Ch 7 news said that the pilot had radioed to advise of a warning light in the cockpit. Eyewitness said there was a loud bang but no fire, and bits fell off it.

How many warning lights are there in a Robby? One for the generator not on line (not likely to cause an accident), one for the clutch light - if it drove too tight it could snap a belt, or if it disengaged you lose revs or go into auto.

But it sounds like the rotor hit the tail boom. Not a recommended practice. Very sad for F. and his student and families.

A very sad day. I have great memories of him as my instructor.

A great pilot, person and a tragic loss.

Condolences to family and friends.

Warning lights in a R22:

MR Chip, TR Chip, Clutch, Starter, Low Fuel, Alternator, Governor Off...

Quote on news tonight was "exploded and spiralled towards the ground".

Also, they mentioned that last week the aircraft was in for "extensive maintenance".

It's never pleasant to hear news like this, and i suppose all we can do is learn from it and make it less likely to happen again...

And they still say its the best light helicopter on the market!! One crashed the other day in the states too, during powerline patrol, killing two persons. Makes me sad, sad, sad. They should be banned and scrapped. I don't think I've ever seen such "flimsy" parts on an airframe, and if I'm lucky I'll never sit in one again!:ugh:

r22 blades
 

Is it my eyesight or do Robinson blades take on a permanent curve after a lot of use

No, it can't be your eyesight.

Eyesight goes after a lot of ABuse.....:8

So which way do they curve then?

If you mean downwards when stationary, then I think that'll be due to the flexibility in the structure. The droop decreases when they are rotating due to centrifugal force, as far as I know (I stand to be corrected if that's wrong). I don't have bags of experience, but if I found them curving any other way I think I'd get the bus (and I hate buses).

Or, have I missed a very obvious rotary joke?

:confused:

A Tragic Loss
 

A Great man died yesterday, Fraser Shannon was a friend to many and will be greatly missed by all who have had the pleasure to have known him.

A great pilot and Instructor that the industry will miss, I trained with Fraser and was fortunate enough to have spent some time with him during the Major Bush Fires in Jindabyne N.S.W

We spent many a day saving lives during the fires and fraser was liked by all.

I believe the aircraft had just come out of the work shop and believe it had problems with blade tracking and balancing, sounds like the A/C fell apart in flight?

TO A FRIEND AND FELLOW AVIATOR I WILL MISS YOU. REST IN PEACE MY FRIEND...

:{ :{

Yes Fraser Shannon was a great bloke and a very thorough pilot and taught me a lot about aircraft navigation as I used to train with him when I was out at Bankstown Helicopters doing my CPL training.

He used to be a carpenter and as I understand built the Bankstown Helicopters hangers and I remember the day when he went full time as a helicopter pilot dropping his carpentry career.

Out of all the pilots there, Terry McGowan and Fraser Shannon were my favourite instructors to fly with because they passed on a lot of wisdom and skill. Unfortunately he has left behind 2 kids and a wife and I just hope that they will be able to cope in the coming years without too much pain.

And the uncanny thing is that when I was driving to work the other day, I heard Fraser's voice on 2WS, because he was advertising fundraising for Child Flight or Care Flight.....whereever he did his air-medical work (not sure).

Anyway Fraser old mate, you taught me a lot and I will never forget you. Also my condolences go to the 18 year old student that died with him. A very sad indeed.


RIP

Frazer is the one person who comes to mind with whom I would have most liked to have had a beer with sometime....even though I never had the opportunity to work along side Frazer, our paths still tended to cross regularly.

Frazer, aside from being a professional in his field, was just an allround genuine guy who always stood out amongst the backdrop of personalities that makes up our industry.

My condolences extend to family and friends and to everyone that had the privellige of knowing Frazer.

I met Fraser when I was doing my PPL at Bankstown Helicopters in 1999 - never flew with him, but always a nice, pleasant bloke to have a chat with.

Condolences to his family.

Cloud Nine Helicopters staff, pilots and students would like to extend their depeest sympathy to the family, friends, students(past and present) of the late Fraser Shannon; and the student pilot involved. An ab-initio student pilot teamed with a well-respected and experienced EMS PIC on a standard training flight... this can only be described as a shocking tragedy.

MAY THEY REST IN PEACE

The accident is currently under investigation by the ATSB, and as per company policy no further comment will be made. The support of the industry is greatly appreciated.

R22 blades
 

No joke DB Chopper ive checked a few pairs. they bend in the flat plane ie the leading edge curves backwards. what interests me is what is happening the the feathering axis as the blade takes this rearward curve.

from the Sydney Morning Herald
June 21 2003 [quote]
Student pilot, instructor die in helicopter crash

http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpi...oppercrash.jpgA paramedic is winched down to the crash site

A helicopter instructor with thousands of hours flying experience and a novice taking the controls for only the second time died in a crash in Sydney's south-west yesterday.

The helicopter, a Robinson R22, crashed about 8.45am yesterday near Warragamba Dam after taking off from Bankstown Airport. It had been serviced on Thursday.

The instructor, Fraser Shannon, 42, was a pilot with the Telstra Child Flight service based at Westmead Hospital, and flew trainees in his spare time. The trainee, aged about 20, was having his second lesson for a private helicopter licence.

Witnesses reported that the helicopter was in trouble shortly before they heard it crash. Police arrived in the bushland area about an hour later and sealed off the accident scene near the dam.

The coroner examined the scene and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau is also expected to be involved in the inquiry. There was no indication last night whether the crash was caused by a mechanical fault or human error.

The chief pilot of Telstra Child Flight, Terry Mortimer, said Mr Shannon flew medical equipment and crews to ailing newborn babies and ill children, as well as flying sick children back to hospitals for treatment.
Mr Shannon, of Tahmoor, was a very experienced pilot, with over 3500 hours of flying experience. He had flown his last shift for the medical service on Thursday.
"He was a good all-round bloke, sadly missed," Mr Mortimer said.

The helicopter was run by Cloud Nine Helicopters Pty Ltd, a company with six aircraft licensed to conduct charter flights. It also performed a variety of aerial work, including banner towing, aerial photography and environmental studies.

R22 POH Performance
 

I was wondering if anyone might be able to explain why the hover performance charts in the POH stop graphing at 12,600 DA and the operating limitation is 14,000 DA. The demonstrated hover controlability is on the graph @ 9800 DA. I was also wondering why they stopped at 9800. Any answers appreciated, including why anyone would want to be at those altitudes in an R22 anyway.:E

learning to fly a Robinson
 

Here we are lads. Learn to fly a Robbo on yer own, practice engine outs, blindfold landings etc. You name it - you can do it in this.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...stimulator.jpg

Is it just me, or could the picture have done with being a little bit bigger?

Learning to fly a Robbo
 

Sorry about the size Hilico. I think im reasonably good at making sims, but im really crap on this computor will have to get the missus to enlarge it , the picture that is

Which reminds me to ask : a few years ago there was a plan to open the UK's first "helidrome". It was going to be in Chiswick, London. Now - this was around the same time as "Tomorrow's World" was showing off a working heli-trainer that was a combination of hyraulicss and electronics. This thing would move around on a pad (about 20 metres square, it looked) and you could "fly" it. It had a collective and cyclic - but was more like a hydraulic supermarket trolley. If it flew too close to the edge of the pad, the electronics brought it to a halt.

So - what happened to this ? And is it all related to the machine above ?

At long last, someone has made the Robbo rain proof! Might even manage to keep the LH seaters feet warm in winter as well!

another " is it just me or ............."

could we not have some technical description of what it does or how it works ?

just a picture of a robbie on a stick doesnt tell me much !

e.g

1. where is it?
2. is it CAA approved? and can a hours dispensation be given on your ppl
3. what is the hourly cost?

just basic info might help a lot

i presume it is because you would have airspeed at 14000 , ie best ROC speed 53 kts, but you would not be able to hover,

the graphs show what has been calculated or demonstrated.

A helicopter on a stick!!!

Where does this end???
Amazing what people decide on putting on the other end of a stick, Optimist (the guy on the other end of a fishing pole), helicopter pilots, HELICOPTERS! :hmm:

Augusto SVH3
 

headsethair.

Have a look at http://www.usbusiness.com/helicopter/sim01.htm

The contraption you saw may have been the Augusto SVH3 training helicopter. a google search will bring up loads of information.

They have one of these trainers at Bankstown airport here in Australia. CASA will allow you to credit up to 10 hours on this trainer towards your PPL(H). Not sure about the CAA's or FAA's position.

Basically the helicopter (a single seater, piston engined, two bladed, semi rigid rotor) is as you describe attached to a "trolley" and you can bring it up to the hover, do turns and fly forwards/backwards etc within the confines of a perimeter. The instuctor has a hand held contol unit where they can control those vitally important things like engine power available and rotor rpm and I suspect do their very best to keep you working hard!!!!

Hope this info is of interest to you.

Fly Safe.

heli_spy

for the record I haven't personally had a go on one of these trainers

The thing in your picture is actually an R22 wreck that a guy in the Midlands has converted into a sort of theme park toy helicopter. It was at the Air Sports show at Telford last year and both Whirlybird and I had a go for £10 for about 15 minutes. The engine has been replaced by a pair of hydraulic rams that tilt the body in two axes rather like a full motion simulator. It is powered by a 4 stroke lawnmower engine that pumps up the hydraulics.

The basic idea is OK, but the concept has not been developed past a very iffy prototype. The cyclic has been desensitised to such an extent that you have to waggle it from side to side like stirring a big pudding just to get the airframe to respond - nothing remotely like an R22.

The guy uses it at events like country fairs and shows to give farmers a sort of self drive fairground ride. A simulator it is not!

Learning to fly a Robinson
 

Well! its quite obvious Muffin was not impressed with the STIMULATOR. It was never intended for hot shot fliers. One knows when one has a hot shot in the right hand seat because they tell you that just before they tell you what a load of !!!!e the machine is. But lets imagine you have never got close to a helicopter, you cant afford the hundred quid for a trial lesson, you dont even know about trial lessons, you never dreamt of sitting in a helicopter . Okay ,the control responce is not what you get in a 3million pound SIMULATOR but the general public never get near those anyway. The machine does exactly what it was intended for, it allows the public to get the flavour of flying a helicopter together with as much technical info as they can take in during the flight experience. As for being nothing like a Robinson, as it is a complete Robinson less its original engine and lifts and moves on all axis , how real does one have to get for a tenner a go.

Is it me or doesn't that sound like great fun for a tenner?

I've used it and it is great fun. It does have one important thing in common with the R22 and that is that the cyclic is incredibly sensitive once you get it going - you soon get the idea that small control input are the order of the day.

Chaps - don't criticise until you've had a go!

CRAN
:)

I wanna go! Where can I find it?

Will frank be offering to fit a lawn mower engine as an option in the future!

1) It's great fun
2) It's well worth a tenner
3) It bears little resemblence to flying a real helicopter

ASnd as Muffin's already told you, I speak from experience.

Hilico - Why? are you great fun for a tenner? ;)

Whirlygig

It couldn't be the 7 degree washout on the R22 blades could it?

bugdev :

I think you need to see an AME. The blades can seem to bend forward or backwards, depend on where you look at them from. Personally I think they're straight, just like most other helicopter blades.

R22 blades
 

Thanks for the feedback so far,but i have checked the set of blades i have spare, and they definately have a curve on them. when you consider the torque involved in spinning up around 30lb of blade in which there is a 2lb tip weight plus the forces induced when the pitch is increased it would not seem surprising for some distortion to take place after a couple of thousand hours.If my theory is correct then it follows that there should be an increase in blade thickness at about 6 feet out from the root.Iwill check this tomorrow. Is this possibly one of the reasons the blades have time limit on them?

Like Nr said: If these blades are secondhand and "bent", then you should be getting the appropriate info from the manufacturer to determine their servicability. This could save you from any grief.

Are you using a reference point to see the curve (ie have you measured it?)
Is the curve at the LE as well as the TE ?

Saw something somewhere (?!) recently that makes me think there's a heli sim at the "Star World" (??) leisure complex alongside the M6 at Birmingham.

Was up there a couple of weeks ago and planned to have a look, but time ran out.

Sorry to be so vague; can't remember exactly what I read or where, but it's some hovercraft like jobby? Anyone know any more?

RC

It looks great!!!! can't we turn EVERY robbo into one? Just think of the lives that would be saved!!:O

When you learn to fly a robbo, what do you do for the rest of the day:rolleyes:

learning to fly a Robinson
 

I recently purchased a book entitled "how to fly helicopters".just to be on the safe side, i tied the machine down on four corners just leaving enough slack so that i could get the skids six inches off the ground. my first attempt without the ropes resulted in a one eighty turn before i could flick to page two.(I find it damned difficult to hold the book). After a few goes , no problem, cracked this hoverin job. Question is, should i cut the ropes and go for it.