It is not a new idea that young pilots trying to build their hours get pulled into instruction to get there, it is a stepping stone.
In these parts they are paid peanuts and will be on their way as soon as they are able to get a better gig.
Too many ppl's will find themselves being taught by someone waiting for the next nappy change.
It isn't that they don't care, they just don't have the passion for it as it is a means to an end and the student does not get the greatest experience.
Some operators build their business on this model.
Stuff what helicopter you want to learn in, go somewhere where you will be taught by someone with actual experience and where there is consistency with whom you fly.
Nothing worse than getting a new face every time you arrive, something also very popular these days.

Robbiee
Imagine the situation that you start learning on a random aircraft that you really like the instructor (say a Enstrom or a Bell47 or whatever)
Sorry I did forget to quote the "J100 Flipiddy-Flop"
CC

Hargreaves

I pay day rates at my school ! If you come to learn to fly you book an instructor and aircraft for half a day 08:30 to 13:00 or 13:00 to 17:30 . I have found that way the student gets an unhurried amount of lessons , it just works better all round

That certainly sounds like a better way of doing things. down south the instructor only gets paid when the engine starts. trouble is there are plenty of 'old timers' (ie over 60) instructing for a hobby, or people with 'proper' jobs, and that keeps wages depressed for everyone else.

Those old timers and proper job side gig teaching guys are the best instructors though.

I disagree that the old timers or 'proper jobbers' are keeping the instructional wages low. A proper jobber is likely to be paid between £400-£700 for a day rate and irrespective of what they are flying, are less likely to work for say £50 per hour/£250 per day. They may not need to instruct between proper jobbing but if they do, they probably want to be paid according to their experience and/or worth.
If they do need to instruct between proper jobbing then it's probably not a proper job!

If the instructor wages are to increase to a good standard then the aircraft hourly rate must increase.
Well done to Hughes500 for paying a respectable instructor rate. More schools should follow.

Well, all I know is all the SE UK schools pay around £50 per flight hour and there are a lot of instructors who do it as a "hobby job". either they have other "non-flying" jobs (IT/property etc) or they work offshore in flying/airline jobs etc

While instructors are happy with £50 per hour, schools have no incentive to pay more

There is nowhere that will pay £400-£700 per day for an R22 FI

in 2007 an R22 FI got £45 per hour - about 18% of the cost of an hour in an R22 (£250)

in 2023 an R22 FI gets £50 per hour - about 12% of the cost of an hour in an R22 (£400)

ie the cost of the aircraft has increased, yet the FI pay has reduced, not only in absolute terms, but even more in real terms too (ie accounting for inflation)

More bull****.

Not BS, Go ask the schools in the SE UK what they pay R22 FIs and then come back here.

50 quid is 5 pounds more than 45 Hargreaves. So your decrease in absolute terms point is hard to follow.

Also if Hughes 500 tells his pay rates, it would be respectful to assume that he is lying…

FIs are like any other job: Some are a bit duff, others very professional, irrespective of remuneration. The problem for new students is that they can’t tell the difference because the FI can do lots of things the student cant and BS is initially odorless.

yes, you are correct, it's not a decrease in absolute terms, but given schools pay pretty much the same as 16 years ago.... with inflation over 16 years...now FIs should be getting about £75 per hour, not about £50

this is one of the many reasons why there are fewer and fewer people doing the FI(H) course

I don’t think many would disagree that the general Ts & Cs in civilian flight instruction leave a lot to be desired. But it is also clear that few organisations or flight instructors have the leverage to do much about it.

I agree. If offshore paid crap, nobody would do it.

And if flight instruction paid £80,000 a year, loads of people would be going into it.

Like most things in life, it all comes down to money.

As I said the trouble with flight instruction there is always an "old timer" or a "part-timer" who doesn't need the money and just wants a hobby, or a young chap desperate for hours, and this depresses wages.

Why would I lie ???? I have just taken on a new FI, his pay rate is £ 150 for half a day full day is £ 250 to go to £ 250 and £ 400 a day when not restricted . If you dont believe me I will PM you his personal phone number. Currently I have lots of work

As a side note it really gets my goat that instructors aren't paid more, after all what industry other than ours has the new guys teaching the newest. That in my humble opinion is why we see such a degradation in training standards. Example for you did an assessment ( I am an examiner )on some guys wanting a PPLH skills test.. They had never done EOL's to the ground in fact hadnt even done an auto with the engine set at idle ( instructor didnt think it was a good idea ) hadnt done stuck pedal landings, never turned the aircraft to look behind before transitioning away. Didnt know what a power check was before doing a recce of a confined area. I could go on

Maybe it's different at your school, or different "up north", but in 20 years in this industry I have never ever heard any school pay a day rate for R22/R44 instructors. A salary...maybe (around £30,000 these days), or a monthly "retainer" and an hourly rate on top, but this is for permanent full-time FIs.

My apologies, that is the 2nd daft typo I had overlooked. It should have read disrespectful. I completely accept that what you posted was true. Why wouldn’t it be?

As to your experience of students never having done certain exercises, I had the bizarre experience of doing type renewal requirement training with an FI who was not allowed to do autos or any other “emergencies”. In fact, type renewal training with less experienced FIs has left me goggle-eyed more than once.

£250 a day, presumably a working day is 8 hours, so £31.25 an hour.
Not exactly get rich and famous money in modern, inflationary terms.
And is that guaranteed or must the instructor suck it up when/if there is no flying to be had?

Bell Ringer
Instructors are self employed, if there is no flying then yes no pay but normally they are then on ground school with the students and on the same rate of pay.