Britbashing
 

SASless - your vitriol in other threads indicates a deep rooted dislike of the British attitude to everything, especially when it concerns the USA. Why not have a thread of your own to vent your spleen and tell us why the country with the highest production of greenhouse gases and the worst history for financial impropriety should not on the odd ocassion admit that sometimes 'British is Best'?

I have no problem saying something is better....irregardless of its origin......I just have a problem with starting off with the mindset that because of it being British it is naturally superior. I believe in calling a spade a spade.....and as your post so clearly points out....you insist upon demeanning the USA rather than refuting the points being made. My post merely said lay off with the preliminary statement of "the British.....is the best" and get on with the statement of fact or question.

I will gladly admit I prefer pubs to taverns....dark beer to light beer, curry to stewed chicken, Guinness over anything liquid, Lexington BBQ to all others....London to New York...the Wessex over the S-58T....the Mustang over the Spitfire....the Mossie over the Mitchell.....British comedy over American Sitcoms.....but I sure don't care for the xenophobic mindsets of some of the folks from the east side of the salt water divide.

Operative word is "some" not all....not many....not every.....just the few and the vocal.....those that cannot understand that every nation has a claim to greatness....and that mere birthright or class status does not give a natural guarantee to superiority.

I am not alone in this view....you have heard it from Nick Lappos and other ppruners from the western side of the salt water divide. As long as we on the west side are told by those on the east side how great things are there by natural right then you can count on a rebuttal. That is not Brit Bashing.....more like Brit Baiting maybe....which is definitely more rewarding and fun.

The one thing the Brits and the Yanks have in common....is the liberal left in both societies have an absolute ironclad belief that they are morally, ethically, and naturally correct and any opposing view is immature, incorrect, immoral and demands emotional responses with all sorts of illogical baseless allegations.

So Crab...stick your refuelling probe out on that SeaKing and take a very long flight....you guys do inflight refuelling with helicopters right?

Handbags at dawn, methinks.... :rolleyes:

P.S. MacDonalds tastes just as bad on either side of the great divide.

As a Brit I have to say that's a jolly good reply SASless (regardless of the fact that only in America could there be such a word as the double negative 'irregardless'!!).
As you say, let's keep the politics and xenophobia out of it (except when used as a wizard win-up!), call a shovel a spade and judge things on their own merits.
Your posts seem cutting and mostly to the point - just what's needed to keep these threads interesting.

PS In view of your earlier post about the Rotorheads forum being used for postings about rotary aviation, shouldn't this topic be on the Jetblast Forum?

Shy....Balloons on sticks at three paces.....say noonish....sunrise is too early for seeing....let alone thinking!

"The one thing the Brits and the Yanks have in common....is the liberal left in both societies have an absolute ironclad belief that they are morally, ethically, and naturally correct and any opposing view is immature, incorrect, immoral and demands emotional responses with all sorts of illogical baseless allegations. "

Its good to realise that you can both share equal second......

Carefully put away those royal handbags or you may get a stream from a M60 up your tailcone.

As a Brit I find myself agreeing with SASless - we don't have automatic Godhood, although we're not all total prats either.

On the other hand it also seems to me that anyone who has/had an Empire only got it by stealing it from someone else (vis Rome/India/Germany/Africa/ America)....Why do we have to do it that way - it it genetic that each lot has to prove themselves better by beating s**t out of those less able to prevent it?

But then again all the wishing don't fix it...I just promise to keep my fingers out of your pockets if you'll do the same!!!

Luv n Peace etc

Tombola said "only in America could there be..."

Only in 'America' could they take the name of an Italian explorer (Amerigo Vespucci), the eponym for an entire hemisphere, (N, S, Central), and usurp it as the name for their country alone. When folks say they're 'American', I usually ask the question "Really? What part of America? Chile? Québec? Honduras?":D

Only in 'America' when you say the word 'big', will they automatically think of Texas. Ain't nuthin' bigger n'Texas. Except maybe Alaska, most Canadian provinces, and all Australian states, save for Victoria and Tas!

As a lowly Colonial, I must say it's fun to watch the Yanks and Brits have a go. We can enjoy our Texas BBQ and Irish pubs with the comforting knowledge that we are 'unremarkable in every way'.:)

aha but CTD havent you heard America is named after a brit !!!

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=ame...ol.com&rnum=20

There are a'holes in all countries but I cannot think of any country where all inhabitants are . ( though there are certain cities in the UK where it appears they all are LOL ).

Moderators, I suggest a new forum. Rotorblast should be for helicopter pilots who want to discuss totally non-aviation related topics - but only with other helicopter pilots.

Coriolis,

In answer to why we do it consider the following.

It's genetic and memetic. Genes and memes are the two replicators in life. The genes are the proteins that give us a predisposition to sex, food and violence. The memes are the pieces of information that are created by brains, basically they're ideas born out of our ability to imitate.

Memes that complement one another may join to form a memeplex. A memeplex will grow in size and complexity as the brain in which it resides experiences more living. The inner you is a selfplex which consists of many memeplexes which are complementary and in combination create what the individual experiences as 'his' consciousness.

There are countless memes and memeplexes being created by human brains and there all competing for brain space. The memes themselves and the memeplexes of which they are a part are in competition with one another not the vehicles that carry them i.e. people.

Peoples share similar experiences with those of the same country and culture and through imitation pick up the same memeplexes. If you share a memeplex with someone else then 'you' will think 'you' agree with 'them'. This is a great success for the shared memes because as replicators they 'want' to be more numerous. The memes are quite happy to use our genetic predisposition to violence to further themselves over and above other memes prevalent in another country and culture in order to ensure that they are replicated.

This is why 'we' don't do it. It's the memes that do it and we are powerless to stop them. Honest.

Well, now I'm all perplexed:confused:

TomBola

"irregardless". Hm. I'm not sure, was it Sir Winston Churchill who said that the British and the Americans are two people divided by a common language? (or something along those lines).

I agree that too many Brits like to rest on their laurels, peoples still of a long-gone empire. However, too many Americans seem resentful of the fact that their predecessors supposedly fled an intolerable government to found a new country on the other side of the pond. The Brits like to point out that the new American settlers (of both North and South America) displaced and killed many of the people indigenous to that continent. However, it should be remembered that the English (as opposed to the Scots and the Welsh - for those contributors who seem to think that Britain = England) displaced and killed many of the Celtic peoples indigenous to the British Isles.

Maybe it's time we all just put the past behind us and realised that there are good and bad people in every country and that there are many differing views on any subject. I may agree with SASless on one point or disagree with him, but it will be because of what he says, not where he comes from.
:cool:

Clear Blue Water

Take it easy with this line of thinking, or you'll go from Darwin, to Dawkins, to Dennett. :eek:

Then we'll have to start questioning the 'Meaning of Life' :D :D

Dave

And who are the "English" anyway?

I am English (and proud of it but then again I am not a football supporter) but I have been mistakenly assumed to be Italian, French, Bulgarian and AUSTRALIAN :eek: of all things!

Last year in Miami I was assumed to be Spanish by a Spaniard. My goodness, she was lovely but unfortunately I couldn't understand a word she said.

This gets embarrassing. Only one generation ago I would have been an O'Flaherty :confused:

So where do dark haired, blue eyed people normally come from?

Shy Tq. asks:

*****
So where do dark haired, blue eyed people normally come from?

*****

I thought we all came from Texas :cool:

Sasless, I admit defeat - it was a very good reply and not at all the Anglophobic rantings I was fishing for.
No we don't in-flight refuel - our Empire is so small you can get from one side to the other on one tank of gas!!

Well Crab......as is traditional....keep your sword, sidearm, and horse......errrrr...yer horse........feel free to continue to break the room out of its comatose state when you can. If we all agree then this becomes a rather boring place to visit....kinda like Horley on a Tuesday afternoon. You could have picked a couple of other topics and I would have fulfilled your every wish by entering the affray frothing at the mouth and yelling really politically incorrect rantings! Subjects like the American Social Security system, costs of medical insurance in the USA, licensing of doctors and attorneys.....oh, I could go on....but then these are not topics for discussion here.

Helicopter seats, heaters, cockpit layouts, side-saddle attitude indicators, cheap assed helicopter operators.....and Nigerian Uniformed extortionists.....now we can really get a tempest going.

I was once told:

we're all entitled to our own opinions......but the yanks are entitled to defend them:rolleyes:

Tropicopter - many thanks for the explanation - I feel heaps better now, I think.

No, I'm going to stop thinking, especially about your explanation; maybe I am a total prat after all; Boyle's law's easy, so is (are) hydraulics; theory of flight's a doddle; but I'm not sure if you're winding me up or if it's an arty thing like "look at the pathos in this pile of bricks..." but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now, so Thanks again.....


Clearblue - I wish I'd said that 'cos it's exactly wot I Thort (je suis relatively illiterate engineer type)

Ho Hum.....

Tropicopter....

I feel compelled to correct one of your misconceptions about the origins of the USA....we did not flee the old country...by force of arms, we defeated your army and navy and won our independence from an abusive government. As a direct result of that defeat and surrender of forces, your government was forced to withdraw its forces and return them to other areas of the empire.

Many of our early settlers had indeed fled from religious persecution in Europe and settled in the colonies. That is why we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion".

Many of our states have laws that are derived from the English common law and actually still have cites to those laws although it is becoming more common for the modern law to be less tied to those conventions. Also, the laws in Louisana owe more to the French influence of that region than to the English common law. The laws in the Spanish or Mexican areas of the US are also derived in great part from those cultures as well.

One of the philosophical changes is the "Victim's Rights" movement which is slowly changing the concept of violent crime being a violation of the peace and dignity of the state (read Crown) and making it a crime against the person of the victim whereas the old common law made it a property crime against the Crown. (as during the days when serfs were considered property of the Crown).

Thanks for that SASless - the detail of history never was my strong point.
Interesting point you make about we have within our Bill of Rights, an article(amendment) that prohibits a "state sponsored or state created religion" in view of the Ruling that the California federal judges made only a few weeks ago, that the words "one nation under God", in the Pledge of Allegiance infringe the constitutional spearation of church and state. Do you agree with the view that this means that the words "In God We Trust" should be removed from every dollar bill?

Tropicopter....

The founding fathers freely mentioned the concept of a nation being "under God" and did so in many documents. My interpetation of the intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is that there would be no " state sponsored religion " ,meaning a particular sect, or form of religious doctrine and ritual.

I am not supportive of the judge's decision as it is written.....and if you read the facts of the case, most reasonable people would not support it either. The case stems from a doctor suing the government over his concern that his third grade daughter (being raised in his atheistic home) was being unfairly discriminated against by being exposed to the pledge of allegiance to the flag while in school. He said she felt intimidated and was coecrced into saying the pledge.

Somehow, the image of big burly cops, standing over the child with sticks or something, making her repeat this horrible pledge just doesn't seem to ring true. All he had to do was approach the school board and request that she not have to uttter those offensive words...."under God".

If she wanted , all she had to do was remain silent and state she objected on grounds that she was an atheist and the school would not have persisted. This was a radical using our system to further his political cause. Do you reasonably think a second or third grade child can formulate this concept of "God" or have a driving need to be an "atheist" or was this more her father being the individual involved here.

I watched an interview of this idiot on the Telly....and was impressed with him no end. He spent 3,000 hours of work doing the suit....and now intends to pursue other issues along the same line. Even the interviewer was ....how I can say it....errrr...disdainful of the good doctor's motives, explanations, and cause.

One must also recall, the circuit court in California is the most liberal in the country and the decision is subject to review by the Supreme Court. Also, the court has reconsidered its decision in the aftermath of all the uproar the decision caused.

So the answer is "NO"....leave the currency alone...leave the pledge alone....leave the school kid alone....if you believe in "God" fine, if you do not..."Fine..." That is what religious freedom is all about......not a freedom "from" religion.

AND ANOTHER THING...

... I do believe in God, the Pledge of Allegiance, One Nation Under God and all of the rest. Therefore, I suggest this: anyone out there who can't stand having those terrible words; "In God We Trust" on their currency can package all of it up and send it to me. Any denominations or coinage welcome.

What the hell, while we're at it - I'll accept guns and ammo too! :D

C Ya

SASless you forgot 'by force of arms (and with the help of the French) we defeated your army and navy etc..'
It is sad that what was an economic dispute (taxing tea) was so poorly handled by the British government and could have been settled so simply. There must have been some lessons learned though - the British gave the East India company a monopoly on importing tea thus denying American merchants the ability to trade....this sort of business ethic is the same employed by the likes of Microsoft and IBM!!

Now Crab....you are edging towards another fuss.....please remember that you cannot expect much out of a race of people that try to make saltwater tea !

What an interesting thread... :(

Unfortunately internet isn't so easy to get in some parts of the world and therefore we have no words from other nations.
And unfortunately the kings english isn't the the most proven language inside and outside helicopters in the most parts of the world. (JAA and FAA still working on that problem)
Ok, there are a lot of helojocks in the USA and UK, but if we have all the russians out here on the screen...
I have met and flown with some helicopter pilots from a lot of countrys (including russians :rolleyes: ) but never seen such a discussion. Should this be a question of selfimagination... or is it a bad childhood trauma?
Praise the Lord!
i'm german :D :D :D

quote "A large number of Americans have German ancestors. More than 25% of U.S. Americans are either completely or partly of German descent. There was even some talk after the War of Independence about whether English or German should be the national language! '

". In 1902, proposed congressional legislation requiring the U.S. Government to use the metric system exclusively was defeated by a single vote. "

Hmm wonder what a German speaking Metric US would be like ,

"a German speaking Metric US !!!!"

And then there are the french around the big river, the chinese and other yellow folk in the northwest (with all kinds off languages), Florida and SW has second language "Inglese",
most of the big money gets managed in hebrew, and as far as I understand Boing is building airliners in METRIC.
(Do they employ american indians? Do they still speak their native language? Is that Englisch?)
But then I might not understand it at all.............





:D :p :D :D 3top


by the way, I am from Austria, but speak mainly spanish lately........at least I try to.........

SASless,

We speak a common language, but we spell and say things in many different ways, we have some exceedingly moronic prats in our country as we also do in most of our political parties, some of our Royalty are the laughing stock of the entire universe, we drive on the wrong side of the road(according to the USA) and we brew the best beer in the world.

But if you look inwards to the USA it is mirror like, and your country also have a Major share of the morons and prats who occupy our planet, your president has great difficulty in stringing together more than three words, your military only like to fight battles from either zillions of miles high or out at sea, to top it all it is rumoured that the recipe for Budwieser was stolen from some European brewer mid last century, plus GB inc gave you the recipe for the jet engine and the fully flying tailplane? despite all this dont forget you were once one of our more troublesome colonies, who we decided to let go and rule themselve's:p

VFR has his head in the clouds me thinks...

..but thanks very much for letting us go way back when.....of course we were only fighting the second string.....guess the Hessians lent some backbone to the Redcoated mob. You guys did much better the second time around....burned the White House for us....been some times during the last administration that I would like to have invited you back for an encore.

Granted our current President does seem to mumble his words and could not be confused with your great orator Churchill....but then didn't Winston have an American mother?

Please do not forget the angled flight deck or the Fresnel Lens landing system....also British inventions that the American navy has put to good use.....course there is not a lot of need for them in the British navy.

A very interesting place to visit in the USA is the Aviation and Space Museum in Washington, DC. The entry lobby is called the hall of firsts......amazing exhibit of the record makers....the Wright Brother's airplane, Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis, Apollo, Rutan's airplane, the X-1, neat stuff really.

As to fighting wars from space, the sea, or from zillions of miles away.....tell that to the troops in Afghanistan, or the Gulf War....or go check the American graveyards in your own country Normandy, Iwo Jima, or dozens of other places. As I recall, the British SAS, Australian SAS, Canadian SF and the American SOG troops are all in it together in Afghanistan.

Matter of fact .....you might reconsider your views....afterall you might be talking about kin folk....I did have several Uncles in England during WWII.....after all they were oversexed, overpaid and overthere.....the British were undersexed, underpaid, and under Eisenhower.

DNA testing could resolve that issue . Family reunions are held in July for the Cooper clan ,VFR....cousins are always welcome! Of course, depending upon his age....hmmmmm...might be a closer relation than I care to think about !

That's an rotorhead thread and i'm not interested in any burning (White) house. Ok, do you like the publicity or why don't use your own email?

Why don't you talk about the history of rotorcrafts?


Thanks to Mr. Cierva, Mr. Flettner, Mr. Achgelis and Mr. Sikorsky.

Couldn't count a brit or american...:p

Hey Tec,

don´t forget Uncle Frank R. !!


:D :D :D 3top

Or.....a few guys like Kaman, Pieseckei, Bell.....and Sikorsky did his work in the USA....not Russia. The Russians also have a few guys who know something about building helicopters as well. Then there are the Italians, Germans, and the Japanese. Lots of people contribute to the success of the industry.

Tecpilot needs to read the entire thread and then form his post...the "history lesson" was in response to something that was said....and the consensus lately has been such "non-rotorcraft" issues sometimes work to generate interest and hopefully participation will improve as a result.

If you wish to discuss rotorcraft history....by all means start a thread....and if any interest exists out there...you will soon have an up and going thread.

I always thought the American War of Independence was fought by British traders fighting against mercenaries acting for a German king who was on the throne of England?

tecpilot,
Don't get so testy! SASless is a professional helicopter pilot and the history of America does affect him - it made him an American for one thing! Anyway, the title of this thread is Britbashing and some of the history of the USA is very relevant to that. The thread isn't titled History of Brit rotorcraft bashing......
:eek:

Tombola....you know what the three white rings around an American matelot's jumper sleeve cuff mean?

Resentful? Huh? Proud, perhaps. Boastful, perhaps. Resentful? Now you've lost me.

Btw, my predecessors didn't "supposedly" flee an intolerable government. You can be quite sure that they did, in fact flee, and that the Lenin's government was quite intolerable (and destined to get even more so). At the time, they wouldn't have tolerated two of my grandparents living -- their families were put against a wall and shot.

OFBSLF

The French helped us both directly and indirectly. Besides providing us with some arms, the French joined the US army at the ultimate battle at Yorktown. IIRC, France was at war with the UK at the time, so the bulk of the UKs army and navy were rather preoccupied.

OFB,

So really your countrymen did'nt have the ability to do it on their own, they needed the help of the treacherous Frogs? :p