Underslung loads in emergency
 

Forgive the daft question, as my helo experience has mainly been limited to being an enthusiastic passenger while a cadet a longer time ago that I wish to think about.

Watching UK 'Traitors' final last night, I was surprised to see a helicopter flying around with two people suspended beneath. Not on a winch, as far as I could tell, just a fixed length of rope.It got me wondering about emergencies (and also what on earth they put in their risk assessment 😄!).
I'm pretty sure it was a twin Eurocopter, so at least the risk of an engine issue was mitigated a bit, but in the event of an emergency (it's filmed nr Inverness in Scotland, so let's say an Osprey birdstrike into one or both engines) what chance is there for the people underneath? Could a pilot/crew successfully maintain enough control to allow both danglers and occupants to survive a forced landing?

Obviously stuff like this happens in SAR too, like the Sea King at Scar Lathing. Is the procedure with a winch to just haul in and hope the winch can wind quicker than the rate of descent?

If it's a non-human underslung load, do you have the ability to just dump it? (Thinking about those helicopters that carry bag loads of rock up mountains in the Lakes to repair paths)

Actually that is a very good question for discussion.

When I began to do that kind of work the sense of responsibility for those folks dangling on the line below you gets very serious.

The simple version of our operating philosophy was their safety came first always....no question of it.

We were prepared to afford them the safest return to the ground we could....then worry about getting the aircraft down.

All my work was done in a single engine aircraft (outside winching ops) thus engine failures were considered to be the most likely problem for us.

We were have done an autorotation landing if possible assuming we were in flight.....but doing the first landing for the people on the rope....then completing the landing of the helicopter as best possible.

If we encountered other problems that might prevent that then it was figuring out how to get them the softest most survivable landing available.

An engine failure at a hover was a bit more straight forward....set the folks down then move the helicopter in a pre-briefed direction...as we flew Left Seat single pilot we tried to always move the aircraft left...and brief the folks to exit to the right of the aircraft so the combined movements granted the maximum separation.

I know that for me that kind of flying was the most stressful there was due to the concern I had for the people beneath the Helicopter as a mistake could severely injure or kill them.

Gordy as usual can speak to this as I know he has done this kind of flying. Others here have such experience I am sure and can add to this conversation.

Surf Lifesaving used to do training and had procedures for surf rescues.
Not sure if they still have.

I used to fly SAR in a twin engined helicopter (S-76, with no single engined hover performance). Immediately prior to winching we always confirmed in the final crew safety brief what actions we would take in the event of an engine failure. The plan varied because of the actual rescue situation. If winching from a hillside we tried to have an escape route to fly away from, hopefully winching anyone on the cable safely inboard, or placing them on the ground. If it was over a sea vessel it was sometimes a matter of damage limitation! The very last part of the brief was normally to remind the winch operator that it was his decision whether to cut the winch cable or not. That was because as pilots we couldn’t see the winch (on the starboard side) due to the aircraft design. The normal intention was to place any persons on the cable on the ground, move away then land….how successful all of that could be in practice was only conjecture. If the winch op didn’t fire the cable cutter and the pilot really had to, he could do so. Not to be done lightly!

As far as flying people as underslung loads is concerned, it cannot be done (at least, not in U.K.) without a CAA written permission. I know one pilot who unknowingly flew a worker in an underslung load net for a short distance and having owned up to the CAA found himself prosecuted and heavily fined.

Shy's quote: "As far as flying people as underslung loads is concerned, it cannot be done (at least, not in U.K.) without a CAA written permission. I know one pilot who unknowingly flew a worker in an underslung load net for a short distance and having owned up to the CAA found himself prosecuted and heavily fined."

One day a long time ago in the RN, with no planned flying and whilst the ship was operating alone way out at sea, I was told by my flight commander that the underslung load net was being attached to our Wessex 3 (single engine). On asking, why?, I was told that a photographer would be in the net and that I was to position the aircraft directly over the ship so that a camera with a fisheye lens could be used to take an unobstructed view of the ship, together with the all round horizon. I refused ... and was asked if I was disobeying a direct order. The flight commander ended his career as a Vice Admiral ... I got a very bad written report..

76Fan,

In the early 1980s I was flying RAF helicopters in W. Germany. One summer I was providing a week’s support for an army exercise on the North German Plain (Grenadier Guards, who were the Berlin Regiment at the time). On the final day I was told by the Major in charge that he wanted me to fly his Land Rover as an underslung load to the location of the final exercise battle “Coup de Grace” which was on a bridge. That was no problem until he said he would be sitting in the vehicle so he could view the build up from height and he would point the way to the bridge for us! I told him that I couldn’t do that on safety grounds. He replied that he intended to wear his seat belt, a helmet and goggles! My first reaction was that he was trying to wind me up, but it became obvious that he was being perfectly serious! Trying to let him down as politely as could, I advised him that from experience, Land Rovers spun round and round when underslung and that we would be able to navigate to the battle location without him pointing the way. That didn’t put him off so I advised him that in the event of an engine malfunction I’d have to jettison the Land Rover. He thought about that for about two seconds and said he’d better drive.

I never heard anything more but in any case, our Squadron Commander was very supportive of his staff so it would have gone no further - the mad Major would have been laughed out of court.

To be fair Shy... It was not the CAA that charged and fined him it was the HSE for workplace safety violations which were dumped on him as the Commander who had the ultimate responsibility. Anyone familiar with the kind of ops that were flown in those days will agree that incident could have happened to any pilot. (His employer stepped in and paid the fine).

Well it’s SPO.HEC so more of an operator approval than a permission.

OvertHawk
HSE not big fans of a just reporting culture then?
I can imagine plenty of situations where that could happen without the knowledge of the PIC. Seems a bit harsh to prosecute after owning up. Glad the employer stepped in!

Thanks for the reply SASless
Yeah, I can imagine the worry, particularly when your visibility directly underneath is restricted.
I guess a good observer/winchperson is invaluable in the event of a problem!

How difficult would a two stage autorotation be?! Even a plain vanilla one looks pretty hard. Trying to judge an arrest of the descen, at altitude, based on verbal instructions from a third party while trying to fly and manage an emergency seems nigh on impossible! Is it something that’s even possible to practise, realistically?

You have ASAP/NASA reporting equivalent in the UK ? Chance to own up with a get out of jail free card ?

Anybody ever fly shake blocks with a 500? Do you swear you never gave the ground crew a ride “on the hook”?

In Canada, single-engine Class D external load flying people at the end of a long line is done often for rescue. Yes, single engine, your EASA heads are gonna explode. My fuzzy recall is the single-engine helicopter needs chip plugs and an auto-relight system, pilot needs minimum hours (2000?) plus training. Approval from the regulator (ops spec) for Class D written into the ops manual.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d3453921.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2b04296b6.jpeg

Apart from the UK’s CHIRP program, which is meant to be confidential and de-personalised, to highlight safety issues experienced by those in the industry, it’s more or less a case of “Anything you do say may be taken down and used in court as evidence”.

Twenty odd years ago I worked in a non-aviation environment with a former pilot who had worked for the National Safety Council of Australia Victorian division (which puts it at no later than 1988 when they spectacularly imploded). He and a colleague became trapped on the ground in a bushfire situation when the wind changed. The only immediately available solution was a helicopter equipped with a cargo winch; as they were being lifted the line broke and the two of them were dropped back to the ground leaving him with ongoing injuries. This was obviously almost 40 years ago now, and in an organisation now long gone which had "interesting" issues. I can't imagine it is representative of what might be allowed to happen today.

By the way, have a google of the NSCA Victorian division if you've never heard of them; it was an extraordinary affair.

Chap suspended below an R-22 killed during crocodile egg collecting.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...09%20Final.pdf

Back in the late 60's we started doing lifts using Maguire Rigs and Ladders and down through the years the Militaries around the World have improved upon the technique and later brought in Fast Roping as an Insertion method.

Ladders very quickly were found to be useless and quite dangerous as well as slow and cumbersome.

This is a very common Military procedure these days especially for SpecOps troops.


The US Forest Service also conducts what it calls "Short Haul Operations" used to move Human External Cargo (HEC).

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/defaul...Operations.pdf

I did a trial of the RTES (rope troop extraction system) in an RAF Merlin (those were the days!) with the absolute legend Wg Cdr John Coxen (killed in the Lynx shootdown in Iraq 2006).

I remember Boscombe had flown the first trial with dummies and we did the first ‘live’ trial. We flew 6 Rocks who knew something was up and had invited their families to watch! It all went well but downwind at 1000’ in the circuit at Benson I have never wished for a flight to be over as quickly as that one, putting them back on the ground was a very delicate exercise and took quite a while to do safely.

i think it went down as a success but just too risky to be done for anything other than an emergency. As an endnote all the Rocks had a great day out apart from one, who had trapped a testicle in the harness during the initial lift and spent the next 15 minutes in severe discomfort. I have a photo somewhere I can maybe share. As for the traitors I think it was pretty silly for a tv show….ours was pretty silly too but potentially for lifesaving operations.

Yes, we do this daily in our power line operations in a Bell 407, single engine, single pilot. An observer on the aircraft would not help, we do it all VR…

Two pilots here, but one is riding along as part of our training program. These guys are being lifted to the top of an inaccessible pole.


Just headed to bed, but can elaborate more tomorrow.

Im not sure photos of swollen balls meet the pprune guidelines……

Hmmm ! - Looking at two different areas here ... underslung and winch suspended. Involved in both
Underslung both for inanimate and intended live loads were attached via the underslung load hook a device which was manufactired by Hobbies of Dereham (not necessarily the most reassuring labelling ;)
Had two occasions of inadvertent release and the 'foot stamper' method had obvious potential for problems. At Boscombe,did the initial trial flight with the six man 'jungle penetrator' , which may be what Simon K put into practice. We used the Sea King with 300' of nylon rope attached to the u/s hook and 6 dummies on the penetrator. The test schedule was vertical lift to low level, then progressive speed increments checking for stability etc. The forward flight position became increasingly to the rear well behind the tail rotor and as we reached (from memory ) 60kts-ish, the rope attachment started to develop a rotary motion which quickly combined with a sinusoidal component and, before we could take action, the 'load' went solo ! ! I understand the principle was that this was intended as a 'last ditch' recovery procedure for specialist troops in the jungle ... as I wrote at the beginning ... Hmmm !
Re, the winching process, we used 30cwt cable with (obviously) control of deployment and a built-in explosive charge for cable cutting in the event of such being essential. Trust and faith in one's fellow man was an essential ingredient for S&R crews -particularly the winchman.! ... that trust was strained somewhat with a check flight for a new navigator winch-op who decided that deploying me at 1500' en route was acceptable. ! Words and (especially) gestures quickly disabused him of the idea !
As regards engine failures, my winching experience was primarily with the Whirlwind and, thankfully, have no such experience. but it would, likely, have been a rock and hard place choice ! :sad:

That type of Human External Cargo (HEC) ops are used by various SAR operators around the world. That is especially true in territories where utility aircraft that are normally used for placing structures or equipment inch-perfect in wild or mountainous country are also used during SAR operations. It can be used to insert rescue personnel to an accident location. In at least one territory, air ambulances maintain the capability to insert a paramedic to the accident locations, where the aircraft cannot land, using this method.

However, at a number of ICAR Air Commission meetings, HEC accidents have been far too prominent a part of the proceedings. Engine failure, collision with obstruction, inadvertent IMC, and attachment mistakes all played their part.

Hoist is way easier to assure safety than heslo hec.

In case of OEI or a strong downdrought, a briefed flyaway height is the helicopter crew safety whilst the hoist operator has the call of either cut or flyaway&raise hoist, deciding for the safest option for the crew on the line. Nothing left to chance.

When possible due to lower weight or steady headwind, a “safe oei” callout is a blessing, no need to do a flyaway, just make it safe for everybody and go when possible.

Ensuring the Bubble Door latches are in very good condition properly adjusted and engaged is important.

Some surplus UH-1's that had gone forestry logging and had large bubble windows installed on the Left side of the aircraft could prove a nuisance otherwise.

The airframes did some interesting warping and shape shifting activities and it was not unusual at all for the door to pop open if you had any significant forward speed and really liked to stay open until you slowed right down.

That amount of force that could generated by the bubble shape is pretty impressive and offers one a remedial course in aerodynamics and the way lift is generated in curved wing like surfaces.

That might be more of a concern than any sort of flutter causing wake turbulence in my way of thinking about it. The Huey door is pretty big and when it stuck out at about a 45 degree angle....and not wanting to come back in...gets your attention.

Ours all have the bubble doors, and we have additional latches the are manually locked…… they break off if you open the door without unlocking them——-ask me how I know…..:bored:

There is a big hole in the bottom of the bubble to try and alleviate some of the airflow issues. The hole has a “plug” which you remove when you fly—-it is fun to put the plug in while flying and watch the attitude and subsequent speed changes when installed.

We also have the “logging seat” installed. The seat is on rails, when coming to a hover and you transition to vertical reference, one taps a “paddle” with your left elbow and lean the seat—-the whole seat rotates to the left about 30-45 degrees allowing you to keep your back in the seat. Takes a tad getting used to. I can take pictures tomorrow ifen anyone is interested.

Sometime in May`65,I was on a detached `Flight` of 225 Sqdn in NW Sarawak,1 Whirlwind,2 pilots,and about 7 g/crew,operating out of a village football field.The resident Army in the locality may have been the Argylls,or 42 Cmdo. A`runner` appeared with a message to `Scramble`,to go to an LZ(R123) and pick-up 4 SAS troopers who were`on the run`,believing they had been `compromised` by either Indonesian troops or by locals who would report to the Indos,as they were well over the Border..We had dropped the guys off in that LZ,a week before,and a usual patrol was about 10-14 days,so something was really amiss.
We loaded up,put in some more fuel,and I being the `JP` was in the back as `loady,winch-op,etc.We carried a couple of SAR rescue strops,for winching,and also a couple of rolls of `abseil tapes`, 250-300Ft long,3-4 inch wide,fabric tapes used at that time for `abseiling`,or as tape to secure fuel barrels in the aircraft.The LZ was part way up a mountain ,but was big enough to manoeuvre in,and if the troops were there it would be judged `secure`; if they weren`t,then it was a` no-go`.

All SAS patrols carried a Sarbe` beacon,and so after we had got around the mountain(which went up to 5000ft),Dick S got a signal on the homing indicator,but it didn`t line up as we approached the LZ,so we carried on until we were orbiting over/around an area about 3/4 of a mile further on,over primary jungle.Dilemma..if we hung around ,it would attract attention,from those chasing,it would take the patrol an hour at least to get to the LZ,and there maybe a `reception party ` there.Now,I dont recall if the Sarbe had a `voice` channel at that time,whether Dick used it,or not,but,we flew away,and then `homed back -in,just over the tree-tops,scaring sleeping fruit bats,and maybe an `orang-utan `or two in the process,until we came across a slightly more open area,and there was a red scarf being waved ,and 4 happy faces..!There was no way we could winch them out as we were still 200ft+agl,so we`d use the tapes,with the strops and a couple of sandbags as ballast,attached to the aircraft.
I launched them over the side and tried to get the strops clear of any swirling branches and onto the ground.
This then created a problem as 4 troops tried to get into 2 strops,but eventually,by much waving of arms,shaking of head,they began to get the message that we could only take 2 at a time ,and come back for the other 2.Eventually , we lifted the first 2 out and above the trees,and set off for a beach about 3 miles away,I misjudged our height a bit as one trooper went into the top of a tree sending it all spinning and he lost his Armalite into the forest,so we dropped them on the beach,recovered the tapes and strops,and went back,as the last pair had the Sarbe,found them,same procedure,back to the beach,a little higher this time,recovered the other 2,kit on board,and then set off for base.The trooper who had lost his gun was very pi$$ed off,as he thought he`d get CtMartial``ed,but we said to tell his Boss(P de la Billiere)that it was the Air Force` fault,not the trooper..nothing more was heard..We also explained how to fit strops properly,and to pass it on to the `others`...
This was not the first time the `long-line abseil tapes` had been used as there had been another one earlier in the year,lifting Sgt Ed Lillico out`..can be read in `Borneo Boys`,by Roger Annett...
and it wouldn`t be the last either..part2 another day...

The other pilot was Dick Symonds,a great guy,even used to go out with the troops on a `patrol` with his trusty SLR,;sadly died in the Wessex mid-air at Odiham.

Great dit Sycamore, thanks a lot.

I've done fast roping from Wessex, Lynx and Dauphin in my time and the safety of the guys on the rope is very much uppermost in your mind.

In the Lynx we would have 2 or 4 ropes out at once and one of the drills was a flyaway following a simulated engine failure - this got the troops on the ropes to 'lock off' so they didn't keep going down the rope until they fell off. Flying with 4 guys underneath focusses the mind regarding height and speed!

Fast roping is still one of the best ways of air assaulting a building - and great fun (for the pilots).

As others have mentioned earlier, winching is a variation on a theme and you would brief your actions in the event of an engine failure so the winch operator could make the decision to cut the cable (if the winchman/cas were close to the ground) or winch in at max rate to try and get them safe during the flyaway.

I thought doing HEC for a TV show was poor TEM, especially given the terrain and confined area they were deploying from. It's one thing to do it to save lives (as in the Alps) but for simple entertainment???

They may have used a twin but, as has been discussed on these pages before, there's far more that can go wrong with a helicopter than just an engine failure and in pretty much every case, the people underneath are toast.

Rocks For Bogner: Try a BAS scientist hanging to a winch strop from a Wasp in the hover close to a cliff face on a SA island. It's amazing how quickly they forget the briefing about weight limits as larger chunks of the cliff drop into a stout canvas bag.

Another tale of the `Tapes`.
At this point it may be useful for you to `google` Wiki`Operation Claret`,,and then scroll to the bottom, `External links`,Capt John Masters RNZA MC`,to give the back-ground to our operation, on 4Sept `65.
We had 2 Whirlwinds,4 pilots,, at the 2/2 Gurkha HQ in Lundu,W Sarawak in support of `OP Hell-Fire`,an op.that had been running for about 8 days across the Border. with ambushes,fire-fights,and the troops were withdrawing back from where they had started,but there were unclear `whispers` about 2 troops missing/injured,and that we may be required for a`casevac.``We` decided that we would send 1 helo,plus 2 pilots and myself ,when as a J-P(again!) as loady/winchy,leaving one aircraft plus one J-JP,at HQ as a reserve,in case we went u/s,etc.So we loaded up the SAR strops,few sandbags,a `Neil-Robertson` stretcher,fuelled-up ,ready to go..It was mid-afternoon,and clouds were building,when the Colonel appeared,complete with rifle,ammo,and `light-kit`,and `said` `,Go to Kandai`,so off we went,no further explanation,as he wasn`t on i/com.Kandai was an old LZ, that was used in support of the troops,with a 105mm pack-howitzer,and heavy mortars,brought in by Belvedere..When we arrived ,he told us that the troops had a badly wounded CSM,troops were cutting a clearing,for us to p/up the wounded and get him to hospital.He(Col.) was going to get the latest from the Signals/iNT,and `authorisation` to cross the Border for the pick-up,when the troops had a clearing sorted..So,we then considered what we would do/how we`d do `it`,whatever `it` would be..It was now late afternoon,,total cloud cover,and light rain...We knew the troops had an SAS trooper and a `Sarbe`,and that it `usually` worked,I had attached the stretcher to the tapes(2),and the aircraft with lots of knots ,,and Mick and John(pilots) had briefed the `man`i/c the LZ ,to set out lamps,and flares when /if we returned.! Suddenly the Colonel ran over,told us the clearing was done and the Sarbe was working...How far is it/direction.???...West,about ` X`k yards...?Okay,let`s go..and then he jumped on board ,hadn`t thought he was coming,as we started up,took off,turned the `homer` on`,and noted that it was now raining,the horizon,barely visible,and occasional lightning.flashes up ahead.We had climbed to about 5-600ft above `tree-top level`,and flew probably around 60 kts,to minimise noise,and then got the Sarbe `beep` and a vague heading.It was now `dark`,but the lightning helped,but the rain didn`t,The homer signal improved,so we slowly descended until we were about 100ft above the trees,and then a few`pinpricks` of lights became visible,agreeing with the homer indications..We`d arrived,but sadly ,this was not a clearing that was big enough to land in,or even get low enough to winch into ,as we crept lower and lower,until we were about level wIth the treetops,being blown about by the downwash;they blow outwards when you go down ,then close up over you..just like the `pitcher plant`..No lower,this height is okay,..as far as I can see..So,plan..B,..C? The Colonel is looking over my shoulder,so with the agreement from Mick,I send the NR stretcher down into a `black-hole` surrounded by a few torch lights.It doesn`t get tangled in the branches and reaches the ground with some `slack` on the remaining tapes,but not a lot.. now we wait,hovering in pouring rain,and a bit of a headwind,whilst the troops sort out the patient and stretcher.It was actually SSgt Smith,the SAS man who actually sorted it correctly.At this point I said `Put the landing lights on`..and on they came,pointing straight down ,illuminating those on the ground,and the surrounding tree-tops...they were close,all around,Then the Colonel unfastens himself from his monkey harness,and goes to get onto the abseil tapes,to go down to the ground...!!!fffs.I yell at him that he is `Not going down...using a lot of Anglo-Saxon vocabulary,and `eyeball to eyeball`.I doubt he had ever had anyone,let alone a JUNIOR RAF orficer tell him to` FO`...
Anyway,waving arms from the `floor-show` indicated they were done,so it was now a case of `up-gently`,and it had stopped raining.We missed all the branches ,and with the landing lights still on,established a climb until there was a clearish shadow of the stretcher against the trees,up to about 600ft,then turned and flew back towards Kandai at about 30-40 kts.Probably another 10 minutes ,we avoided the hill near the LZ,put the stretcher on the ground,hauled in the tapes,the Colonel jumped out,and another medic checked the patient,put him into the aircraft,picked up the Colonel,to whom I apologised later,We now needed fuel so full speed back to base to hot refuel,another medic checked the patient ,change of pilots,medic comes along,then off to Kuching hospital....
Later,next day or so the Colonel apologised,as he had not considered he could have got jammed in the wet tapes,or slipped 200ft to the ground,and become another casualty.
The wounded Gurkha CSM recovered,but later retired,went back to Nepal,got married and had children,so still some`lead in his pencil`..
The Colonel got a `no tea or biscuits` with the Brigadier, as he`d taken it upon himself to `authorise` the rescue,;Mick got a `carpet-shuffle` from OC 225 Sqdn,as he`d not been told,until after the event,and I think I went on 2 weeks leave,or into Changi Hospital to have my varicose veins removed...

John Masters received an `immediate `MC`,which to my mind should have been a VC...

Sycamore, that is one hell of a story.

Bravo Zulu!

The induced 'half crown, sixpence' effect is gradually wearing off ! :eek:
:D :D:D to ALL involved !

sycamore,

​​​​​​​The link is not working. Could you expand?

I42,sent by e-mail,as it`s rather long...

Of course he had “lead in his pencil” All of you guy’s have “balls of steel” with those type of Ops, respect to all of you!

When it all goes wrong.

is that the gotcha of not putting a knot on the end of the abseil rope ?

H500,..YES,but it does make yr eyes water if you hit the knot at speed.
Think that one wasn`t on the deck either..

NOMOREHELOS; if you`ve read the full story,we wouldn`t have been able to do our `small bit`,if it wasn`t for the fortitude and courage of JM...

Lloyd helicopters (Adelaide base) used static line pickups (for training) of South Australian Police (STAR GROUP) from deep water a few hundred metres from the beach back to the beach. Done in a B206L1 (C28 with water meth and all the rescue / ems gear- upgraded to a C30) in the 1980s til replaced with a 412 in 1990 ish. Plenty of rappelling trading done too. I’ll dig out a pic of that
VH-BJX

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bb6bb1807a.jpg
After much hunting about I finally found the only pic I took of 2 of the 4 SAS troops sitting astride the rescue strops referred to in #25.. Not of good quality ,but I was hanging outside at the time..Direction of travel is right to left.