'Best' helicopter to learn to fly in....
Thread Starter
'Best' helicopter to learn to fly in....
I'm looking to get my PPL (H), and I'm interested to get the views on which is the best helicopter to learn to fly in.
The closest training centre to me is about 5 minutes up the road and they have R22s and R44s to learn in. However I've been told that the Cabri G2 is a much safer, easier helicopter to fly - that would mean travelling for 45 minutes or so to get to a centre that has those, but is that a better option? I've also heard some people say that if you learn to fly an R22 you will find flying anything else easy!?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
Mark
The closest training centre to me is about 5 minutes up the road and they have R22s and R44s to learn in. However I've been told that the Cabri G2 is a much safer, easier helicopter to fly - that would mean travelling for 45 minutes or so to get to a centre that has those, but is that a better option? I've also heard some people say that if you learn to fly an R22 you will find flying anything else easy!?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers,
Mark
Depends if you're goal is to stop at a private license. If you wish to develop as a commercial pilot and an instructor, then you'll probably have more success with the Robinsons, as there are far more of them around. Why don't you take a trial lesson in all of them ? See what you like best. They'll all be fun, that's for sure ! Good luck.
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The Robinson 22 v Cabri argument normally comes down to cost. The Cabri was designed with the r22 shortcomings in mind but it also isn't without it's pitfalls.
Go for a school with at least two helicopers of the type you learn on for a smoother learning experience.
If you are taught in the r22 then the transition will be easier to the r44 and then onto a jet ranger/505 or r66.
If you are taught on the Cabri then the only similar bigger machine is the airbus series of machines starting with the 350 or h120.
Otherwise you are into more niche machines like gazelle, bo105 and maybe the older pistons like the bell 47 or the turbine allouette.
For your training purposes fly the cheapest machine, you might save enough doing that for a type rating into a jet ranger or a 350.
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The absolute best helicopter to learn to fly in, is the cheapest one you can find. Its the same license no matter which model you choose, so why pay more for it?
That being said, I have zero regrets learning to fly in an R22!
That being said, I have zero regrets learning to fly in an R22!
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Mmm.. not really.
I have known people who get their PPL on a Cabri, then they want to fly a 4 seater (to take people up) and its taken then 15+ hours to get used to the R44! (ie an extra £8,000)
Even the transition from the R22 to the R44 often takes more than the 5 hours for new ppl holders
The R22/Cabri is fine if you just want to diddle around the local area with 1 passenger, anything more than that (ie going somewhere in comfort/speed) and the R44 wins, so in my opinion it's best to do your PPL on the R44, so there are no extra costs after the PPL
the
I have known people who get their PPL on a Cabri, then they want to fly a 4 seater (to take people up) and its taken then 15+ hours to get used to the R44! (ie an extra £8,000)
Even the transition from the R22 to the R44 often takes more than the 5 hours for new ppl holders
The R22/Cabri is fine if you just want to diddle around the local area with 1 passenger, anything more than that (ie going somewhere in comfort/speed) and the R44 wins, so in my opinion it's best to do your PPL on the R44, so there are no extra costs after the PPL
the
Gosh that 5 minutes sounds attractive. And is that 45 minutes a real 45 min, or 45 min on a good day with the wind behind you? Real life gets in the way sometimes, and you can be amazed how much time a "1 hour" lesson can take.
It's good advice to visit the schools and see how you like them, and to check the fleet size so you have good availability.
All factors to be taken into account as well as the helicopter type.
It's good advice to visit the schools and see how you like them, and to check the fleet size so you have good availability.
All factors to be taken into account as well as the helicopter type.
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If you can fly a Hiller you can fly anything..... 
If you intend to fly commercially, you want something that is used commercially, and is cheap. The insurance companies don't care what the hours are in and it can be the scruffiest out there (as long as its safe of course). However, companies do care if they are faced with converting you on to something different.
Now, as to the title of the thread, the best one to learn in is the Bell 47...... but that's another thread.
If you intend to fly commercially, you want something that is used commercially, and is cheap. The insurance companies don't care what the hours are in and it can be the scruffiest out there (as long as its safe of course). However, companies do care if they are faced with converting you on to something different.
Now, as to the title of the thread, the best one to learn in is the Bell 47...... but that's another thread.
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In that case I would recommend the R44. It is less twitchy than the R22 and has 4 seats. Costs less than a turbine.
The Cabri has an advantage, because it is a more modern helicopter than the Robinsons, but with the resent events in Switzerland and the US, I am not that sure, it is the saver helicopter. It is certainly more crashworthy. Still a great helicopter to learn in. But for a privat pilot, the R44 is ideal.
I liked the H300, too and Bell 47 is the classic ship to learn anything in.
The Cabri has an advantage, because it is a more modern helicopter than the Robinsons, but with the resent events in Switzerland and the US, I am not that sure, it is the saver helicopter. It is certainly more crashworthy. Still a great helicopter to learn in. But for a privat pilot, the R44 is ideal.
I liked the H300, too and Bell 47 is the classic ship to learn anything in.
Cabri use in the UK seems to be declining, so if you get your PPL on a Cabri....you could end up struggling to find a school that operates one
Go R44. It's fast, comfortable, takes 4 people, relatively affordable, no extra post-PPL costs, and there are tons around.
Go R44. It's fast, comfortable, takes 4 people, relatively affordable, no extra post-PPL costs, and there are tons around.
The R22 is best by virtue of being the cheapest and most available for training, if you're not too heavy for it. It takes a lot of hours in practice to be ready for PPL (more than the minimum) so the money really adds up. The Cabri G2 is roughly twice as expensive as the R22 and thus so are the training costs. In fact it's very close to the price of a base R44 Cadet.
The G2 is for sure safer than the R22/R44 or Bell 206/505 just by virtue of having a fully articulated rotor instead of semi-rigid, and a fenestron, but in practice accidents almost always have nothing to do with the rotor, especially when flown with a competent CFI.
The G2 is for sure safer than the R22/R44 or Bell 206/505 just by virtue of having a fully articulated rotor instead of semi-rigid, and a fenestron, but in practice accidents almost always have nothing to do with the rotor, especially when flown with a competent CFI.
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I found it was a significant advantage to learn in something I could later use (taking family and friends up say), which for me meant the 44. There is a lot to be said for 150 hours of familiarity with one type, especially for someone who is always going to be low time.
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"The G2 is for sure safer than the R22/R44 or Bell 206/505 just by virtue of having a fully articulated rotor instead of semi-rigid"
Don't think so somehow. It's certainly not safer than the 206, which doesn't get ground resonance. Fully articulated rotors do.
Don't think so somehow. It's certainly not safer than the 206, which doesn't get ground resonance. Fully articulated rotors do.
Mmm.. not really.
I have known people who get their PPL on a Cabri, then they want to fly a 4 seater (to take people up) and its taken then 15+ hours to get used to the R44! (ie an extra £8,000)
Even the transition from the R22 to the R44 often takes more than the 5 hours for new ppl holders
The R22/Cabri is fine if you just want to diddle around the local area with 1 passenger, anything more than that (ie going somewhere in comfort/speed) and the R44 wins, so in my opinion it's best to do your PPL on the R44, so there are no extra costs after the PPL
the
I have known people who get their PPL on a Cabri, then they want to fly a 4 seater (to take people up) and its taken then 15+ hours to get used to the R44! (ie an extra £8,000)
Even the transition from the R22 to the R44 often takes more than the 5 hours for new ppl holders
The R22/Cabri is fine if you just want to diddle around the local area with 1 passenger, anything more than that (ie going somewhere in comfort/speed) and the R44 wins, so in my opinion it's best to do your PPL on the R44, so there are no extra costs after the PPL
the
Anyway, I don't know about the UK, but its certainly cheaper to get your ppl.in the 22, then get an additional 10 hours in the 44 for the PIC endorsement, than doing it all in the 44.
,...but hey, if you've got stacks of money burning a hole in your pocket, sure, go with the 44 from the get go, lol.
I honestly don't know why anyone would choose the Cabri if their goal.is to fly family and friends around?
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone! Quite a mix on answers but I think the majority seem to say go for the R22 over the Cabri. The next thing to decide is whether to do blocks of lessons or individual hour long lessons.....
R22 PPL:
65 hours x £400 per hour = £26,000 ...+ six hour R44 rating (at £600 per hour) £3,600 = £29,600
(but...will you get the R44 rating in just 6 hours?, and how comfortable in it will you be for taking pax?)
R44 PPL:
60 hours x £600 per hour = £36,000
(R44 is a bit easier to fly hence you get your PPL in fewer hours)
65 hours x £400 per hour = £26,000 ...+ six hour R44 rating (at £600 per hour) £3,600 = £29,600
(but...will you get the R44 rating in just 6 hours?, and how comfortable in it will you be for taking pax?)
R44 PPL:
60 hours x £600 per hour = £36,000
(R44 is a bit easier to fly hence you get your PPL in fewer hours)
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