Ahhhhhhh. Fair enough then.


Glad you still like your toy then!

The swashplate housing is 17700 hours, which basically for all intents and purposes, makes it an on condition part. The swashplate bearings are 1200 hours, unless you add a grease fitting to the housings, then the bearings become on condition. The mechanics I have talked with, tell me they don't see much of an increase in usable times by doing this, for most private owners they only see a 100 to 200 hours increase.

The MR transmission is a 1200 hour item for overhaul. The overhauls MUST be done by Enstrom. Overhaul kits used to be available, however, there have been issues with the quality of these overhauls and Enstrom has pulled the kits.

I did the 50 hour check on my 480 and had no problems. I am now at 75 hours and still no problems..and I just love this crazy thing. I am having a blast in it.

Chuck

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...opterN480L.jpg

I have a different feeling on my Chelton.

When I ordered my Enstrom it was really hard to get real world information about how it would work. You had not even received yours yet. I ultimately decided to buy the Chelton for any increase in safety it might provide.

5 months later, I am slightly more qualified to make my own assessment. Knowing what I know today, I would not have put the Chelton in. It just doesn't do enough for $100,000. In fact, I recently upgraded my panel with a Garmin 496 to make up for some of the shortcomings.

Here are just some my issues.
1) It takes a long time to boot up - Longer than anything else in my cockpit, by far..which means I am burning extra fuel, etc.
2) I think it is a shame the Chelton requires a different Jeppesen subscription than my 430 (or now the 496, too).
3)The Vertical Speed Indicator in the Chelton is almost worthless. In fact, you can't see it at all from the co-pilot seat, so it make this helicopter pretty hard to train in. I would highly suggest a traditional gauge for VSI in future installations.
4) The terrain awareness feature is cool, but it squawks way too early for helicopters. It is always giving off false alarms. It feels like it is really set up for airplane speeds, etc. I leave it off most all the time.
5) I wish you could see airport diagrams, (like Garmin's "Safe Taxi") etc. Chelton says this will never happen on this product.
6) The Chelton can't talk to my 430, so I have to constantly type airport identifiers into both units...what a pain!
7) Traffic and weather options are unbelievably expensive for it.
8) It can be confusing to operate...some things you set on the MFD, others on the PFD...yeow!
9) It needs a better Turn and Bank indicator - or again, I should have put a traditional gauge in.
10) The "Highway in the Sky" is kind of silly, because in a helicopter you generally are not landing directly to a runway.

In fact, I'd say most of the value of the Chelton would be with airplane based Instrument / IFR situations. Most of the features that they describe in the video or online are directly about working in IFR situations....not relevant to me or Enstrom...as you know, the Enstroms are not certified for IFR flight at all.

All in all, the concept is sort of neat, but it is not really fleshed out far enough. I would much rather have traditional gauges and room on the panel to put in a new Garmin 696, etc.

I do like the ETE and ETA stuff and how it shows wind direction..and basically all of the gauges work fine. The speed and altitude tapes are nice.

Anyway, enough on the Chelton, I don't hate it, but I feel I could have spent my money better.

Edit..later this week the 496 is coming out and I am putting a Garmin 696 in.

Chuck

Chuck,

To each his own on the Chelton. As for me, I wouildnt leave home without it. For me, it makes the machine! I confess to being an avionics junkie, and consider the helo to be a platform to carry the radios around!:ok:

I recently completed an instrument rating in the 480 and found the Chelton to be the most useful of the semi-glass panels I have tried. THe VSI is a challenge, but I have found that one learns to look for it and use it. I feel that light helos are still in the dark ages (steam gages) for the most part re modern avionics. Almost every "advanced" light helo has a Honeywell/King KCS 55 compass system. This thing is a boat anchor that was designed more than 25 years ago. In forty plus years of flying, KCS 55 systems have failed me more than any other. I have added a 696 as a backup (photo here http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/353...min-696-a.html ). It is not without problems as it crashes from time to time (never happened with the Chelton.)

Anyway, we are in violent agreement re the E480 being a great helo.

I agree with you, light helicopter's panels are in the dark ages. I guess I covet a panel with a new G1000, or Rockwell Collins etc. How can you not appreciate the panels on a new Cirrus or Citation? Why can't we get those on a helicopter?

I agree the Chelton is better than most anything I have seen on a helicopter, I was just disappointed it doesn't do more and do it better... Faster start-up, better VSI, better declutter, better terrain, airport diagrams, communication to the Garmin radios, (or even have its own radios), etc.

You say the VSI is a challenge...I agree. When I learned to fly helicopters I learned how important it is..I don't want to be "looking" for it. <gr>

Congratulations on the instrument rating. I hope to work on my rating this winter. Maybe as I get into that I will appreciate the Chelton even more.

It sounds like we agree on most of this. Happy Enstrom flying!
Chuck

Enstrom 480 queries
 

Trying to gather some user feedback on the 480 for commerical use please - good/bad/indifferent, comparisons with other singles, reliability, AOG support, etc please?

From my limited experience they are very nice helicopters.

For commercial use, though, the configuration might limit passenger capacity. Although it can seat 5, it seems best with 3 - so only 2 px.

hi docstone, PM'S
 

read your PM, Just sent you 2 pm's
tot

anyone looking to hanger an Enstrom 480/B ?
 

I have purpose built, free hangerage in return for a little free flying for a 480. I have over 200 hours on type. Very remote SW Shropshire location 10nm SE of Welshpool at 1050ft. asl. Ring Robin on 01588 638648 if interested.

On the Enstroms, where are the pitch links from the swash plate to the rotor head? It looks like a simple shaft with no links?

mine's still for sale...:)

Inside the hollow mast ("shaft"):8 Like all other design choices, this involves certain tradeoffs. Being inside the mast, they are less vulnerable to wires, birds, etc; OTOH, more difficult to inspect. AFAIK, this design has been mostly trouble free, with most problems coming from undetected corrosion resulting from storing the helicopter outdoors.

There have been a few Enstrom wire strikes which would probably have brought down other aircraft. Great design to keep the control rods out of harms way as long as the corrosion issue is managed.

The corrosion failure was to a rod which had allegedly been lying round a breakers yard for years. The issue has been dealt with by an AD (or SDB?) requiring internal inspection of the rods. A bit of a pain as the rivets and end fittings have to be removed. All the rods I have seen - 12, I think, have been fine. The swash plate lives under the gearbox and is also prone to corrosion as water goes down the mast and ends up on the swash plate resulting in expensive repairs. The head bearings are prone to corrosion too and it runs to about £10k for a head/swashplate overhaul. This is why one often sees Enstroms parked up with a bucket over the head. I have found liberal doses of ACF50 help keep the problem at bay.

Hangar is even more effective!;)

Enstrom display
 

Nice to see Enstrom 280C, G-BEYA still flying and autorotating especially well, even if the skipper squeezed the very last ounce of rotor energy from a nice vertical touch down.

'Twas the self same machine I displayed at Noel Edmonds', Mr Blobby air show at Cranfield, (I'm guessing circa 1998 or so) Once owned by the potato man up in Norfolk ... who owns her now?

DennisK

Hi Dennis, She has belonged to Hovercam since 1995 :) Just running in the engine again. If you are down Devon way in August perhaps you could acompany me on a check ride?

Four seater Enstrom
 

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!BP4-z+!CGk~...yCOb(!~~_1.JPG

Anybody seen one of these before, I think there would be a little C of G problem. Maybe the pilot had really long legs.

Kirt, That looks like a photoshop mock up of a 280L hawk. There was only one I think and Enstrom still have it in storage. It flew but was never certified. Picture of the real one here.

flight international | usa | kania | 1979 | 0257 | Flight Archive

Edit. I just remembered, Dennis K stretched a 280. It could be that. That doesnt look like Enstrom landing gear though.

Any thoughts Dennis?

it was in one of the old sheds at enstroms factory along with the turbine 280

Enstrom rotorhead
 

I was wondering if someone can please explain how the three-bladed Enstrom rotorhead works? Do the cables go up a non-rotating shaft inside the outer rotating shaft to work pitch control rods up in the head?

Is this the same system that the Brantly B-2 employs?

Thanks!

I've not worked on Brantlys so I do not know how they compare. In the Enstrom the control rods are attached to the swashplate below the gearbox. They terminate at the walking beams at the top of the mast. The mast and the control rods rotate together.

A little entertainment for those of you who like to watch the Enstrom fly. Did this today.:ok:

ive never seen an enstrom fly with the doors off. is this not an option?
cheers ascj

Sure, you can. I did it a lot when I was training on an F28 and a 280.
My 480 has air conditioning so I have not had the doors off of it, but I know of other 480s that fly without doors.

Chuck

Enstrom Training in Los Angeles?
 

After trying out a R22, R44, 300CBi and a 280FX (out of town) to decide on which I would like to train in and most likely purchase in the future I've decided on the 280FX. Does anyone know of anyone teaching in Enstrom's in the Los Angeles area, whether with a company or privately? Anyone with any leads please feel free to post or PM me.

Thanks

I think Enstrom is very good helicopter for private flyers with very good stability and handling.

If anyone knows which schools in Sweden make course on Enstrom please send me the private message.

http://cdn-www.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/aviati.../4/1026492.jpg

SE-HKA Enstrom 280C Shark departing Barkarby (Stockholm)

Baron,

That is a nice looking aircraft. I believe the Enstrom is really the only piston helicopter that makes any sense for the private owner. But it doesn't mean that commercial operators shouldn't use it. I know of many operators that use the Enstrom for conducting helicopter rides. And there are at least two operators here in the USA that conduct spray operations with the Enstrom.

ASCJ in post #265:
http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/ph...wb/enstrom.jpg






http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...MG0310edit.jpg

Enstrom with EFIS!

Owning an Enstrom F28
 

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone give me an insight to owning an Enstrom F28 please? I like the look of the machine and the purchase prices seem reasonable (Circa £30k), so I feel I am missing an important point.

Any comparisons with the R22 would be great, not just on running costs but any other aspects would be good too.

There is an edge of fantasy here at the moment as I am still training, but would very much like to purchase my own machine afterwards to hour build.... What would be the chances of finding people to cost share? Is there already one I could join rather than buy my own?

Thanks,
HR22

Lots of people deride the F28. They are almost invariably those who have never flown it. (just as I deride the Robbo, having never flown it)
They are good, well made, well designed aircraft. They are very pleasant indeed to fly, and although the "A" model is not exactly overpowered especially 3 up it is adequate - just. Still, it's good practice. The 28C has lots more power due to the turbocharger - but you pay more. Autorotation is good, relatively high inertia c/f a robbo. Nice and forgiving. Instrumentation is basic in most "A"s, but what do you want an AH for in a VFR machine? And it looks like a helicopter, not an airfix kit. And if you want to see what they are really capable of doing, watch a video of a Dennis Kenyon display. You won't believe your eyes!
Robinson. Pah!

Maintenance.
Engineers hate them. They were designed to fly, not to be maintained easily or cheaply. I remember rotor tracking was a pain and was needed frequently, but a smooth-flying Enstrom is a thing of joy. A battery change involved a ridiculous amount of dismantling of structure to achieve. You'll need to find a tame Enstrom specialist engineer to look after it.

There are plenty of cheap dogs around though, so seek an Enstrom expert's advice and buy one that is known to him as a good one.

You'll love it!

The 28a is quite underpowered so you need to be quick with your wrist as it's got no corralation at all, you need a good engineer as well & it's not economical on fuel but it's a reasonably good machine but not as good as the later turbo models, the 280c is much better looking though.

Enstrom 28A
 

Just a small point re the non-turbo Enstrom 28 & 280 models ... I've been hearing for almost forty years they are underpowered. Not quite correct I'm afraid as the Lycoming 360 cubic inches 'A' series engine produces 205 BHP. (Compare the equivalent Hughes 300 360 cubic inch 'D' Lycoming at 190 BHP!)

The problem is the A model is overweight! Typically around 1650 lbs WPS being 400 to 500 lbs more than a SH 300. Even so she is a nice tight ship, well harmonised controls ... but the three big warts are the heavy collective, the poor throttle/lever co-relation and blade delamination on the early blades. Autos not far off a 206, never been a fatal in the UK in 40 years, big 5feet wide cabin, separate 60 lb luggage locker, can produce extreme manoeuvres safely. (a 360 degree low level loop is a standard manoeuvre in my display sequence - but don't try at home without guidance) cruise at around 100 mph, top speed 112mph, range can be 250 to 280 sm. In fact I often used to wonder why anyone bought anything else! AND - you can still get one for £30k or thereabouts. Similar year 300 will bring double that.

Be happy to expound on the above for a serious purchaser but I'm no longer into sales.

Safe flying to all types out there. Dennis Kenyon.

I owned a 28C and I didn't think it was that expensive to maintain. Yes the early blades have a delamination issue. In fact blades will delaminate if you don't take care of them. Keep them clean and waxed goes a long way.

There is only 9 life limited parts and several of them have such high time limits that it makes them for all practical purposes 'on condition'. Also the only regularly required inspections are the 100 hr/annual. No 1200 or 2200 hour inspections.

As for fuel burn, my average fuel burn ran between 8 to 10 gallons per hour.

Nice Enstrom vid:

Thank you everyone for responding, lots of information and help has come my way :ok:

Hello to you all too :)

HelipadR22,

not sure where about's in Wales you are but it would be a good idea to have a chat with a few owners/operators.
TK up in Chester fixes them as do Vanguard Heli's at Henstridge (Dorset and Somerset border). Vanguard also operate one so they may be a good port of call.

There are many people who are quick to slate the Enstrom but only take notes from those people who have flown and/or operated one.

Every helicopter can be slagged off about something but it's a question of personal choice. That can be made up from a number of factors whether it be price, looks, safety record etc etc.

If you have not flown one then go and have a go before going any further.

Good luck.

Hi JW,

Thanks for the input. I certainly plan on taking a flight in one before I do anything else. It nice to make some contacts and get some names so I can get an all round view.

Looking forward to getting my hands on the controls :)

Nice vids guys.

Enstrom FX
 

Hi Earl,

Yes, I also take the view that the 280FX version is the prettiest airframe Menominee has produced, and the swept back T/R end plates solved the occasional 'fishtailing' of the ealier models. Many in the industry still 'slag off' the type, but as been observed here, if the Enstrom is well maintained by a type knowledgable and experienced LAE, it makes a great personal helicopter. Good looking, good handling, quiet with reasonable economy for a 100 mph, three seater.

When I introduced the type to the European market in 1972 for my boss Roy Spooner, we experienced plenty of hostility from some quarters, that being a prime reason for my commencing a programme of flying displays around the country which the type does particularly well. My mid 1970s Farnborough display sequences certainly stopped a lot of the knocking.

Loved Earl of R's movie of the FX flying around the Twin-County Airport at Menominee, but you should see the place in mid winter. While on a sales meeting with the former owner, F Lee Bailey, I once saw minus 40 degrees on the OAT ... now that was cold and the Enstrom blades were cutting through the cold air like a hot knife through butter.

There were some great characters there in those days, Herb Moseley in engineering, that super saxophonist Paul Schultz in design, and of course Dave Brandt in engineering support. Not to forget pilot Paul Harrington and the test pilots Mike Meger and Mott Stanchfield who got me started on the display flying.

A small story some might like. Around 1985, F Lee Bailey stayed at my home while visiting Farnborough. I introduced my four-year old son Dennis to the great man. F Lee was being chatty and said to him ... "I'm told you can fly an Enstrom." My son adopted a flying pose as he shook and rapidly rotated his cyclic hand . "Oh yes ... Dad often gives lets me touch the controls!" he replied.

Thanks goodness they didn't all fly like that!

Happy flying to all Enstrom owners. Dennis Kenyon.