The entire ‘thing’ is the china virus. From the way the CCP let the virus spread around the world, to the overbearing government incompetence displayed reacting to it, to the corruption of the entity’s suppling an unproven ‘vaccine’, to the incompetence of the media reporting, to the corruption of government censorship trying to cover up their incompetent handling of the whole thing as is now being disclosed via Elon Musk releasing the Twitter files. The whole thing is the ‘China Virus’


:hmm:

That's terrible jayteeto. Really sorry to hear that.

Can we get back to side effects please, or we'll be kicked off to Jet Blast... and given the valuable personal accounts that would be a great pity.

Jayteeto,

Sorry to hear of that as It does seem quite an over reach.

In the early 70's while in my prime during my Class I Flying Medical exam for the US Army I was diagnosed with what was called "Idiopathic Dilatation of the Left Pulmonary Artery" and I was referred to a Cardiologist at the Base Hospital.

After some interesting tests, X-Rays, and Fluoroscope routines....including a Barium Swallow of some radioactive dye.....which some Idiot got in my stead....thus necessitating a second visit to get mine done.....I sat for two weeks worrying about what it all meant.

When the final Consult was had.....the Doctor looked at me and "Yes...your left pulmonary artery is enlaged....forget about it....go forth and go live a fully normal life.".

It was never mentioned again over the. next thirty years of flying physicals.

Torquetalk, you may not have noted though as demonstrated via an Australian Senator there are still pilots who are being forced to take the ‘vaccine’ or lose their job. The whole subject is up for debate.

Yes, I noted your example. And of course it is clearly wrong if true as presented. There are four approved Covid vaccines in Australia. If you don't want an mRNA one, there are two others using more traditional vaccine methodology.

Why does anyone need a vaccine ?

Because it stops you getting covid and transmitting the virus.... oh no, hold on, it does neither :ugh:

Well if you're going to be silly and troll FB, expect replies like the one below:

They live amongst us!

Jesus wept….

It might be, but in my case I initially thought I was possibly having a heart attack, for unknown reasons. As I wrote above, it was only later that I realised that wasn’t the case and that my symptoms went away after some weeks and one further trip to A & E in the interim. At that time it proved next to impossible to see a GP.

Flying Binghi, In one of your messages you have an extract:

"The Australian government should be urgently investigating the “incredibly high” 13 per cent excess death rate in 2022, the country’s peak actuarial body says".

You have a link to an apparent news item on this, but the link hardly looks mainstream. If accurate, news like that would be all over the place. Any other links? You might be implying, but not saying, that this 'excess' relates to vaccine side effects?? Is this what you fear?

Side effects, including fatalities in worst case, from at least some COVID vaccines have been made public since early in the pandemic. As [email protected] had also already written, for most people where I live, they have decided the risk(s) related to vaccines are outweighed by the benefits of preventing the worst effects of COVID itself. The 'excess death rate' from COVID itself wouldn't be trivial in some countries, but I haven't searched for the stats. Perhaps you can do that and share them with us?

Why would you expect it in the mainstream media?

Neither is Twitter, look how that worked out

Says the guy who got 3 shots and still got covid

Well we can agree on that...

Der - it doesn't stop you getting it - it just minimises its effects

helicrazi, you have been given the reasons why people still chose to be vaccinated. They are valid and reasonable. If you don’t accept the reasons, that’s up to you. If you are possessed of a different bigger understanding, good luck. Meanwhile can we get back to real evidence of severe side effects from Covid vaccines. Which vaccines, which side effects; credible accounts or credibly reported real research, not fringe journalism.

By the way, did you know that the “big pharma” behind the Pfizer mRNA vaccine was actually a virologist couple who had been working on oncology treatments using mRNA technology for ten years? Not big pharma at all. Pfizer is just the partner company because the developing company (BioNTech) weren’t big enough to produce and distribute the vaccine. Your assumptions in at least this respect are quite wrong.

Now you are confusing mrna technology and the covid vaccine. The virologist couple did not invent mrna technology but they were developing it in their oncology field.

Out of interest, how soon after did you go running and what was the advice given at the time of the injection?

Sorry about your career.

Read Torquetalks reply and you will see he doesn't claim they invented mRNA technology at all

No, I’m not confusing either types of vaccine or who invented mRNA. These are layers of meaning you have added. I said that the virologists were behind the Covid mRNA vaccine, which is completely correct. They turned their mRNA research into a Covid vaccine which was the first to be approved. Moderna got approval for its mRNA vaccine subsequently.


If you want to have a smart arse discussion about Covid and the vaccines and how we are all being taken for fools, take it to Jet Blast. There is a thread there for that where your line of argument has been kicked into the dust many times. You are not adding anything of value here.

helicrazi

I believe this aspect of all the possible discussions around this is a distraction from some valuable personal contributions from other Rotorheads. A propos, I’ll quit discussing this with you.

Ok back to side effects.

What I'm seeing is pilots at my company going for boosters and being floored, many inexcess of the 48 hours no flying duty restriction.

When you say floored, do you mean they have a normal immune response to the vaccine - this varies massively with the individual - or actual serious side effects like heart problems?

Each of us is different and that includes our immune systems so reactions vary from nothing, through a sore arm for a day (which is what I had from the last booster) to flu-like symptoms for a couple of days - all completely normal.

And don't forget it is flu season as well. There are lots of non-Covid bugs, coughs and sneezes going around at the moment.

Maybe the "vaccine" packing insert can shed some light on the subject.

https://media.gab.com/system/media_a...6136a89567.mp4

The Devil's Advocate.

Caution that these results were "Exploratory" and data base issues exist. Taken from Jim's linked article.What can we conclude then from our EXPLORATORY analysis:

• Quote:

  ---

  Clearly the surge in Covid-19 and its effect on excess deaths shows the vaccines are not effective. This looks self-evident and this isn’t news.
• There is no evidence to support long-covid as a cause of excess deaths.
  
• There is weak evidence of the negative effect of lockdown measures (see the video).
  
• Healthcare quality looks to be irrelevant, but we are not satisfied we have good metrics for this.
  
• There is a clear signal that the vaccination programme is causing, at least, some of the excess death rate. With this data the vaccines don’t look to be safe.

  ---

The findings of that "data crunch" require two conditions to be fulfilled:

a) A number of vaccines were developed, tested to Stage 3, found to be effective and approved.
b) All of the vaccines were subsequently found to not only be ineffective, but they actively caused more harm than the disease itself

Is that believable?

B - yellow card system, over double the vaccine injuries compared to covid deaths.

The research is complete junk. They don't even distinguish between vaccines. How can anything useful be said if the data review doesn't even attempt such obvious elementry control? And the next question is, if they haven't controlled for elephant in the room variable 1, what other confounding variables are going to relegate this to the back of the class for research?

Concern about possible under-reporting or monitoring of side effetcs is one thing. Exrapolating the conclusions they reach on the basis of such weak nominal data, without even attempting to control for obvious variables, is really bad research.

This isn't mutton masquerading as lamb, it's baked soil pretending to be a shepard's pie.

Whilst I applaud your outrage, it begs the question why such strong views were not deminstrated during the initial roll out when they couldn't demonstrate any meaningful data?

Here is yellow card injury data which is estimated that only 10% is reported.

As of 23 November 2022, for the UK, 177,925 Yellow Cards have been reported for the monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Pfizer/BioNTech, 246,866 have been reported for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 47,045 for the monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna, 52 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Novavax and 2,130 have been reported where the brand of the vaccine was not specified.

For the monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Pfizer/BioNTech, COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca and monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna the overall reporting rate is around 2 to 5 Yellow Cards per 1,000 doses administered.

In the 28 days since the previous summary for 26 October 2022 we have received a further 2,499 Yellow Cards for the monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Pfizer/BioNTech, 228 for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 1,099 for the monovalent and bivalent COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna, 15 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Novavax and 154 where the brand was not specified. The increase in reports for Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines is due to the bivalent vaccine use in the national autumn booster campaign. Our review to date of suspected adverse events since the launch of the campaign has not revealed any new safety concerns.

That's 474,018 injuries reported, if the gov are correct in their 10% reporting estimate, that's an estimated 4,740,180 injuries.

And currently we have 178,397 deaths within 28 days of a positive test. Keep in mind that if you died in a car accident within 28 days of a positive test, guess what...

Estimated 4,740,180 injured vs 178,397 'covid' deaths...

Sorry to hear that. My case very similar to yours but I did manage to get my Class 1 back (albeit with a multi crew limitation from another pre existing condition). However, not long after I decided I wasn’t quite fully recovered and that it was about time for me to hang up my headset.

Since day one of Covid there has been an on-going argument over data reliability and commonality of definitions that was relevant and significant and continues still.

Torque skipped over statements made within that linked Study where they clearly called it "Exploratory" and noted in black and white the problems pose by how the Data was compiled and submitted by those participating in the reporting of data to authorities and also how authorities different in their standards.

So all ya'll pointing fingers back and forth....grasp the fact there is very little concrete un=arguable and unchallenged data/analysis to be had.

Thata compounded by the virus itself being moving target itself is going to cause ambiguity.

I would supplest you temper your posts to reflect that and politely differ.

I have long questioned why I am mandated to take a vaccine that does not prevent me from getting Covid, does not prevent me from giving it to someone else or prevent someone else from giving it to me.

I took the vaccine as I am at riak and the value of the vaccine seemed to outweigh risks.

Certainly, I am wondering had I known of this newer information at that time....would I have taken the injections.

Few things are certain in life....and we. have to make our best and informed decisions.

Add in the side effects thing and more and more data being developed over time that does raise legitimate questions about the effectiveness and side effects....then I can see the need for a healthy discussion about it all.

As in all things internet.....you have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I quoted the text contained in that linked article....and passed no judgement on it as it cited its own shortcomings as I read it.

Calling it junk seems a bit wide of the mark as it very much qualified its findings in clear language.

If you do not agree with its findings....that is fine....provide your own article that does.

Then sit back and see how your the content of your article fares.

Well I have to agree on the last point. There may be good reasons for it, but it does lead to a credibility problem, even if the figures are subsequently adjusted to take account of other known death quotas. Unaccounted excess death per million indicate that Covid has indeed been a big killer. Note that WHO has been revising deaths due to Covid upwards, not down. Are we not at 20+ million worldwide at this point?

Your quotation is missing this important bit from the same source:

"Part of our monitoring role includes reviewing reports of suspected side effects. Any member of the public or health professional can submit suspected side effects through the Yellow Card scheme. The nature of Yellow Card reporting means that reported events are not always proven side effects. Some events may have happened anyway, regardless of vaccination. This is particularly the case when millions of people are vaccinated, and especially when vaccines are being given to the most elderly people and people who have underlying illness."

You mention a figure of 90% underreporting (only 10% reported). Where do you have this from?

You also began by claiming that there was no data for these vaccines before they went into distribution, but from the same source you have selectively quoted from there is this concenring one of the vaccines:
"The monovalent COVID-19 Vaccine Pfizer/BioNTech was evaluated in clinical trials involving more than 44,000 participants. The most frequent adverse reactions in these trials were pain at the injection site, fatigue, headache, myalgia (muscle pains), chills, arthralgia (joint pains), and fever; these were each reported in more than 1 in 10 people. These reactions were usually mild or moderate in intensity and resolved within a few days after vaccination. Adverse reactions were reported less frequently in older adults (over 55 years) than in younger people."
The results of the clinical trials concerning the other vaccines used in the UK are also published.

Shy,
As with Jayteeto, truly sorry to hear that happened.

same webpage that you just quoted:

Don’t wait for someone else to report it

It is estimated that only 10% of serious reactions and between 2 and 4% of non-serious reactions are reported. Under-reporting coupled with a decline in reporting makes it especially important to report all suspicions of adverse drug reactions to the Yellow Card Scheme.

world deaths are apparently 6.7 million, not 20 million +

so world deaths vs world population 0.08% death rate

I am merely pointing out that is obviously duff research. I am dismayed that the discussion can be mislead on the basis of something this weak.

As to you repeated the claim that there was no meaningful data at roll out; which meaningful data would you have liked to seen? Data demonstrating effectiveness in preventing infection? Or data demonstrating prevention (or significant reduction) of serious illness or death; data demonstrating prevention or reduction in transmission; or data concerning side effects. These are all different areas of research and require different data, whilst the questions surrounding them and references to Covid vaccines are all jumbled up. If you look above, the answers to one of those questions is in clear text from a source you quoted.

The data I'd have liked is the same that any other vaccine ever brought to market would have had to go through, these things take years with good reason.