There is a large shortage of R22's in the north west. (or a shortage of people willing to let them to the flying schools to wreck them)

If you are prepared to let a school use them i know schools that will pay £115.00 + vat wet per hour

In the south there's a shortage of R22s for training - I keep being asked to buy one to put on the fleet for my operator. But the leaseback rate won't go above £90/hr. Sure - the machine will work 200-400 hrs pa but I can only see £15/hr profit in my figures. (And I would have to pre-book private use by some notice because of the workload.)
Better rates for R44 (£150/hr) - but less demand.

R22 Governor improvements
 

I have just finished putting together an improved governor for an R22, it works in much the same way as the original governor but it is load sensitive, i.e. it monitors the position of the collective and changes the PID values in the primary feed back loop as required.
The result is a governor that responds a lot faster and is more accurate, This system is yet to be flown but I have done some extensive bench testing using data collected during ground runs and routine flights.
The platform which this is based on uses a dedicated micro processor and has nothing to do with Mr. Gates (probably going to be reliable), it has a great deal of additional capacity and there is no reason, with the addition of a few extra sensors, (technically) why additional features can not be written into the software i.e. engine monitoring (fadec) and power checking.

What I am really looking for is some advice.

1. Is there anyone who may be interested in pursuing this?
2. Is there a market for this type of technology?
3. What does the certification process involve?


Regards
Jiff

As long as it can stop overspeeds, I'm all for improvements !

Jiff,

A couple of things.
__________________________

1/
You may be interested in the following posting from rec.aviation.rotorcraft, dated September 25, 2002

"I am building a Safari (Baby Belle) helicopter here in New Zealand.
Also, I have written a detailed document on how to convert the Robinson R22 Governor for use in the Safari helicopter. This MS-Word document, including detailed pics of the control board and modifications, can be downloaded at: http://www.bart.gen.nz/safari/governor.doc

And last, you can reach me personally by email on:
safari (at) bart.gen.nz (To stop spam.. Please replace (at) with @ :)"
___________________________

2/
In response to your questions, I am definitely interested in your governor controller. My two helicopter projects entail the use of a governor; preferably a rotor governor, or a combination rotor/engine governor. A couple of pages on my web site, which may be of interest, are; http://www.synchrolite.com/Governor.html and the more esoteric http://www.unicopter.com/0575.html.

The UniCopter is being designed for a small 4-cylinder Lycoming, similar to those used in the Robinson R-22.

The SynchroLite is the basis for looking at the possibility of producing certified blades and a certified collective device. These two components can then be used by others to build twin-rotor helicopters. These twin-rotor helicopters could be coaxial, intermeshing, interleaving or side-by-side. The symmetrical configuration combined with a governor (for automatic entry into autorotation etc.) should greatly increase the safety of very light helicopters.

The very light helicopter consideration is to produce RH & LH asymmetrical blades where four of them can support gross weights between 500 and 700 pounds. This will allow them to be directed at the US Ultralight (no license required), the US Experimental, and perhaps eventually at the US Sport Plilot/Aircraft and the European JAR-VLR categories.


Dave J.
[email protected]

jiff
 

i think it would be handy on mustering machines, the govenors always overridden on them, although i cant see anybody spending money to upgrade when its probably not as fast as the trained wrist.;)

R22 power drain
 

I've been thinking about the neoprene tailrotor delta hing bush that is an up grade on the R22 helicopter, it seems to hinder flapping of the delta hing.
I recon that in forward flight, flapback of the tail rotor would be reduced, therefore increasing the amount of power used for antitorque and fuel consumption.
any thoughts?
:eek:

Theoretically your concerns are correct, but don't worry about it the resistance offered by the bearing is negligable in comparison to the aerodynamic moments generated. Therefore, there will be virtually no difference in the flapping characteristics of the orginal metal bearing and the new elastomeric device. Correspondingly, the power differences will also be negliable.

CRAN

Related trivia
 

One of the Bells had an elastomeric or spring on its main rotor teetering axis. The objective was to reduce out-of-plane motions when the disk was unloaded, and/or, to give the craft a slightly faster response to cyclic inputs.

Additional information on this can be found at Rotor - Hub - Hub Spring

Dave J.

To significantly reduce the power drain, eliminate the whole tail rotor. :eek: :D

Jiff:
An interesting project, but a couple of pointers.
You will need to do some pretty detailed testing of the system, from hardware to software to get this approved by the necessary authority as an STC.
Also, you'll need to show some sort of benefit to the end user in order to convince them to purchase it.
Not going to be cheap or easy to do either of those.
Have you done a business case on this?

Some other thoughts- how about for homebuilt helicopters? Can you modify this for any other engine? Might be more of a market than for R-22?
The real issue I think for the R-22 market is that of insurance. Can you still get Robinson to issue insurance for a modified machine like this?
Have you checked with Robinson to see what they say? They might be interested in taking it on.
Not wishing to rain on your parade, but the hard realities sometime need to be faced.

R22 Overspeed II - "The Bill Arrives"
 

Some of you may recall my minor contre-temps in June or July where I oversped an R22 before getting airborne from Popham ( incidentally in a machine not long back from being repaired after a previous overspeed ). The previous thread is here.

All the votes are in, and the matter is now resolved and behind me. For those who are interested or those who care, here's the final tally.

Total engineering bill : £12,000

Insurance excess : £2,000

My bit of that : £1,000

Extent of damage : None at all

I CHIRP'ed the occurrence, and had useful feedback. It appears RHC's thought is that engaging the governor at 80% means the whole range of governor operation is checked. The UK CAA have asked them to consider changing the procedure to increase RPM to 100% then engage the governor.

As an aside, now I've formally started the CPL(H) modular course, I have started using the club-supplied checklist which modifies the RFM procedure in this regard. I've also started pulling pitch to lift, pausing at about 18" to check everything is ok including RPM stable ( i.e. the governor is working ), then continuing the pull to come to the hover.

Overall, it was an expensive lesson in distraction.

And in best marketing tradition, keep your eyes peeled for the bigger-budget sequels, "B206 The Hot Start" and "Turbine Engine OverTorque" coming to a helicopter near you sometime in the ( hopefully distant ) future.

Glad that you have sorted it out, and it sounds as though you are fairly comfortable with the result despite a £1,000 bill. A lesson to all of us, and top marks for being honest.

One question; no damage, yet £12,000 overall bill. How on earth did they get there?

Time and NDT I guess.

CRAN

I read your published CHIRP report, well reported.

G

I have just glanced back through the previous thread. What is going on here? Is the governor part of the control system of the aircraft or is it "optional" like an autopilot?

If you learn to fly an R22 with a governor will you be able to fly a piston helicopter without one? Endorsement "piston only with governor".

Can you fly around in a turboshaft helicopter with the governor off as an option? Would appear to me that it's like in some countries where you do your driving test in an automatic that's all you are allowed to drive.

I know how the R22 had all the problems and the lawn dart results in the early days - just looked - over 20 years ago when I first flew one. Not naming any particular place but the incidents of radio transmission reporting accompanied by the tones of a Low RRPM in the background were alarming.

Can't help thinking that this governor is an unfortunate fix to a problem that can't really be blamed on the manufacturer. This has been statistically proven without doubt.

In experienced hands the R22 is a safe helicopter - the opposite is exactly the opposite.

I still have serious doubts about anyone actually learning anything whatsoever about helicopter flight in an R22 that can be meaningfully carried through to other types currently in production. In my opinion the aircraft was built to a design standard and that is all - nothing more - and that is what you pay for - simple. Don't complain. Mr Robinson cannot be held up for what he has done - more power to him - just don't expect anything more than you have paid for.

Remember a lot of other earlier types were built to the same standards but nobody really knew what they could safely get away with so there was plenty in there just in case. With the R22 we have evolved to a point of - now we know. We don't have to put in that excessive stuff - we just have to meet a standard - and that's what you get. Plain and simple.

It is of concern that current trainees are not able to experience some of the margins that were inherent in earlier aircraft.

2 Bob's worth and unfortunately a sign of the times!

Draco :

Apparently the book says the engine has to come out and the blades have to come off for NDT if the exceedence is over 116%. I guess off the top of the scale is that . . .

John :

In the R22, the governor was originally non-existent ( I think ) then added as an option then standard kit and retrofitted to all aircraft when they went back for rebuilds ( I seem to remember, someone correct me if I'm wrong ). Certainly in the UK, with only the R22 on my licence a 5 hour conversion course to other piston types w/o governor would suffice. I have about 6 hours in a H300, and the RPM control using the throttle was starting to get much easier so it's not difficult.

John,

There is indeed a problem if people learn to fly a helicopter with a governor, and never practise flying without one. Having had an expensive overspeed incident myself, I then did several hours training in the R22 with the governor switched off, and I now monitor the RPM constantly - just as well, last time I flew I switched the damn thing off with my sleeve three times!!!!:eek: They should do something about that switch - but that's another story. Anyway, I think everyone should do a fair amount of governor-off training.

However, your doubts about learning anything in an R22 that can be carried through to other types??? What exactly do you mean? I learned on the R22; I've flown other types, though not a huge amount yet. But if there were any major problems, neither I nor any of the instructors have noticed them.

I've read your post several times, and I'm really not sure exactly what you're getting at.

Whirly,

Thats a noted problem by RHC and all new build R22's and R44's have a 'stiffer' switch than was originally fitted.

CRAN

In my humble opinion I think that it is the position of the switch and the type of switch that is the problem. A toggle switch (regardless of its stiffness within reason) on the end of the collective is just too easy to inadvertently operate when the pilot moves his hand from the collective to somewhere else. Considering that unless it malfunctions the governor will be switched on at the beginning of the flight and not switched off until you have landed I can't understand why it isn’t a guarded switch.

Not a dig at what you said Cran just my opinion:

I think that fitting a stiffer switch is a very poor solution to this issue.

Maybe just maybe if it is switched off, or fails in flight there should be an audible warning that you could cancel if you wanted, or had to continue the flight without it on. Just a thought.

This isn't to disagree with anyone nor to be interpreted as a Robbie supporter... just for info. Most of the (10+) R22's I've flown have been fitted with the optional Governor-off light, I can only remember the Alpha not having it. I know it doesn't help in overspeeds but it may help with the accidental switching.