.

I may be in a position to try and help.:confused:

Come on boys ... back off the gingers ... surely they get enough grief??