Pitchlink

Are you rostered to do my next line check? Cos, I might have an 'Advisory' for you!:p

Brace yourself for another revision to the checklist.

ATB

signed Herbert Gruntbucket, Southend.

Well Red,

It looks like we are the only two with ideas to take forward to this conference in order to improve the aircraft. Maybe it is that elsewhere in the world, the aircraft and custommer service from Agusta is exactly what people want. It maybe that we are just fussy, but I dont think so; I think it is that we alone realise what a great machine it could be with a little help from its friends.

Fix it we must! Then the way of the force everyone will see!

Wish list additions
 

Pitchlink

Maybe everyone thinks you have named all the important items and we don't want to cloud the issue with minor niggles?

Such as:

I haven't flown the AW139 at night yet but I have heard others comment that it would be nice to be able to:

1. Switch the searchlight off and back on again without it self-stowing
2. Train the nightsun up higher than 25° below aircraft level datum
3. Reduce glare on the cabin windows from the landing lights so that 3rd crewmember can assist with lookout on finals

Perhaps none of these more important than your top 10. However there are also some switches in the cockpit that are far too easy to confuse:

ENG TRIM 1, ENG TRIM 2 and HOIST UP/DOWN all feel the same and so are easily confused and not only at night. Why not change the feel of the odd one out?

Good luck at the Operators Conference. Heard you will be.

speds

Speds

Yes, that's another good one. Having the search light stow every time you turn it off is often a problem. It takes a count to seven before you can see the beam again ie before you can knowingly steer it to where you want it.

Quicker you must be to think of the light that you need. Or the darkness in your way you shall follow.

Have you noticed the lightsabers in their racks in the main cabin - amazing they thought of everthing.:ok:

ATB

Red

While it may be a small matter for all you offshore people, my penn’orth focuses on the infuriating difficulty of getting reliable communication between cockpit and cabin. Depending upon the capacity of a competent crew-member to cycle a cockpit call switch in the cabin is one thing but depending upon a passenger, no matter how well briefed, is another matter entirely.

Getting a passenger to press a switch that sounds a cockpit-call chime is one thing, but why on earth was it necessary to have that switch as one part of a two-part switching action required to connect front to rear.

I don’t care what the signal might be – a chime in my headset, a tap on the shoulder, a delicate, or even indelicate touch of an umbrella under my left ear, frantic waving of a headset in the cabin – as long as, upon receipt of that signal, it remains only for me, the pilot, to press a single switch to carry out a single switching action to activate the ICS connection to the cabin.

Having paid for their expensive BOSE headsets, I should have thought the passengers might at least be entitled to be able to have a little civil conversation with the pilot from time to time rather then to be addressed imperiously through the PA. If I don't want to or can't talk to them at any time, I only need to wave them away for a few minutes, it's not bloody rocket science!

AW139
 

Slightly off the current topic, but what type of AFCS/FPC and NAV kit does the SAR 139 have? I appreciate that this changes with customer but as a general rule.

Regards

R1a

Mmmmmm ....

SAR kit is as per the Standard aircraft ..."Honeywell Primus" Avionics fit out with the addition of the 4th Axis control (collective inputs)and the appropriate software changes which (though I have not seen them yet) include "search patterns" selectable throught the FMS.

Of course I stand to be corrected by those that might know better. :O

Cheers

Don't think you're far wrong there, spin. It's all the same kit, even looks the same fitted.

3-axis is just that.

Basic 4-axis does what it says on the tin.

Enhanced 4-axis includes Auto Hover and but without a formal electronic transition to the hover

SAR version is all of the above with additional software to complete the search patterns and what the SAR people (correct me if I'm wrong) call a Trans Down, the ability to transition "electronically" or fully coupled from enroute flight all the way to a stable hover over the target. Additional hardware is the joystick for the crewman to make fine adjustments to position of heli in relation to the target as he looks vertically downwards, something the PF can't easily do.

None of the 4-axis options/variants include a VNAV function, despite it being available when the same kit is fitted to plankwings. When you want to climb or descend, the best you get is Altitude Acquire. It'll stop at the pre-selected Altitude but you have to push the button to initiate the climb or descent. Tough life, ain't it!! All that button pushing could wear a body out!

And what about Manual Starting, boys and girls!

What about this scenario?

#2 up and running, move #1 EMS to IDLE and ................... nothing! Figlio di puttana!! Try it again, check all the switches, ECLs, Auto Mode, etc, still nothing but a 1 ENG MODE SEL caption has appeared on the CAS.

The checklist says Mode switch has failed and to "continue flight, monitoring parameters" but nowt about start-up.

However, with passengers happily aboard and ready to go as well as the nearest maintenance being a days camel ride away, what to do.............?

Well, as #2 is already fired up and, therefore, there is no shortage of precious voltage to keep everything running, switch # 1 to Manual and see what happens. Press the button and lo, it's spinning up, lights off and steadies itself at idle. # 1 back to Auto, the Caption disappears and they match.

So now, there's two engines running, and no warnings or cautions. What to do..............? Yep, I thought so too!

To add to the mix, there was nothing in the CMC afterwards - NOTHING. So, was it snag or was it not a snag? Was it a software fart or not? Did it happen or not?

Or should I still be waiting in a field for the camel-borne techie to come and tell me there was nothing wrong to start with and what the f****** hell was I playing at?

Now, I know it's Italian, and therefore apt to be a little peculiar, but I will NOT buy it flowers and mutter sweet things in its earhole..............just to get it to perform.

Heliski

the ENG MODE SEL, appears when the Auto start switch fails, this can happen either a faulty switch or when you went to start the selected ENG, youve passed and then back to IDLE or to slow to get to the IDLE position, what you did was correct too, MAN mode is there for these cases :-). elswhere you could of shut the HELI shut the BATT and restart again and fixed:D, at the end the 139 still a computer but without CTRL+ALT+SUP .

Heliski .....

Methinks like myself, you are thinking the software might have some "Microsoft" code embedded eh?? ... :eek:

Cheers :E

Well, we do seem to have become quite accepting of the idea of switch it off and switch it on again with regard to computers, don't we?

I do wonder, though, just how it might look in the QRH?

Think about it - for all those captions, the first line might read:

"To determine if this is a real snag or not, switch everything off, then switch everything on again. If the caption disappears, continue flight and land and soon as practicable.

If the caption remains......................"

Or, if it isn't in the QRH and it all ends up on the wobbly side, then the post incident enquiry/court hearing might contain the following question.

"Am I to understand, Captain Bligh that you, based upon your experiences with a.......(dramatic pause to check notes).......let me see.......with a laptop computer you own, decided to respond to this warning light in the cockpit of a ten-million dollar helicopter.......designed, I might add, by teams of highly qualified and experienced engineers by........ahem........by switching it off.....and switching it on again?"

:):)

Imagine Heliski22's scenario...

Well, do you remember Geoffers pointed out (post 453);
Here's your defence! The check list said just turn it all off!:p

"...well...(rubbing chin with puzzled look over top of half round specs). Hummm, ... I see. I withdraw the question me laud". (Sits down quickly with smurk wiped off red face.)

Small print; Helicopters can go down as well as up. Your home may be at risk if you do not keep up to date with the certified RFM. RW&B is governed by the Authority. You should always take sensible legal advice before flight. No warranty given or implied on any free advice herewith.

RWB

Mea culpa - I don't know which one of the seven I was! Presumably Geoffer's first as he sat bolt upright at the instructor's station and gasped "What on earth have you done?" a moment after the entire panel went black. Mercifully, the sortie was VMC at night and was, therefore recoverable but he's right - real time IMC, such a development would be catastrophic.

We'd been having a debate during briefing (and previously in Ground School) about the sequencing of load shedding activities. Main Battery off is quite early in the sequence while Fuel Pumps follow later on. However, as Main Battery also loses you the FD (the only friend you have in the world at that moment if you're single crew) why not shut off the pumps first and give yourself a few extra minutes to get sorted out THEN lose the Battery.

Diligent student that I was, however, I stuck to the list and then turned the Main Battery on again to restore the FD which helped me get my bearings and get pointed at Fiumicino. Task over, and for the purposes of the exercise, I reached up to switch it off again and Bingo - Master off and instant lights out!!

With the power immediately restored, the APs wouldn't come back on (no answer to that yet either) and in the end I just threw away the checklist, concentrated on stabilising it then aimed it at the runway and ran it on at about 25 knots or so.

Geoffers had a bit of a chuckle when he said "Right, let's pick that one apart, shall we?!!"

Apart from the observations by Geoffers regarding checklists and labelling, could we not get the Battery Master guarded? Seems it would be a simple exercise or is there some obvious reason why not that I can't see?

I guess a guarded Bat Master switch would be a good idea. Need to think why there is a gang switch over the Gens and the Bat Master, as a guard would complicate things there. I think the guard might get my vote. Worth more thought.

I think the reason you couldn't get the AP's back having done the airborne 're-boot' is that the standby AI will take about 136 secs or so to realign. Only once it is up and running will the APs re-engage. I think its all to do with AHRS voting. Just a thought not gospel. Maybe Geoffers might comment.

On guard you must be before you switch Masters. Align your energies or with manual skill you will engage your worst fears.

ATB

Red

PS Can anyone tell me what the consequences of deploying the floats with the gear down are? The drill for ditching does not require the gear to be lowered. Is this to aid the pilot with reduced work load or might the floats be damaged by the undercarriage in some way?

Probably to do with the AHRS coming back on line - typically (with other types I know of) they take about 30 seconds on ground, about a minute in level flight and up to 3 minutes on a moving deck or unstable flight. Just a thought :ok:

Back In Action
 

Hi Guys,
I'm back after a long bout of sickness. Nice to see all the discussions on the AW 139.

These links may be of interest to you.
http://www.aeroboek.nl/ab-013.htm

http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139.htm

Quote:
With the power immediately restored, the APs wouldn't come back on (no answer to that yet either)
Probably to do with the AHRS coming back on line - typically (with other types I know of) they take about 30 seconds on ground, about a minute in level flight and up to 3 minutes on a moving deck or unstable flight.

Like I say, if you screw that up IMC or on one of those famous 'VFR-but-very-dark nights' then you are dead. I guess if you are in autorotation for 3 minutes (6 to 8,000 feet required) you might make it out the bottom assuming you don't adopt the flying qualities of a house brick in the meantime.

Best solution in the interim is a good CRM policy - check, cross-check and double check. This helicopter deals with a double gen fail better than any other with no loss of APs or coupling in the first instance. You have the opportunity to get your collective (unless you are HELISKI or others that fly single pilot) heads together and make a plan. DO NOT RUSH is the key philosophy.

I have heard some intelligent suggestions that involve switching off some heavy consumers (fuel pumps and MFD) immediately but we have to teach what it says in the book so you can expect me to skate over such suggestions wearing a crinkly grin.

G

:ok:

Yes, 212, to be fair, I had the broad description that it just takes things a tad longer to get up and running again whilst airborne.

Geoffers is right, of course, the lessons learnt so far across a range of issues regarding this heli is that it affords you the time to take your time, as it were, and not to do anything hasty in response to various problems. He and I had several discussions about the way the QRH says to do things when common sense, and even the experience brought from other aircraft wouold suggest a better alternative.

However, what I said in Post #431 still holds true - why is it that we are reduced to scrabbling around, whether by telephone, by e-mail or even here on PPRuNe, trying to keep up to date with developments, chasing information on various small issues arising or whatever else happens to be going on with what may yet prove to be the benchmark aircraft in the category for some considerable time.

Even the weekend in Valencia (why does it have to be the bloody weekend anyway?) is on the basis of sharing the schedule with the other models. Can Agusta not spare the personnel to do these gatherings one model at a time? Or am I just being grumpy over my morning coffee?

And another little snippet which isn't really that important and won't affect most, if any users. The aircraft is certified for SPIFR, fair enough. The dual controls are actually removable. But there are no plugs to maintain circuit continuity when the duals are out - they don't exist, nor, so far as I can gather, has anybody even considered making any yet. It's not a very important matter, but it does suggest some haphazard planning, does it not?

Not that much time - the EC-175 will be here soon, then watch how it's done :ok: