A specialistpaint distributor *should* be able to supply the correct primer....you could always look for Automotive paint and bodyshop suppliers on the Net, from there, find the manufacturers, such as Dupont, Sikkens Etc and email their tech.dept direct...they should have tech. sheets to cover prep and application.

Marine applications also come to mind.
Have you been looking at retail outlets for Professional "trade" paints?
You are obviously a capable person, determined to understand your machine and learn the disciplines needed to maintain it. Professional engineering suppliers are the way forward. I think you'll find Zinc Chromate primer available in 1/2 litrepacks upwards..generally, 2-pack paints are streets ahead of solvent, or water-based stuff Avery thin, translucent coat is all that's normally needed....again, a paint-manufacturer will give full details of systems , prep, different coats and overcoating etc. hth.

Finding it isn't the problem, it's the time it takes to get it sent here. This has already been apart going on a month and the primer is holding me up now. I think I am just going to use Rustoleum self etching primer found at local auto parts store and WalMart. Gray is good color for inner panels anyway and the reviews on long term corrosion protection are good on this. Besides I think for other than large commercial shops zinc chromate has been replaced with zinc phosphate, which this primer is. Either way it is better than how it is. The existing coating is coming off on the inner panels and the primer on the support tubes didn't do much to stop corrosion there. I might use Dupli-color self etch green on the tubes. Not aluminum anyway. Always interested in experience and opinions though. As to my rotors I will wait for the good stuff. Plan is for PTI acid wash primer followed by PTI Epoxy primer then topped with PTI Polyurethane. Semi gloss Dakota black on leading edge and underneath and Gloss Madrid Red on tips. Suppose to be a super hard and tough coating.

Have you tried Aircraft Spruce? At Pilot Supplies and Aircraft Parts from Aircraft Spruce. They do have it. However, it is becoming more and more difficult to get as it is a environmentally unfriendly material. In my dealing with Aircraft Spruce, I have found that they are good folks to deal with, fair and will quickly ship the product.

Good luck.

Yes Aircraft Spruce has to get it from PTI and they wait for enough orders to make it worthwhile to send a truck to pick it up due to hazardous fees. Could take upwards of 30 to 45 days sometimes. I'm working with PTI rep and AS rep directly to try to get some drop shipped. I can't wait to put this back together so I decided on Rustoleum self etching primer from walmart with a topcoat of Rustoleum rust control gloss gray enamel for the inner panels and the self etching might be OK for the support tubes since it has a dark green shade to it. If not I may just get the Dupli-color self etching lighter green. The Rustoleum has zinc phosphate, but the Dupli-color does not. I think it is the Titanium in the Duplicolor that controls rust, but I'm not sure. Others have reported great results years after application on both so I don't think I'm going to have any issues. Will keep a close watch on it though.

Well looks like another miss by the former mechanic. What are the chances that the overrunning clutch would be totally empty of oil since it is a required check on all annuals? Which was completed less than 25 hours ago. Not a drop in the clutch. Now I have to find a couple ounces of Mobil Jet Oil II before I can move on. Will it ever end? This guy should lose his license. I can't imagine how dangerous a locked up overrunning clutch would be. OH yes I can. DEAD

lvflyer:

You've got some very interesting things going on with your Enstrom. From what you've posted, I recall you've have collective binding problems, a leaking gearbox, panel and flight control tube corrosion, M/R leading edge erosion and delamination, untorqued transmission mount bolts, and now a dry clutch.

On top of all that, you've paid a mechanic for a recent annual inspection where these discrepancies should have been found and fixed.

It seems, just based on the incomplete evidence here, that your A&P (and AI?) may have dropped the ball -- to put it mildly. For that, you may want to have a word with the local FSDO.

However, and with respect, your remedies for the listed discrepancies seem equally worrisome. Rustoleum from Walmart in lieu of Zinc Chromate? Household paint on the M/R blade leading edge?

Who is applying the paint? Is it being done per OEM requirements? Is blade balance being considered? And is the blade erosion outside of tolerance? Who is doing the filing/blending on the leading edge? Who is balancing the blades afterwards? Will this work be signed off by an A&P? Are your torque wrenches certified accurate? Are your maintenance manuals (which I assume you are following) up to date, with latest revisions and bulletins?

My recommendation would be for you to stop where you are and assess the condition of the aircraft as an pilot/owner, and not as a mechanic (unless you are an A&P). You should find a competent, well qualified mechanic to inspect the aircraft NOW. Get an estimate to complete the repair work using OEM and FAA approved materials and consumables.

If you can't afford to do it right, you have some serious decisions to make. You can continue down your current path of what seems to be non-compliant standards, or you can cut your losses and sell the aircraft to someone with the budget to complete the work in an approved way. Enstroms are well regarded aircraft...it will sell even in pieces.

I've never worked on an Enstrom, but I've signed enough helicopter maintenance logbooks to know that before I put my name to paper, the work was done per spec and parts used were all genuine and authorized by the OEM and/or FAA. Your Enstrom deserves that. The FAA requires it.

And most importantly, your family and passengers trust that your aircraft has been maintained to the highest standards. Don't let them down.

Matari, Thanks for your interest and concern. Some minor corrections of your conclusions.

First this is my first annual. The former owner paid $5k plus every year for his annuals from the mechanic that I wish to expose. The ship should have been in the best condition possible at that rate. I am posting this so others may learn. I am under the capable hands of a licensed A&P with helicopter experience.

Collective was rigged wrong and now perfect thanks to my mechanic, Bayard, Dennis, and others on this forum.

Leaking gearbox was because of the loose bolts on the transmission case and not mounting bolts. This should have been taken care of along time ago.

I agree with you that somebody should give the other people around here a heads up about the A&P that dropped the ball repeatedly. Problem is the IA helped me a great deal and was very particular years ago. I don't know why he is turning a blind eye to this guys work. I told him about it and he said "no it couldn't be his fault, somebody else worked on it after him"... I told the former owner and he won't even acknowledge me at airshows and won't acknowledge receipt of emails I send him with pictures. I think he was a victim.

The corrosion on rotors is not out of tolerance and blade balance is not an issue since the paint is being replaced not added. I thought when I initially sanded the corrossion off and it was still hopping on take off that I did have a balance issue, but after discussion with Bayard I serviced the oleos and a lot of that went away. I found the oleos hadn't been serviced and some were empty of gas and one was frozen and hard to cycle. All great now. After I still had a little hop I thought I had to get the blades tracked until I bought the damper bleed tool from Enstrom and WOW difference between night and day. I've had to bleed several times now to get all the air out. There are no leaks so it must be trapped air from almost never being serviced, even after the lamiflex bearings were replaced just before it was delivered to me. Prior to me bleeding the dampers the right way it never flew so smooth. Not 7 years ago when I first flew it, the time I flew it before purchase, and the day of delivery after the lamiflex bearings were replaced and a claim made that it was balanced to .1. It wasn't. I still think I want to buy a PB3 and permanently mount it to have an ongoing analyzer of vibrations, but that is down the road. I may have to have the tabs adjusted a little also since there is a little bit of cyclic feedback.

I am not using the zinc phosphate based primer on the rotors just on surface areas where the existing primer, obviously not a good job, has flaked off. All the research I have conducted is that the zinc phosphate has replaced the zinc chromate. The aircraft paint shop on the airport, which is part of a very anal shop that works on high dollar corporate aircraft doesn't use zinc chromate, they use zinc phosphate based primer. The same stuff I am using is available from Aircraft Spruce, look it up. Rustoleum Self Etching Primer and Dupli-Color Self Etching Primer. Both used by the RV builders for years. The corrosion on the support tubes is not pitting I think it is more stain than anything else, but it needs to be touched up. I think the grease and grime that has never been cleaned off in 7 years just ate the primer away.

So with that information you can see that all is within spec and all is within legal and safe bounds..again thanks for your concern but with the help and guidance of all the folks on this forum, my A&P, Bayard at Enstrom, Roger Sharkey at Sharkeys I think I am at the best I can do since nobody around here knows Enstroms except the one that screwed it up for 7 years. I wish I had someone close. I know Olivers, who previously owned this helicopter is out of business, but I have spoken with the owner and the one after him and they are near Chicago. I am hoping to make my way up there this summer and let them look it over. At near 6800 total time on this helicopter I think I'm in the running for having the highest hours for a privately owned Enstrom. Maybe not, but the books sure show this one has been around.

lvflyer,

It sounds like you are in good hands. Best of luck, once you get her all spruced up post some new pics of the old girl and your adventures.

She is all back together and so far after runup and one flight no problems surfaced. As requested pictures have been posted, click here Entrom

Normal oil temperature
 

I think I have asked this before, but maybe not. I can't recall all the responses. What is the normal oil temperature for a 280C hovering in 80 degrees and 80% humidity? My GEM starts flashing at 230, but stock gauge isn't anywhere neer red. Does the GEM need to be adjusted so it isn't flashing at that low temp? Also has anyone had experience with the Airwolf Chiller, a set of cooling fins for the oil filter. I think a lot of the benefit depends on airflow so how can I get more airflow to the front of the engine? The other Airwolf option is to install the remote oil filter adapter and place the oil filter in a cooler location. Suppose to get 30 to 60 degrees of cooling and a lot more efficient than the auxiliary oil cooler from Enstrom.

CO280FX Regarding your previous post about Enstrom doors. Can you describe the Velcro Bandaid a little more? I can't get the latch lined up and I've had the opportunity to experience the door flying open more than once, even once in a practice autorotation. Very unnerving. Also with your experience can you or anyone else give me some guidelines on oil temperatures that are normal for 77 280C. I just finished my first annual switching to Phillips 20WX50W and with 80+ degree and high humidity around here I'm still getting a warning on my JPL EDM 700 when climbing out with left quartering wind that flashes starting at 230 and goes up to 235 before starting to come back down when I level out. Do I need to adjust the alarm limit on the EDM? Is that a normally expected operating temperature with these conditions? I don't think it is so drastic around here to warrant the auxilary oil cooler, but what about using the Airwolf Chiller Airwolf Filter :: Oil Filter Chiller after relocating the oil filter or redirecting more air to the filter?

Due respect to you! Interesting photos, especially the "professional" application of gobbets of red silicone,trying to hide the leaks.

Console yourself, If he was the best, just how bad were the others? :eek:

You seem to be on the ball and researching the best methodology and an understanding of materials and technologies before jumping in.
I had a friend with a full professional auto paint and body-shop who repainted his Cessna 172 after a bare-metal strip and engineers' inspection.
The prop got several coats of 2-pack black, which was stoved in a low-bake oven......It was amazing how quickly the paint eroded back to bare metal on the leading edges of the blades. IIRC he used blade-tape after another repaint and resolved the problem.
Your MR blades certainly look neglected. the previous owner was obviously a "Cheque-book flyer" otherwise, instead of just tossing money at it, he would have found some of the horrors you have uncovered....... keep at it, you should wind up with a really,really good machine....you deserve it :ok:

Thanks for the encouragement cockney steve. It's been a tough road, but I think I have most the kinks out. I still haven't gotten my order from the paint shop yet. Sean just decided not to reply to me anymore and I can't get what I need from Aircraft Spruce. I just really cringe at the idea of blade tape at this time. I read too many horror stories and with the weight of the blades as they are with lifting tape it is a handfull to say the least in flight. Urethane is suppose to be a really tough coating for the leading edge. It is two part and suppose to be really resilient. We'll see.

No paint stands it :{

http://www.arl.army.mil/www/pages/374/AHS_68th.pdf

http://rain-sand-erosion.com/PDF/enh..._AHS_paper.pdf

Good info for desert dwellers, but all I have to deal with is bugs here in corn country.

Oil temps
 

I still haven't gotten a response to my high oil temperature issue. What is the normal operating temperatures I should see on a 280C in high 80 degree and high 80 humidity at 1450 TIT? Should I adjust my JPL oil temperature warning more like 240 than 230? Oh I changed to Phillips XC 20W50.

240 is on the high side for normal running but ok for a warning level. Check everything is OK - oil coolers not blocked with grass etc. Check your mixture settings too.

I dont like repeated 'false' warnings from an engine monitor - they get switched off and ignored. If your engine wont run below 230 (some wont!) even though everything is right set the limit to 240 then if something does go wrong you'll get a warning you take note of.

If you're serious about understanding your engine - and I guess you are- google John Deakin's Pelicans Perch articles on AVweb. There are a lot of irrelevant articles but the engine management ones are gold! They approach engine management from a fixed wing perspective but the knowledge can equally be applied with care to helicopter engines too.

IVf, look at Robo blade paint problem,not talking about dis-bonds but paint erosion. Not just desert dwellers.
Not found any paint that lasts on leading edge, re painting numerous times just tends to screw T&B

Use the new 3M blade tape that is glued on. It is very good. Look at service letter 172.

oil temps
 

I found a new auxiliary oil cooler in surplus stock for $500. Can someone send me some pictures of the auxiliary oil cooler installation, especially pictures of the oil lines and where the cooler mounts on a 280C. Enstrom wants $1400 for an oil line. I may have a qualified oil line manufacturer around here for a lot less. It would be great to get the temperatures 20 to 30 degrees lower.

It's all most as if manufacturers don't want customers, some of the prices are just robbery
And quality is not that special either

500, it's helicopters... If I find something that's under $5k I think it's like Christmas morning lol.

yep supposedly new in box although the box is opened. Problem is the illustrated parts document has a rough drawing of the auxiliary oil cooler system and no clear pictures of where it mounts or exactly what the hoses look like. Enstrom engineer told me on Facebook that some of this model didn't run cooler than 230 and 240 was a good warning point. Seems really high to me.

Has anyone heard of a storage box mounted on the skids or underneath? I have seen them for R44's & rotorways but not come across one for a 28F

One more thing. My pilot door blew open on a flight and I lost my fuel dipstick. Can one of you measure your marks and let me know so I can make one. It's still a mystery why my 1977 280C doesn't have sight glass in the tanks.

New EN480B-G
 

This looks very nice


First Enstrom 480B-G goes to New Hampshire pilot | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry :cool:

Check flight North of England.
 

I need a new LPC. Is there anyone in the north west of England can do one? Just type ENF28.

Thanks.

Ray Jones is your best bet, actually he might be the only bet! There is a lack of current Enstrom examiners in the North UK at the moment since Bill Bailey retired and Norman Bailey has stopped as well. If you need Ray's details send me a PM.

One of the few schools still doing type ratings in the UK is Shoreham Helicopters Ltd we can complete type conversions and Skills tests, plus Proficiency checks.
Regards
Tim:D

Bill and Norm had a third pilot working with them (Collier?) - was he an examiner on the ENF or instructor only?

Looking like the end of an era for Enstrom in the UK. Such a fun aircraft to fly.

Howard Collier was an instructor for the Manchester Helicopter Centre not an examiner, not sure he is still instructing since Bill & Norman closed. Very sad for Enstrom

LPC ENSTROM 280
 

HI Gaseous.
LPC ( now Proficiency Check) no problem, have sent you PM, I come up north fairly often, or happy to meet you somewhere.
Have sent you PM with my contact details , or contact me at Gloucester EGBJ
As Tim has said only a few schools in UK now Providing TYPE Conversions on ENSTROM 280 SERIES.( OR ENSTROM 480 SERIES)
As far as I am aware
ENSTROM 280 series, its only TWO, Shoreham Helicopters and Staffordfordshire Helis at Burton on Trent.
ENSTROM 480 series, its only TWO, Shoreham Helicopters and Heliflight Gloucester.

I provide AB INITIO TRAINING at Gloucester, Swansea and Pembrey but happy to accommodate PC or Skills Tests at most locations.

As far as Enstrom 280 Examiners, I only know of, myself, Tim Price, Al Gwilt and Leon Smith, - but there could be others

regards Ray

ray

Tim Price
 

Tim did mine on G-SHRK at Shoreham. Great guy!

Enstrom
 

My apologies for IVFLYER for not being able to respond sooner ...I've been away working ... actually flying an Enstrom 480B at the South African, AAD air show at AF base Waterkloof, then on a USA holiday. The massively de-rated C20W engine easily coped with the 5000 feet airfield elevation plus a 90 degree daytime temperature. Three displays a day for the period of the show and as good a week's flying as I've ever enjoyed. If interested there's a couple of cockpit mounted videos and a 'ground to air' of the Enstrom and the MD530F display sequences posted on You Tube and possibly FB.

I also flew the Safomar Enstrom FX crop sprayer and it was good to see the old girl neatly decked out in working clothes. Unhappily we experienced an incorrect mixture engine failure 800 feet over Pretoria, but as we all know ... something of a non-event in the type.

Many of the 28C/280C versions I've flown seem to suffer high engine oil temperatures after a prolonged period of high power and low air flow as in a climb or hover. Like the Schweizer 300, the factory have available a second cooler which is fitted in series as per the service instruction. It is normally mounted right side in a 5 o clock position to the air filter. Fitment drops the temperature by around 20-30 degrees and I've always taken the view that two coolers are essential for training or when the ambient is circa 80 degrees plus. But in constant hover mode, it is important that the number one unit is routinely checked for matrix blocking. Some airframes had coolers fitted with manually removable 'butterfly' flaps for hand removal of debris. (eg grass) It's a simple retro fit.

Talking to the new Enstrom CEO at Waterkloof, it seems with the new Chonquing ownership, the Menominee factory are heading for greater manufacturing capability and sales. The forthcoming 180 trainer being the first new model to appear, so no need to start forecasting a factory demise. Rather the opposite I feel.

Just to confirm dear Ray Jones at Monmouth is always prepared to be the wandering minstrel for Enstrom type checks plus of course my good mate, Tim Price down south. You won't find two nicer or more type knowledgeable guys. Leon Smith at WAP is type approved too. I'm always happy to help or fly with existing or new Enstrom owners with some pre-LPC familiarisation flying or specialist auto handling. (to date I'm up to 5,500 'skids-on' practice autos - just two for real!) PM me or look me up on the internet.

So retirement or not, I still rate the Enstrom marques highly ... good looking, reasonably low operating costs, quiet, great handling, even greater autorotation capability, ultra safe, wide roomy cabin, dedicated 100lb capacity luggage locker, 85lbs fuel burn per hour giving 100 mph in the cruise and as we all know, the type can be trimmed to fly 'hands & feet off' ... I often wonder why people buy anything else !!! Hard hat firmly on.

Best wishes from an Enstrom COF. Dennis K.

Enstrom
 

Oh and I forgot .... the original two 40 USG capacity fuel tanks always had the transparent 'boiler' guage for external fuel contents readings. Usually marked 60, 120, 180 and 240 lbs. The problem was that in service the transparent strip became opaque over time so many simply got painted over. Contact the Steve Payne Roberts Enstrom support engineer. He'll send you a standard wood 'dip stick' on request. Or make one yourself using your own graduations! Safe flying. Dennis K.

For a video with internal and external shots of Dennis Kenyon flying the Enstrom 480B in his usual spectacular way, at AAD 2014 in South Africa, click on the following Youtube links

Well done Dennis, hope I can fly like that in my 80s

Short version, with music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Im_kN2r5-s

Long version, with just heli sounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_grWBb20TNg

Nice display Dennis and the weather looked perfect.:ok:

AFB Waterkloof
 

Thanks Tim & Others. Yes the wx was superb for the AAD air show. Quite a few novelties though. The crowds were queuing at the gates for entry to the show at 06.30 hrs. My first display was for 08.45 hrs. And the air force ground crew were a tad wary of the opening 'Pirouette' manoeuvre thinking I might scrape a hole in their new tarmac, so the fire guys flooded the lift off position with foam!

And a big AND ... Waterkloof is a whisker under 5000 feet ... mid day temperatures circa 90 degrees, so shades of my Salt Lake City faux pas! Hopefully none of us make the same mistake twice but since the display machines were the MD530F, 630 SHP C30 to be followed by Enstrom's highly manoeuverable 480B, the resultant DA was well within the types handling.

Air Shows are big in South Africa. I'm told the daily attendance was circa 35,000 with a show total of 130,000! I'd have to say one of the ... if not THE most enjoyable flying week of my career. Best wishes to all pps. Dennis K.

Superb flying skills and knowledge.
 

Hello Dennis, I have been following this thread for some time,I think the guys who follow forum this are extremely lucky to have your knowledge at their finger tips. The point of writing is I can kick my rear that I.missed your demonstration flights at the air show , your flying ability is amazing that machines becomes part of you.

Dennis,
Can you elaborate on your engine failures in the piston Enstroms. I think from reading your posts here and elsewhere you've had two. You reference a mixture issue but what exactly did it turn out to be that time(and the other for that matter). Can you tell us also the resolution of the failure and where you put it down at?

I recently bought an Enstrom 280C and am going over it now bringing her up to excellent condition so am looking to learn all I can about them. I did own one nearly 30 years ago but didn't really get into the mechanical part of it so much back then. I do remember the oil temp running near redline and it being very hard to start when hot(had the impulse coupling mag). Also had a lot of issues with T&B but this time around I'm hoping to have a different outcome by knowing more!

Thanks!