nice to see your so grateful for the oppotunities that the us has offered so many there darren and now things aint going your way you get the knives out. typical behaviour

nice to see your so grateful for the oppotunities that the us has offered so many there darren and now things aint going your way you get the knives out. typical behaviour

Gentlemen please, let's not allow this interesting thread to turn into personal squabbles as in a very well known other helicopters site.
Let us conduct ourselves honorably and only post messages written in the English Language so that most of us can read them.:rolleyes:

well what more proof do you need to pull the plug on the visa?I can not understand a freakin work of the posts here from people who have english as a 2nd language.So if you have been dreaming of being a helicopter pilot from the age of 3 and a half and you beg steal and borrow to get to that flight school and you meet your instructor and it says hey low diss ear be dee helly-o-kop-ta-ee-oo then keep on driving

well what more proof do you need to pull the plug on the visa?I can not understand a freakin work of the posts here from people who have english as a 2nd language.So if you have been dreaming of being a helicopter pilot from the age of 3 and a half and you beg steal and borrow to get to that flight school and you meet your instructor and it says hey low diss ear be dee helly-o-kop-ta-ee-oo then keep on driving

wigwamwilly, thank you for making it all so clear now.:rolleyes:

Hey Willy, Listen man, the knives were out only when good ould George W decided to put the entire world's economy(including the US') in the !!!!ter for personal gain!!

As for the US giving me opportunities, I'm the one that has(and still is) pumped about $130k of my hard earned (IRISH) cash into this economy. This was and still is a business relationship and the only reason I'm still here is because my Flight instructor/now Wife wants me here while I'm studying for the JAA ATPL(H) exams. I'm also trying to get her to do the JAA tests so we can move back, but she's a little lazy about studying!!!

I see this decision as a bad one for all parties involved including the US. Of all the people that I know that overstayed the J1 are young people that decided to blow their 2 years earnings on a 3 month drinking binge across the US before going home to start their careers. They're not people that come here and send money back home or have babies in order to screw the system.

My original question was, What do you guys think the chances are that the new administration will change these new rules at some point in their term? His foreign policy seems to be more diplomatic than the current.

Ooh, and I came here on an M1, as the school that I liked didn't do J1's.

wigwamwilly,

Before criticising the English of those who profess it to be their second language, I suggest that you "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye".

This is not exclusively a forum for those whose first language is English and those who have it as a second language have every bit as much right as you to comment.

And you spelt "oppotunities" wrong!!!! But don't worry, none of us are perfect!:ok:

Darren---

You obviously do not like it in the US, therefore, feel free to leave.

By the way, it is "spelled" NOT "spelt".

wrong or wrongly? Anyway , who cares about it in the internet era

Gordy,

Actually, either usage is correct, depending on which side of the Atlantic you live:

'Spelt' is the traditional British form but it's not recognised in most other parts of the world. (i.e. it's not part of 'international english').

'Spelled' is creeping in from the US and seems to be the accepted form for many British newspapers.

According to the OED, irrespective of the form chosen, the correct way of pronouncing the word is 'spelt'. This is unusual because it's normally the US form of a word which matches spelling with pronunciation; here it's the British form which does so.

Bomber,

Yours is a common misconception. People assume that none is a condensed form of no one or not one. As both always take a singular verb, the argument goes, so must none. However, the amateur etymologisers have got it slightly but seriously wrong. Our modern form none comes from the Old English nan. Though this is indeed a contraction of ne an, no one, it was inflected in Old English and had different forms in singular and plural, showing that it was commonly used both ways — King Alfred used it in the plural as far back as the year 888.

The Oxford English Dictionary has a whole section on the plural form of none, pointing out that it is frequently used to mean “no persons” (with writers preferring no one when they mean the singular) and that historical records show that its use in the plural is actually more common than in the singular. On modern usage, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage says, “It appears that writers generally make it singular or plural according to whatever their idea is when they write”.

None of this, of course, has any relevance to this thread which has drifted totally off course and degenerated into some kind of slanging match. I dare say that many people carrying out training in the USA don't like the place, but they have gone there to learn to fly, not to enjoy a holiday. The decision will undoubtedly have a short-term impact on the number of pilots being trained as few countries can compete with the USA in terms of training costs. It will have a tiny impact on the American economy as a whole, but quite a large impact (for now) on the flying training industry in that country. However, demand for training is likely to remain about the same and a number of people will now have to postpone their plans until they have saved more, or some of the larger companies such as Bristow and CHC may have to consider reintroducing sponsored training schemes.

Tokunbo are you currently held captive in a dark round room with a computer?

wigwam,

That would probably depend on your definition of "captive" as over here in Nigeria many of us are captives :yuk:. At the moment I'm a 'willing' captive, held in a compound for my own safety, on the instructions of my company. This is nominally a 'good thing' as I have access to satellite TV and the internet (though the connection is always slow and frequently unavailable) and am happy and safe :suspect:. This is to stop my becoming an 'unwilling' captive where my only interface with the internet would be as the subject of a security notice and I would be unhappy and under constant threat of death :hmm:. Actually, whilst the room is not round, it is somewhat dark because there's a huge, dark cumulonimbus sitting almost overhead, so I'll doubtless lose both my internet and satellite TV connections soon :\

It's not that I don't really like it here, I just prefer it back home. And believe me, I'm trying my best to leave!!!


Like I said nobody's perfect!!
So, anyone got any insight into my original question??

Good job at staying on topic and being helpful guys! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

What was the topic, anyway?

How the end of the J1 visa will affect the flight training industry in the US. How it will affect both Americans & Foreigners. And how it will affect schools in other countries.

That seemed to be the general gist of it until some people(including Myself) hijacked it. Sorry about that.:O

I have two good friends from Europe . . . . . who could have been spared the agony of getting married respectively to a fat Florida and Louisiana girl in order to stay in the U.S. after their visa expired!!

One of them says he would have rather stayed in the Army in Europe than dragging kids and the wife to the Walmart on a hot muggy day!!!

this just about sums it all up mike click below and play the video at 2 mins 15 secs

YouTube - Little Britain - Fat Fighters w/ Margaree

Dear Wigwamwilly,

I went through (THRU) my posts. All words in English strangely enough.
I do agree that using few less frequent words, long sentences and writing style more suitable for book does indeed expose me to such comments of yours.

I shall not become sycophant condoning your supercillious attitude and remarks (I AIN'T GONNA BE YOUR BROWNNOSER).

I did profoundly apologise for my use of plethora of words. (I SHOULD USE PLAIN ENGLISH)
I insisted it had not been due to certain nocturnal (NITE) habits.
I should therefore keep track (TRAK) of my word count.

Americans rape Queen's English as well - not just non-native speakers.
I should avoid describing you or giving my opinion since you speak for yourself 'loud and clear'.

Almost ON TOPIC:
IF American student can't train with FAA CERTIFIED instructors (due to language), then I believe it is not so much of a problem of them. Everyone speaking English as foreign language is entitled to an accent. Surely, too strong or people not understanding them can cause problems. Also, you should doubt the school employing such instructors IF they REALLY speak JIBBERISH.
If foreigners don't understand Scottish, Ohio or Tennessee accent, it's their fault. If English speakers don't understand English spoken with strong accent, it's foreigners' fault again. How convenient.

ON TOPIC:
DPH, I mentioned that the US gov't used such wording 'intent' etc before regarding curtailing J1 visas for flight students to 18months or 1 month of 'practical experience' for every 3 or 4 months of instructing.
Hard fact is that they stopped authorising more schools and screwed over Quantum before they officially stopped doing so.

If it all goes through in 2010 or around that time, I can see more students from Europe simply getting PPL, IR and hourbuilding as fast as they can. Less spending on living in the US with high expense for aircraft hire. It may not be that easy for rotary if schools would require more experience to rent helis for extended XC. Not to mentioned need for instructor for maneuvres.

Whatever happens, it won't be pure disaster but rather obstacle for helicopter pilots starting career.

ivor,
sure schools in the UK won't mind having couple more students.
Those who can sell house in the UK or remortgage or get huge loan will train either way. Just not sure whether they wouldn't head to Australia, NZ or SA instead. Still cheaper than UK.

As for 'ailing', people here mention shortage of instructors in the UK. Maybe not every school, but if there's less guys coming back from Bristows with JAA papers and FI rating, there'd be less available instructors, right? I'm not talking about lucky guys with excess of 1000 hours or even spare cash for JAA IR(H) in Billund or wherever.

What about those who can't get enough cash for flying so much in the UK? Would they sacrifice another x years just to get it all done to JAA min hours for instructing, even with some hourbuilding in the US after PPL?

I'm under the impression that North Sea operators hire only guys/gals with 1,000 of helo time. Getting a US commercial and instrument rating only takes about 200 hours. How will they get the other 800 flight hours?

You've got the wrong impression, ATPMBA. Lots of CPL/IRs have been hired recently (ie in the last 2 years) with about 250hrs TT.

(Under JAA, a modular CPL course in min time will complete at 185hrs and the IR is a further 50hrs).

link


Bravo73,

Well, those guys who can spare cash for JAA IR(H) and still do JAA CPL will not have problems thanks to aviation J1 demise. They'd be just fine on M1.

Ivor,
Didn't know it's that small numbers. It says something about success (and wealth) of Bristow Academy grads so that they are not 'forced' to instruct in the UK.
If I could get JAA FI (not counting the theory crunching) with the hours to instruct in the US (even 200TT heli for Robbies SFAR thingy) and come back to UK to instruct, I'd go for it straight away.
I think that those 250 hours req to start rotary JAA FI is like and orphaned child of fixed wing regulations in a way. Sure, more hours more experience, so then why FAA heli training system isn't crumbling?

Those extra hours (to start FI rating) plus JAA FI means around 280+ AFAIK. I'm sure there's more folks thinking the same.
Hence the need for instructing in the US due to limited budget. If successful, then they don't need to instruct in the UK when back.
Catch-22, really.
To save longer to instruct in the UK and delay career by couple years or do it as fast as possible on J1.

I wish I could be in position to 'give up completely' after CPL papers etc without the need, ie lost medical etc. That must be the guys who get wad of cash the easy way and/or find flying isn't about 'looking cool'. Others have to save for years to get there - they already decided.

Direct link to PDF on NAFSA web

NAFSA article on the matter

The link above from FLemploymentLawBlog.com also has one comment just made after I posted article. It has detailed 'opinion' why it's going to end.

To make the story short, it's not about overstaying boozers or other classes of J1. It's about Patriot Act and DHS and DOS differences on who should do extra paperwork 'overseeing' J1 flight training program. That the business loss to some J1 'dependent' schools is not considered as since there's not that many J1 flight students a year, so it QUOTE 'benefits few people'.

Great :ugh: :yuk: :mad:

Could someone clarify
 

Just reading through the posts and you can read it two ways -


"No more visas will be issued after June 2010"

or

"In June 2010, J1 visas will be terminated regardless of time left"


Does someone know which one it is?


It seems silly to me that someone could apply for a J1 visa in say Jan 2010 and then only get 5 months on it!

I guess no-one knows then!?

C'mon, if you've gone through LASORS, ANO or FAR/AIM, ATPL theory, you should have got the gist of the messages.
If it seems too silly, then it probably isn't so. Slow down, digest the info.
The links I included (for the PPRuNers' info) say it all.
It's not hot topic anymore with me whinging about it and posting all the links..

Expect high demand last months before deadline so the chosen school might fill their own/however decided cap for the number of new or total J1 students. I'm sure some FW Florida schools won't mind couple extra students and the studs won't mind bit less flying/slots in exchange for being safely in.
If you got the plans to do J1 and have all the funding, do it rather earlier than later.

I'll quote my quote from quoting the quote elsewhere:hmm: to clarify in plain-ish English
This means that if you made it past the US border and were stamped date on your I-94 in passport and DS 2019, you're safe in these terms. So the cut off means that from about June 2012, there shouldn't be anyone left on flight training J1 as all the last birds in flew out or changed to another visa..

If somebody is stupid/unlucky enough to get DS form in time but fails to be on US soil with stamped docs by 1st of June 2010, then they are supposed to be told by the school - GAME OVER.

This means that you have to get the initial paperwork, DS 2019 from school BY END OF 2009. You can apply for visa anytime over the months after as long as you comply with the above with DS in hand.

I'm not sure if i have understood this correct, but it seems as they will take away the old J1 visa and make it easier to get the new M1 which is almost the same as the J1.

AOPA Online: Foreign flight students get alternative to J-1 visa

"almost the same"???!

- 1 year vs. 2 years duration
- no work experience for the visa holder and no work permit for his/her spouse (!)

...but the M-1 is certainly enough to get 250 hours to start in the north sea.

Just to correct this, it says " the Department of Homeland Security said that it will create a new visa category, M, to replace the J-1 visa"

So it is not the M1 as i said. It will be a new M visa, so lets say M2.

Regards
Eikido

Well now, that could be very interesting. There seems to be a lot more helo schools over here with the M1 visa's than there is with the J1. Now if they open up another M category visa like your example the M2, would that make it easier for these schools to get the "M2" status than it was to get the J1 status? If that was the case, then it could be really good news for anyone coming to the states to train and work for a short period after their training.

(from the same AOPA article. Bold - my highlighting)

You guys forgot to quote the most important thing for heli pilots.
There is M visa class for vocational studies in the USA. I presume they'd create subclass of the current M1 (just like J1 is for aupairs, med PhDs, internships, summer work programmes, flight training as of now - it's all J1, just different duration and work authorisation...).

M2 is reality. It's for dependant of M1 holder (but the current M2 does not authorise dependant to work, unlike J2 - no limitations work permit, funny that).

If this becomes reality, it'll be great news for smaller schools (having or pursuing M1 options - being able to issue I-20s. It may as well be closer to F1 visas (language and academic studies) which allow 'on-campus' part-time work etc.
It may not please the big J1 schools too much as it'd bring more competition (Brits, Germans and Scandinavians could get more picky if they don't need JAA course right away), but I guess it's better than having only the current M1 options.

We'll see. My green card lottery entry already submitted this year. :)

I suppose you have to wait for the new administration.

simondlh,
Look, don't wanna sound pessimistic, but you should think of other ways/options if you won't make it before it's gone. It's too 'insignificant' for DOS to bother with it and no other govt agency wants to bother. So let's just stop it,right? We'll get them some fluffy vague honeyed promises (to keep AOPA happy for the time being) and then we'll just 'forget'.
That's how I see it. Or is it still October?
It's about the will.

Phill77,
Wake up. Don't wanna talk politics, but it's bit wishful thinking, that all the changes to our 'cause' happen because of another face in WH. :rolleyes:
Well, not for everyone (lucky ones). If I could throw enough cash for 250 hours and JAA FI rating on top (or hefty JAA IR(H) for NS without 1000TT), I would not need to bother with some J1, now would I?
It's rather about having 150 or 200h heli (R22 SFAR73) and getting some hours in logbook instructing.

my bad, poorly phrased... I should have said that the old administration is not getting anything done anymore (have they ever? :{ )

When does the J1 visa end ?
 

I had a look thru old posts on this website and alot of other ones as well and i still find it difficult to get any answers . I know the visa ends at the end of this year 2009 but what is june 2010 date about . Is it a done deal . All info on this subject is welcome

Any updates on this?

For all of you thinking, how about Canada?

I know of a place that is considering doing full Transport Canada CPL/IR AND JAR CPL, with a possible single engine IR.

No visa problems here, not as cheap as US, but cheaper than UK/Europe, and no problems getting on the schedule...

Cheers
W.

Winnie, you don't happen to work/be affiliated with such FTO, do you?

It would be interesting to see CHC buying off some good school and starting up Bristow Academy equivalent. There are options for some 'work experience' work permit after finishing CPL/CFI training. Plus many could use Working Holiday Visa aka '1 year open work permit' as per Canadian visa terms.

No doubt with USD/GBP 'killing us' when heading over/returning to the US, Canadian rates are becoming more interesting. So do NZ rates. Both countries more than fun for mountain flying. :cool:

whirlydude, since you don't bother reading up,
Dec 31 2009 last chance for school to issue DS form you need for visa appl at embassy/consulate.

June 2010, last chance to enter the US for the first time to 'activate' J visa. Otherwise royally stuffed.


HELOFAN,
Don't think so. I tried to find something on AOPA website recently. Only old 'news'. You know, these things take time. Long time. :(

Martin CH

The answer would be Yes...